Changing the Future of NIRVC Service

[NIRVC]

Greetings,

As questions, comments, private messages, posts, calls, emails, and texts have come in to me over the past 8 months since I first posted on this subject, I have attempted to respond individually as time has permitted. My responses have been spread across all those media. After @RedBaron’s post yesterday, I now feel it will be more efficient going forward if the topic of “changing service” could be consolidated into a single thread for comments, suggestions, and discussion. And, I will endeavor to comment when time permits. For example, I’m aware of several questions and comments about stocking parts, the ordering of parts, preauthorizations, etc., which I will comment on as time permits.

I’m a believer when you have a problem, you put the problem on the table so we all have a problem. For a those who are new to the discussion I first “put the problem on the table” in my next two posts here in this thread, when I responded to a post by a great customer of ours in Phoenix back in December 2020. I believe the next two posts sufficiently define the problem, and will serve as a good foundation of understanding for my subsequent, and future posts in tackling this problem.

If you suffer from insomnia, my posts will be here to help.

Onward,
Brett Davis

 

[NIRVC]

Defining the Problem-Post #1

The first step in solving any problem is… to admit there is a problem!

Below is a reply I posted to a thread titled “Frustration with NIRVC Phoenix,” which thread was created by a great customer of ours in Tucson. My reply was posted on 12/11/20, and I believe is a good starting point for what has now been millions of dollars invested, and untold man hours spent behind the scenes for the past couple of years, all in trying to solve the age old problems, and friction surrounding RV service. I also feel it lays the groundwork for all my posts to follow. Here was my post:

I’ll apologize up front for the length of this post, but there’s been 28 posts ahead of me. Collectively, that’s not a short commentary to address.

As an RV enthusiast of 36 years, a full timer for 7 years, and CEO of National Indoor RV Centers, I am posting to simply acknowledge we know we have a problem, and we are already several months, plus several million dollars into our solution to a very complex problem. From my vantage point the fix is not as simple as a call, or a text, or throwing more bodies at the problem.

I take the RVing experience and National Indoor RV Centers very personally, and so it saddens me greatly when AZ520 (the OP) had the experience he had with our Phoenix service center. However, it does not surprise me.

We are a data-driven company, and all of our data suggests we have two major problems in service--communication and timeliness. Neither of these problems are specific to NIRVC, and have always appeared to be industry-wide to me. Nor are they a result of our “growth”. The growth rates of our employees in service, our service customers, and revenue/service employee have remained in check since the opening our doors for business in late 2009. I don't say this to excuse the problem, but to put it in context these two problems appear to be very hard to solve. We fully own the problems of insufficient communication and delayed repairs happening in our service centers, but we are not resigned to live with these problems!

In an effort to understand why we have such a problem, we've diagramed our various types of repair jobs from retail-paid repairs (the simplest), to extended service repairs, to manufacturer warranty repairs (the most complex). The different types of repairs have between 62 and 88 steps, and involve between 10 and 16 employees. These steps include everything from gathering a VIN, odometer readings, diagnosis, parts quoting, repair approval/authorization, actual parts ordering, receiving, distributing, installing, recording, quality control, billing, etc. Every line item on every invoice has to go through these steps.

Even the simplest of repairs involves more employees than most people would think. Ever hear the jokes about how many people it takes to replace a lightbulb? Well at most large service shops it is not a joke, and the answer is 10. The guest (yes--you're part of the process too since repairs require approval after quoting), the service advisor, the Team Lead, the Technician, warranty, the parts orderer, the parts distributor we're buying from, the part receiver, QC, and of course accounting.

Everytime responsibility passes from one individual to another inside, or worse yet, outside our organization, it is an opportunity for miscommunication and dropped balls. Needless to say, there is a lot of opportunity, and a lot of dropped balls. As the business scales, communication becomes harder, and it takes more diligence to not drop balls.

