FYI Good article on DEF head failures

[Rich-MLsRV]

I found this article very informative on DEF head failures

 

[Neal]

Great article, thanks for sharing.

 

[Old Bubblehead]

I especially enjoy the part that provides the email address for the folks in leadership at Cummins that don't want to petition the EPA for the RV community.

If you’d like to share your thoughts with Cummins management, here’s a list of folks at Cummins. We’re told they are all aware of the DEF sensor nightmare.

Vice Chairman: Tony Satterthwaite – [email protected]
Chief Executive Officer: Tom Linebarger – [email protected]
President and Chief Operating Officer: Jennifer Rumsey – [email protected]
Chief Financial Officer: Mark Smith – [email protected]

 

["EZ"]

Cummins can pass the buck all they want saying that they don't produce the DEF parts so it isn't their problem but here's the bottom line.............Since 2010 emissions laws were passed Cummins (and every other diesel engine manufacturer) can not sell their engines unless their engines pass the 2010 emissions. This means that without the DEF (or some other emissions solution) Cummins could NOT sell their engines. So, unless Cummins wants to stop selling
On-Hwy diesel engines they are responsible to make sure that the DEF system is working. BTW..........Caterpiller chose the wrong technology and couldn't meet 2010 emissions so they DID have to stop selling On-Hwy diesel engines. I can't see how Cummins can say this isn't their problem with a straight face. The Federal Government says differently. Also, if this isn't Cummins issue then why did they spends hundreds of millions of dollars to develop the DEF system so their engines would meet the new 2010 emissions? It wasn't Spartan that spent the research and development money it was Cummins.

 

[Neemer]

I especially enjoy the part that provides the email address for the folks in leadership at Cummins that don't want to petition the EPA for the RV community.

If you’d like to share your thoughts with Cummins management, here’s a list of folks at Cummins. We’re told they are all aware of the DEF sensor nightmare.

Vice Chairman: Tony Satterthwaite – [email protected]
Chief Executive Officer: Tom Linebarger – [email protected]
President and Chief Operating Officer: Jennifer Rumsey – [email protected]
Chief Financial Officer: Mark Smith – [email protected]

The General Counsel needs to be on that list. That’s the person holding the reigns.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

I found this article very informative on DEF head failures

Well-written article with an excellent explanation of the issues involved. I was unfamiliar with this publication, but have now made a “contribution” to it and will be a regular reader. I invite anyone who also discovers this publication through this article to join me in doing that.

TJ

 

[Neal]

After thinking on this a few hours, I'm not sure I'm on board this is a Cummins issue. Or more specifically, it's not their responsibility. Cummins provides the "leads" for the sensors, starters, etc. Take the case of TJ's engine shutdown issue. Is that a Cummins problem or whomever attached the components to the engine such as the Chassis manufacturer?

In the case of the DEF system, Cummins has the engine and after treatment configuration. The DEF tank and DEF sensor, who owns this? Cummins or the chassis vendor? Cummins has the interface for the sensor to talk with the Cummins system but the sensor system could be outside their boundary of responsibility. This is why in hindsight, after reading the article which puts blame on Cummins, I'm not sure I agree in the end. Thing through everything that attaches to the engine and see if all of that falls under their responsibility.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

After thinking on this a few hours, I'm not sure I'm on board this is a Cummins issue. Or more specifically, it's not their responsibility. Cummins provides the "leads" for the sensors, starters, etc. Take the case of TJ's engine shutdown issue. Is that a Cummins problem or whomever attached the components to the engine such as the Chassis manufacturer?

In the case of the DEF system, Cummins has the engine and after treatment configuration. The DEF tank and DEF sensor, who owns this? Cummins or the chassis vendor? Cummins has the interface for the sensor to talk with the Cummins system but the sensor system could be outside their boundary of responsibility. This is why in hindsight, after reading the article which puts blame on Cummins, I'm not sure I agree in the end. Thing through everything that attaches to the engine and see if all of that falls under their responsibility.

Well, to be clear, these kinds of issues are a study in finger-pointing! I have asked Newmar, Spartan and Cummins who is responsible for correcting the engine shut-down issue we are experiencing. The clearest answers I have received to date are (1) “it depends” and (2) “we don’t know, but it isn’t us.” When pressed on the “it depends” answer, none of the three could (or would) provide an answer to “What does it depend on?” This is frustrating, to say the least.

As to the DEF head issue, I didn’t feel the article author “puts blame on Cummins.” Rather, he says an argument can be made that since Cummins selected the DEF solution, spec’d the equipment to be used to resolve its emissions issue and controls the related software, it should also be responsible for helping resolve the current DEF head problem with a software patch.

Personally, I think that is a reasonable expectation. And, I think the same “reasonable expectation” could also be laid at Newmar’s door since it selected the K3 chassis as the only choice for the Mountain Aire line. Last in line is Spartan, in my estimation, since they had no choice but to use the emission control equipment spec’d by Cummins and don’t have the choice of using the software “patch” unless Cummins provides it.

YMMV

TJ

 

[CaptainGizmo]

This reminds me EXACTLY of my “argument” of the cruise control and engine brake issue! Talk about the run-around!

 

[Buly]

I wander if the military diesel vehicles are under the same EPA air pollution rules like the civilian ones? It will make them less reliable in combat if they are using the same DEF equipment.