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Bad Batteries?

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Thanks for your view/input. I can’t convince DW on solar, so unless something changes there it is not in my future. When I did ME-BMK on 2017, my cousin who has solar with lithium batteries tried to get me to go with Victron. He doesn’t have AGS on his 5er and I just couldn’t see need for redundancy. Getting ready to install ME-BMK on new coach and looking for different viewpoint. Very helpful.
 
Glad it helped...

I installed ME-BMK originally. It showed SOC, (State of Charge) and allowed me to reset the aH used counter so, that I could make a record of use over a period of time. This was very useful, both for future planning...but more importantly helping me decide how much solar to install.

I was flabbergasted to find...I could not use the ME-BMK SOC as a trigger for the ME-AGS-N, unless I also upgraded the remote from the ME-RC that came std. and the Advanced ME-ARC remote. So, I changed out remotes as well.

I’m not sure how much reading you’ve done...forgive me if you already know...but just to warn you. Magnum Inverters will attempt to ground themselves thru sensitive network devices if the NEG - lead to the Inverter is removed while the POS + is still attached. To prevent damage, whenever you need to remove cables from the battery, such as installation of the Shunt for a battery monitor...PLEASE remove the Inverter POS + lead first...and reattach it last. It’s easy to do by removing the cable from the 350A catastrophic fuse and wrapping the terminal carefully with electrical tape. If the inverter tries to ground itself thru the BMK, or AGS module...it can fry their brains...
 
Great option and easy mod to install a cutoff switch on the inverter line for this reason as well as others.
 
I may look at doing the cutoff at the same time as ME-BMK. I was able to remove ME-ARC from 2017 coach so I already have that. This will be second one so hope to improve on first install.
 
So yes, I turned the shore power off and then turned some lights on/off until I found the 20 amp draw I was looking for. (I suspect the inverter was 5-6 amps by itself.) I took a battery voltage reading off the meter, and then came back 4 hours later to take another reading. It' was just math from that point on although I'm going to go back down in a few minutes and get another reading as 4:45 will be the actual 6 hr mark.

Bad batteries?
I sent the data (that I had compiled over the last couple of days) to the manager of the store I bought the batteries from. He in turn, sent it to then manufacture. This morning I got a call from a representative of Crown Batteries. I'm not going to say he was rude, but he was quite direct and through a barrage of quickly asked questions, he determined (in his mind anyway) that the batteries were damaged because I was charging Flooded Acid batteries on the AGM setting.

I hadn't considered this. From what I've known about AGM batteries, they want to be charged with a lesser amperage so that they will charge slower. But I can't see how a lower amperage would damage a flooded acid battery.

At the end of the conversation, he offered to refund my money, which is good. (I hadn't asked.) But for future reference, and to make sure I understand as much as I can about batteries, does anyone feel his theory has merit?
 
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it’s a give or take...too much current you erode plates prematurely, ....not enough and you allow sulphate deposits to remain on the plates, robbing you of storage capacity. I’m not a battery engineer, somI just try my best to follow they mfg. settings.
 
it’s a give or take...too much current you erode plates prematurely, ....not enough and you allow sulphate deposits to remain on the plates, robbing you of storage capacity. I’m not a battery engineer, somI just try my best to follow they mfg. settings.
The other part of this story is that the batteries were in my previous coach, and the charger was set for flooded acid batteries. When I sold the coach, i moved the batteries to this coach, and they were only in this coach for 3 weeks. During this time they did nothing except sit there on float mode.

I told him this but he wasn't impressed. He also mentioned that the size of my battery bank was 860 ah and the charger probably wasn't putting out enough amperage to keep them happy. I can see how this might happen, but still not sure...
 
OK, I looked at the specs and my Phaeton has a 100amp converter, so I doubt it would have any problem keeping the battery bank charged. So I'm left to wonder, what would make 4 of these batteries fail in such a short time? :unsure:
 
In your first post, @Jim, you said you bought the batteries for your solar conversion project but now say you removed them from your previous coach. How old are these batteries?

These are big batteries...much larger capacity than used in most coach applications. I'm now wondering if the charging system in your previous coach was actually keeping them properly charged. If not, it might only take a relatively short period for them to sulphate up. Because of their large capacity, the undercharging might be disguised until serious damage was done.

Since it appears that you will be reimbursed by the manufacturer, this might be a good time to start afresh and engineer a new battery system that includes a charging system designed specifically for high-ampacity batteries.

TJ
 
In your first post, @Jim, you said you bought the batteries for your solar conversion project but now say you removed them from your previous coach. How old are these batteries?
Yeah, I guess that sounds a little contradictory, doesn't it?

I bought the battery's on April 2nd 2019 and put them in my first coach. As that was an older coach with no inverter, I bought a inverter/charger to maintain them and to use in the planned conversion. Link to the inverter here.

The solar conversion was originally planned for that coach., but after pulling some of the 8% grades out here, I decided i needed a DP over the V-10. So i took all the solar stuff out and moved it over to the new DP.

I guess it's possible that the inverter/charger wasn't keeping that batteries charged but I seriously doubt it. It was a good inverter/charger and should have maintained the batteries well.