If you take into account the number of steps and people involved in each repair, and couple it with the state of the software and systems in the industry, it exacerbates the problem. We have evaluated all of the major software used to manage RV dealerships and they all suffer from a common defect--they are designed to create an invoice; not to ensure that balls don't get dropped. They have no concept of a workflow, prioritization of work, who owns moving a repair forward at a given state, etc. Invoicing systems work for small businesses where the number of people involved is small, they are in close proximity, and are only dealing with a few repairs at a time. When the volume of work, number of people involved, etc, increases you really need a workflow system to ensure people are working on the repairs which are due the soonest (keeping our promise dates) while making sure steps aren't forgotten which will lead to delays (like actually clicking the order button on the part, or following up with an outbound email to a warranty company who hasn't responded). A workflow system can also fill a lot of the communication gaps by keeping our guests up to date with changes automatically--your generator is going in for diagnosis, your part is on order, your part has arrived, etc--thereby relieving our over-burdened service advisors from having to stay on top of every change in status with the customer. Think of the status bar when ordering a pizza from Dominos, but with more information and detail.

Except for isolated incidents, we are not viewing it as a people problem, but as a systemic problem. Over the years we have lost and hired many service advisors. We have paid top-dollar for experienced advisors, and we have experimented with inexperienced advisors. We have tried the best advisors out of the auto industry, and we have tried advisors from various relationship sales and technical sales industries. We have reduced the number of technicians per advisor from five, to four, to three, to currently three with an assistant. No matter how the people change, the two problems of communication and timeliness have plagued us, and ground our advisors into the ground.

Unfortunately, an off-the-shelf workflow system for the RV industry (or even one we can adapt from the auto industry) does not exist. Pieces of the system do exist, but must be integrated into our systems and business practices, all while not overturning the apple cart. It's like upgrading the engines and wings while flying the airplane. To this end, we committed to a very substantial investment in systems months ago, with the single goal of improving communication and reducing the time our repairs take. When I say substantial, I mean to a degree I do not believe has ever been undertaken by any dealer in the industry's history. So much so our banks, who work with other dealers, think our corporate IT spending is absolute madness relative to other dealers. And, our IT department is significantly larger than the IT department of any manufacturer we represent.

I understand this isn't a quick fix, and doesn't help our customers with the communications and timeliness issues they are experiencing today. I simply wanted to acknowledge we know we have a problem, we've dedicated serious time, IT staff, and money to solve these problems.

Let me define the solution for you as it was defined to our IT and Service departments when we approved the investment to develop a new system months ago. They were simply charged with delivering an automotive like experience, meaning a customer with a ten item repair order or less, should receive a same day turn around.

Some of you long time coach owners may consider us delusional, but much harder problems have been solved with systems. Look at what Walmart did, or even what Amazon is doing today. They did not substantially change their people to dominate their industries. They invested heavily in systems that didn't let people fail. Remember, no one had gone to the moon... until someone did! Service is what this company was founded on, it is the hub of our wheel, it is our heart. Doing what our competition can’t do, or won’t do, is exactly what has, and will once again set us apart from our competitors. As a company we must continue to improve what’s within our control, and work hard to improve what’s outside our control. If we don’t, National Indoor RV Centers risks becoming just like our competitors.

Onward,
Brett Davis

 

[NIRVC]

Defining the Problem-Post #2

Below is my reply to another wonderful customer’s post in the same thread titled “Frustration with NIRVC Phoenix.” This post, along with my previous post here, completes what I’ve had to say regarding the problem. My future posts will move on from here. Here was my reply posted on back 12/26/20:

Good evening Jim,

I hope you and your family had a Very Merry Christmas, and I want to wish you a prosperous New Year, and continued success in your business. Also, thank you so much for supplying our team with almonds and pistachios. I’m certain they enjoyed them, and we greatly appreciate your generosity.

Jim, I took four suggestions away from reading your post, and if I may, I’d like to “pull back the curtain” and share my thoughts regarding each of them.

First, like your business, time is money in ours as well. In spades as a matter of fact. When it comes to the business of selling coaches, our inventory is expensive, it has razor thin margins, it’s lumpy, it depreciates, it’s a discretionary luxury item, it’s an incredibly small market, and the confluence of all this makes for a very poor risk/reward ratio. From an investment perspective the only redeeming value of coach sales is it serves as a funnel for our service, storage, wash/detail, and collision businesses.

As a dealer, we have no control over the supply, or the demand of the coaches we sell. Manufacturers control the supply, which they notoriously overbuild in more years than not, and no one can escape the market’s gravity when it comes to demand. The only control we can hope to exercise is the mitigation of our risk through how quickly we turn our inventory, which is a function of supply and demand, neither one of which we control. Our sales operations are the epitome of “time is money” and speed equals less risk.

While our service operations pose nowhere near the investment risk as does sales, still time means money as well. Whether it’s factory warranty, extended service plans (insurance), or customer pay, we only get paid when the Repair Order (“RO”) is completed. And, it costs us dearly to have service coaches sitting on our lots in two ways.

The first way is the drain on cash, and I will illustrate this with our averages. Our RO‘s average 18 line item repairs. Once we’ve obtained the required authorizations (costly operational friction which doesn’t exist in the automotive industry) we then have a green light to proceed. Now, imagine if you will, what happens to us when 25% of the parts come in wrong and/or on back order for up to 7 months like the washer in my own coach? Neither the factory, nor insurance will pay for an RO which isn’t completed. Most of the time “customer pay” RO’s will pay for what service is completed, and then return when the remainder of their parts are in. The problem is 81% of our service labor and parts are paid by the manufacturers and insurance. However, we still paid our service, parts, and warranty staff, plus advanced funds to pay for the parts for the repairs we were able to complete. With the shutdowns, and subsequent supply chain disruptions created by the Pandemic, the cash required for our work in process (“WIP”) has exploded! Understandably, our customers become frustrated by not being able to use their coach, while we are equally frustrated by not being able to get paid.

The second cost to having incomplete service coaches sitting on our lots is capital. It’s a real “catch 22”! If we don’t bring coaches in to service, because we don’t have room on our lots, due to the unfinished repairs on coaches already taking up space, and consuming electricity while waiting on parts, then our technicians will have no work. And, our technicians are the heart of our company. They are what makes everything go. So, thanks to the Pandemic we are now forced to expand our lots, as well as not replacing coaches departing from storage due to health reasons or relocations, just so we can accommodate unfinished service coaches. I realize costs do vary across the country, however it’s currently costing us on average $350,000 per acre for concrete and the installation of 50 amp electrical service, plus the purchase price of the land at several of our locations. Plus, we were forced to forgo $1.2 million in storage revenues in 2020 just to make room for unfinished service coaches waiting on parts or authorizations. Again, time is most certainly money for our service operations!

As to your second suggestion of “harvesting” parts from our own inventory, in order to expedite repairs, doesn’t give me any “heartburn” whatsoever. In fact, because of how costly it is not turn coaches in for service as quickly as possible (see above explanation), we have always “harvested” parts from our own inventory if we didn’t have the part in stock, or it wasn’t readily available. It’s simply too costly not to! However, these are not normal times. And, we only sell motorhomes. Except for an occasional trade in, don’t sell towables. When it comes to motorhomes we take great pride in being the experts. It’s all we do! Now, I intentionally don’t want to be very precise here, but based on last year, plus the number of retail sold orders we currently have, we will easily sell well over 2,000 motorhomes this coming year. Yet, as of this very moment, we only have 18 unsold coaches company wide on our lots. If you do the math those 18 coaches will literally be sold within two days. Bottom line, we don’t have, and haven’t had since last March, any inventory from which to “harvest” parts.

Thirdly, the only thought I have to your suggestion of immediately commencing with repairs with the customer agreeing to be on the “hook” for whatever the manufacturer doesn’t honor under their warranty is... BE STILL MY HEART! Conceptually it sounds great! But, in reality it’s never worked for us. Not one time! And unfortunately, we have paid a lot of tuition for our education. Please allow me to explain.