In your first post, @JimI'm now wondering if the charging system in your previous coach was actually keeping them properly charged. If not, it might only take a relatively short period for them to sulphate up. Because of their large capacity, the undercharging might be disguised until serious damage was done.
Perhaps, but again, I doubt it. We were in a "rehab" state with the coach at that time so the coach remained stationary and the batteries never saw any use. They remained connected to shore power and should never have discharged enough to need the inverter/charger to "catch up".
 
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We were in a "rehab" state with the coach at that time so the coach remained stationary and the batteries never saw any use. They remained connected to shore power and should never have discharged enough to need the inverter/charger to "catch up".
Is it possible, then, that they were constantly being overcharged? I could understand one battery going bad in a relatively short period, but four going bad kind of points to some external cause.

Not trying to find blame here, but since the battery system in your previous coach was put together by you, I'm wondering if there was a mismatch between components. Engineering a 12 VDC system can be tricky and especially when retrofitting it into a coach that initially came with a different system.

TJ
 
Is it possible, then, that they were constantly being overcharged? I could understand one battery going bad in a relatively short period, but four going bad kind of points to some external cause.

Not trying to find blame here, but since the battery system in your previous coach was put together by you, I'm wondering if there was a mismatch between components. Engineering a 12 VDC system can be tricky and especially when retrofitting it into a coach that initially came with a different system.

TJ
I’ll be the first to agree that 4 batteries going bad at the same time is highly unlikely. To be honest, lately I've begun to wonder if they hadn't been damaged somewhere along the line, prior to my receiving them?

Attached is a diagram of how I wired them, let me know if something looks incorrect. The AIMS inverter/charger was brand new, but I guess that doesn't guarantee it is working correctly. But at the same time I installed the batteries and the AIMS, I also installed the shunt/monitor so I could monitor them, and everything always looked normal to me.

Except for 1 trip to the local campground, the coach was always connected to shore power, and on that trip, I made sure to monitor the batteries and to run my generator when the SOC started getting low. I tracked everything and kept detailed notes of it all. Upon return, we parked the coach and connected to shore power. And although I didn’t look at the monitor every day, I did check it from time-to-time, and it always looked normal.

When the new coach arrived, I removed the AIMS, the batteries and some other switches and wiring from the older coach. While the batteries were out, I tested each one individually (different charger) and that’s when I noticed each battery was slightly under 6 volts.

I took the batteries back to the dealer, he put them on his charger for a few days, and then called and said they were fine. I reinstalled them in the new coach, minus the shunt and monitor and that’s where they sat for several weeks. The coaches display always indicated a full set of bars so I assumed the batteries were charged and OK. To be sure I put a handheld tester on them and they always indicated a full charge.

Not long ago, I installed a solar controller in the basement but hadn't wired it to the solar panels yet. I turned off the shore power to watch the LED on the controller and I noticed the batteries were indicating a low charge. (Note: At the time, there was an electric heater in the coach which drew hard on the inverter/batteries.) I then hooked up the shunt and meter and started to run some tests.

And that’s how we got to where we are today. Probably more information than you needed but there you go. :) The batteries indicate a full charge until I put a load on them, and then they start to discharge abnormally fast.

So, I guess they could have been overcharged, but they’ve always been treated well when in my possession. Perhaps the store caused some damage when I took them back to be inspected? At the time I picked them up he told me that he had to “blast” them for a couple of days to get them to respond but that they were fine now. So maybe they suffered some damage at that time. All I know for sure is they were treated well while in my possession..

Let me know if the diagram looks OK to you.

Thanks!
 

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Is it possible, then, that they were constantly being overcharged?
All the above withstanding, the fellow I spoke with at Crown Battery seemed to think that the batteries were "undercharged", not overcharged. His feelings were that when the batteries were moved from the older coach (with AIMS charger/inverter) and placed in the Phaeton, that the Phaeton was set to charge/maintain AGM batteries, so over time, the Flooded Acid batteries were not getting charged.

My battery background pales compared to his, so who am I to say he's wrong? But I've never heard of that before. My understanding (when it comes to charging AGM batteries) is that they need to receive a slightly lower charge rate or they will get hot and can be damaged. But I've never heard that Flooded Acid batteries will suffer damage if charged with a slightly lower charge.
 
Well, @Jim, we've pretty much reached the end of my battery expertise. Maybe some of the other folks here will have some better answers.

Hopefully, a new set of batteries will resolve the issue for you. I know how aggravating a problem like this can be; after while it seems like every avenue is a dead-end street.

Good luck on resolving this.

TJ
 
Well, @Jim, we've pretty much reached the end of my battery expertise. Maybe some of the other folks here will have some better answers.

Hopefully, anew set of batteries will resolve the issue for you. I know how aggravating a problem like this can be; after while it seems like every avenue is a dead-end street.

Good luck on resolving this.

TJ
Well one thing is for sure, the batteries didn’t commit suicide and die on their own. Something got em, and it would be nice to know what it was before I subject new ones to the same fate. Hate to relive this same scenario again later.
 

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