So many things plague only the RV industry when it comes to providing quality coach service. Believe me, it’s frustrating, it’s irritating, and it’s mind boggling in this day and age. From the very costly friction of requiring authorizations, to no parts numbers which necessitates sending pictures, to a parts lifecycle of 2.5 years, to ordering a part (after receiving an authorization of course) from the manufacturer, who in turn orders from the very same suppliers we receive parts from daily, only to then re-box the part into their own labeled box when they receive the part, to then shipping it to us by ground, to sending the wrong part 25% of the time. Now juxtapose that to a coach which is out of factory warranty. We have on staff Parts Runners who spend their day driving to regional parts distribution centers picking up the parts we don’t already have in stock! And, I’ve just described only one issue (parts) out of the many issues plaguing the RV service industry. Now let’s talk about another problem, the one which goes straight to your point or suggestion. If we commence a repair without an authorization, both the manufacturer and the insurance company will deny the claim in total! Both those warranties will pay zero dollars towards the repair! Now, I don’t know how many coach owners feel like you do Jim, where they’re willing to completely forego their warranty coverages for expediency, but I suspect it’s akin to going to the hospital, signing the document stating you’ll be financially responsible, and then being floored when the bill comes in. Neither the hospital, or the insurance care at all about how upset you feel. But, there’s a huge difference in our case. We actually do care about how you feel, because we are in the business of making customers for life! Unfortunately, given the current stipulations of the various warranties, this is a course of action we simply can’t afford.

Your fourth suggestion of not keeping you in the dark, and to please just communicate the bad news to you, is actually something we believe strongly in doing. The issue here is not a reluctance to convey bad news, rather it’s us being bad at communicating, which is the very problem we’re investing heavily into solving. As I mentioned in my prior post, at the end of this project we want to deliver an automotive like service experience for our customers. If we succeed at solving this problem it will be a big win-win for both our customer, and our company by enhancing the RVing experience, while significantly increasing our competitive advantage. While I believe I adequately covered our problem, as well as the solution we are working towards in my prior post, I’ll refrain from repeating myself here again. However, I didn’t give any perspective to the scope of the problem in my prior post, so I’ll quickly do so here. Please read this post in conjunction with my prior post in order for it to make complete sense.

While we’ve reduced the number of technicians per Advisor from five, to four, to three, while also giving the Advisor an assistant, with all the parts delays and lack of parts availability, the number of RO’s per Advisor has grown from 80 to 120. By in large, those extra 40 RO’s represent service coaches waiting for parts. Now, let’s do a little math here. With 25 Advisors averaging 120 RO’s apiece, with an average of 18 repairs per RO, and each repair requires between 62 to 88 steps depending on the source of payment... our 25 Advisors are trying to shepherd through repairs while at the same time keeping track of somewhere between 3,348,000 and 4,752,000 steps at all times. And, that’s before they even think about calling and updating, or communicating with their 120 customers on a daily basis. If each call averaged just two minutes, that’s 4 hours a day. Four hours they’re not calling, emailing, and texting to push their 2,160 repairs to completion. Do our Advisors feel they provide the level of communication to our customers they would like to? Absolutely not! I live full time in a coach on our lot in Texas. I see our Advisors here before 6:00am when I go for my daily run. I also see those very same Advisors here night after night when I return from dinner with customers at 8:00pm and 9:00pm. Because of my unique vantage point, I believe our Advisors perform Herculean efforts on a daily basis right up to when they just burn out. Why? Because the industry doesn’t have, nor have we as a company equipped our Advisors with the tools necessary to really excel. But, National Indoor RV Centers is committed, and well into the process of changing that in a big way. To a man, or a woman, we are maniacally focused on the same four things we’ve always been focused on here at National Indoor RV Centers:

1. Being the best dealer in the nation as measured by value, customer service, and integrity. Remember, price is what you pay, value is what you get.

2. To continually improve the RVing experience for our customers.

3. Making sure “our hamburger tastes the same” at all our locations.

4. Making customers for life.

Now, to be certain, I don’t want my response to be taken as “woe is me.” 2020 was a very good year for our company, and from all the indicators 2021 looks to be even better, unless I just jinxed myself. However, 2020 was, and 2021 will be very much like having one foot in ice, and the other foot in boiling water. On average it is warm, but boy it sure uncomfortable. If this problem of service in the RV industry was easy, someone would have already solved it. The good news is, the deeper we get into solving it, the more confident we are we will solve it.

In closing Jim, I want to thank you for trusting your business to us. It truly means the world to us! Also, I want to thank you for your suggestions, and for your very kind words in your post my friend.

Onward,
Brett Davis

 

[redbaron]

I have two thoughts that are very expensive and expansive.

1 - NIRVC should create or aquire a warranty service company aka coachNet.

2 - NIRVC should become a parts distributor.

If only it was simple to do either of those.

The real problem with #1 is companies that write service policies (coachNet, Goodsam, etc) all contract the management of the policy to a 3rd party (there are very few of these) and they all operate similar to an HMO provider. They make money by not paying claims. So a customer oriented policy would be much more expensive (think PPO vs HMO). The costs could be managed by limiting to brands sold by NIRVC, that are higher quality. Still doesn't solve the dometic air or whirlpool appliance issues, but idea #2 addresses the parts availability

Winnebago used to manufacture most of its parts. They controlled quality, availability, design, etc. Companies like dometic are a cancer to the rv industry and the source of mant service related issues. Dometic continues to aquire innovative industries (fantastic fan) and then butcher the product and make a mess of the supply chain. Today, the option of controlling inventory will ease the burden of delays, but comes at a price that may not be offset by the time savings.

And none of this addresses the fact that x number of part numbers refer to a single item, and no central cross reference exists. This would require all manufactures agreeing to maintain a central database...and that will not happen.

The more a person digs into the rv industry, the more it makes you appreciate what Brett Davis is doing!

 

[Rad22]

While in general I am very pleased with NIRVC and my relationship with you, I will relate one disappointment I encountered with NIRVC-Atlanta last week.

One of the reasons I chose NIRVC as my dealer to order and purchase our brand new 2021 Newmar New Aire 3543 is your claim to be a one stop service facility that can handle virtually any problem that arises, without being sent to a subcontractor or other component manufacturer.

From NIRVC website: "The Service and Repair center at National Indoor RV Centers is authorized to complete work for all extended warranty plans as well as work under most original warranties for your coach's individual components..."

On the way from Charlotte to Atlanta for a service appointment for several minor new coach punchlist items, I noted that the outer rear tire pressures were not showing up on the in dash TPMS readout. I brought this to the attention of my service advisor who informed me that this is a Freightliner issue and that NIRVC is not an authorized Freightliner warranty service provider and that I would have to take coach to Freightliner for a fix. He also went on to inform me that they are an Authorized Spartan Service Center and could order the part and fix it if mine were a Spartan.

This situation seems counter to the spirit of the website claim. I realized that it says "most" original warranties, but excluding all Freightliner components from new coach (and I assume extended) warranty service at NIRVC seems a bit disingenuous. To live up to the claim, perhaps you should pursue becoming a Freightliner authorized service center.

 

[FLSteve]

I have two thoughts that are very expensive and expansive.

1 - NIRVC should create or aquire a warranty service company aka coachNet.

2 - NIRVC should become a parts distributor.

If only it was simple to do either of those.

The real problem with #1 is companies that write service policies (coachNet, Goodsam, etc) all contract the management of the policy to a 3rd party (there are very few of these) and they all operate similar to an HMO provider. They make money by not paying claims. So a customer oriented policy would be much more expensive (think PPO vs HMO). The costs could be managed by limiting to brands sold by NIRVC, that are higher quality. Still doesn't solve the dometic air or whirlpool appliance issues, but idea #2 addresses the parts availability

Winnebago used to manufacture most of its parts. They controlled quality, availability, design, etc. Companies like dometic are a cancer to the rv industry and the source of mant service related issues. Dometic continues to aquire innovative industries (fantastic fan) and then butcher the product and make a mess of the supply chain. Today, the option of controlling inventory will ease the burden of delays, but comes at a price that may not be offset by the time savings.

And none of this addresses the fact that x number of part numbers refer to a single item, and no central cross reference exists. This would require all manufactures agreeing to maintain a central database...and that will not happen.

The more a person digs into the rv industry, the more it makes you appreciate what Brett Davis is doing!

@redbaron ... everything you said makes good sense to me and I can even understand it!

And ditto to ... makes me appreciate what Brett Davis is doing!

FLSteve

 

[Chargerman]

While I am not as of yet a NIRVC customer, I wanted to chime in to thank you Brett for taking your valuable time to explain in detail the issues as your team see’s them and your approach to solving the issue. You and your team are going to where no man has gone before and I applaud you for that. You business model is one that the industry has desperately needed since its infancy and all current and future potential customers will certainly benefit from the efforts you and your company continue to put forth to significant improve the entire customer experience of motorhome purchasing and ownership.

Thank you!!!!

 

[Brett Davis]

While in general I am very pleased with NIRVC and my relationship with you, I will relate one disappointment I encountered with NIRVC-Atlanta last week.

One of the reasons I chose NIRVC as my dealer to order and purchase our brand new 2021 Newmar New Aire 3543 is your claim to be a one stop service facility that can handle virtually any problem that arises, without being sent to a subcontractor or other component manufacturer.

From NIRVC website: "The Service and Repair center at National Indoor RV Centers is authorized to complete work for all extended warranty plans as well as work under most original warranties for your coach's individual components..."

On the way from Charlotte to Atlanta for a service appointment for several minor new coach punchlist items, I noted that the outer rear tire pressures were not showing up on the in dash TPMS readout. I brought this to the attention of my service advisor who informed me that this is a Freightliner issue and that NIRVC is not an authorized Freightliner warranty service provider and that I would have to take coach to Freightliner for a fix. He also went on to inform me that they are an Authorized Spartan Service Center and could order the part and fix it if mine were a Spartan.

This situation seems counter to the spirit of the website claim. I realized that it says "most" original warranties, but excluding all Freightliner components from new coach (and I assume extended) warranty service at NIRVC seems a bit disingenuous. To live up to the claim, perhaps you should pursue becoming a Freightliner authorized service center.

Good morning @Rad22,

Thank you for your post! As I’ve said many times, I consider feedback a gift, and your post was certainly a gift. Upon reading your post, I immediately forwarded it to all our General Managers yesterday, and I have received their feedback. Low and behold, both Freightliner and NIRVC do indeed have issues at three of our locations. Since I’d rather sleep well than eat well, I’ve always erred on the side of full disclosure. Therefore, you may find my reply longer than you care to read, and I’ll apologize right upfront for starting at the embryo stage in this post.

When starting National Indoor RV Centers I felt we needed to nail it, before we could scale it. The business plan was far easier to write than it has been to implement. Trying to deliver seven different businesses (sales, service, storage, paint & body, wash/detail, Motorhome club, and Rettroband) in one seamless service, has had more than its fair share of challenges. We clearly haven’t “nailed it” yet. On a good day, we’re just the best of a very sorry lot, but we have managed to “nail it” enough to start “scaling it” by opening some new locations. Of paramount importance to us in opening new locations is our hamburgers MUST taste the same at all our locations!!! And, you’ve uncovered something for us with your post which both Freightliner, and myself thought was solved a couple of years ago.

When it comes to motorhome chassis, we are not, and we will probably never have the opportunity to become a dealer for either 1) Ford, or 2) Freightliner. The later has become a fantastic partner who works hard to please our customers. The former doesn’t know we (Motorhome owners, manufacturers, or NIRVC) even exist.

Yes, your TPMS problem is a Freightliner issue, and unfortunately, we are not a Freightliner dealer. However, based on our prior history with Freightliner, which I will discuss in more detail below, I can assure you Freightliner does care. Believe me, when you have a problem as a coach owner, as your dealer, I also have the same problem. And, I trust Freightliner will resolve the problem for both of us.

I’m big believer in competition! Without it, there’s no imperative for improvement. And, when there is competition, no part of the wheel is on top all the time. Up until 2017 we ordered 100% of our Newmar coaches on a Spartan chassis. Why? Because we’re an authorized warranty service center for Spartan at all our locations, plus we could control the quality of the service being rendered. Prior to 2017, the service rendered by Freightliner’s dealers was abysmal at best, but then something happened. Freightliner got a new President & CEO named Jeff Sather.

Jeff and his team requested a meeting with our team at our Atlanta facility. Jeff’s team started the meeting with a simple question; why don’t you order any of your coaches on our chassis? We told them we loved their chassis! Who doesn’t love the technology and features they’ve brought over from Mercedes and put in their chassis? Who doesn’t love their Drive Tech technology (everything is on the steering column)? Or, their V-Ride suspension? We told Freightliner our decision not order coaches on their chassis had absolutely nothing to do with their product, but had everything to do with their dealer’s pitiful service of us, and our customers.

For the next four hours we were unabashed in calling their sister ugly. Repeatedly! We laid out in painstaking detail every service issue we had experienced with every single Freightliner chassis we had dealt with across all our locations. We pointed out how brand new units were coming in to us straight from the factory with routine check engine lights. These were the same kind of routine check engine lights which on a Spartan chassis, our chassis technicians would simply plug their computer into the engine to quickly diagnose, remedy the problem, and clear the codes in just a few minutes. But, with a Freightliner chassis, we had to transport our new coaches clear across town just to have codes cleared, and then… they sat on Freightliner’s dealer’s lots for an average of 3.2 weeks! Jeff Sather and his team just took copious notes. Never rebutted. Never made an excuse. Just listened and wrote. I remember personally closing the meeting by saying the reason we don’t do business with you is because you prevent us from being a one stop shop, your dealer’s service costs us business, they’re damaging our brand, and Freightliner’s juice just isn’t worth the squeeze for us.

What happened next was what really impressed me! I personally never received another call from Freightliner & Team. No “here’s what we’re going to do,” or “here’s what’ve we’ve done,” now will you order some coaches on our chassis? I didn’t receive any of that. However, what did happen 18 months after our meeting with Freightliner occurred during one of our weekly Executive Council calls with all our General Managers, where our General Managers asked me “are we ever going to order any coaches on a Freightliner chassis?” I remember being shocked by the question! These were the very same General Managers who lobbied hard for us to stop ordering coaches on Freightliner chassis. As I questioned General Managers, it turns out Jeff Sather had gone and met with his dealers, purchased mobile trucks for them, plus hired and trained the mobile technicians for those trucks. And, those mobile technicians were at our facilities on Tuesdays and Thursdays, plus any additional times as needed. Every General Manager said they didn’t have a single outstanding Freightliner service issue, and because Freightliner had made their lives, and the lives of our customers easier, they now wanted to order coaches on Freightliner chassis. Which is exactly what we started doing.

Jeff Sather was true to his word. He had told me in our first meeting together after he had become President & CEO, that he was committed to the servicing of their motorhome business. Unlike his predecessors, Jeff didn’t come up through sales, or service. He came up through accounting, and as a result, he lives in a world of black and white. There is no gray in Jeff’s life, and I personally love doing business with people who have no gray in their lives.

I have been so impressed by Jeff Sather’s actions, and commitment to the RV industry, when he asked me if I’d let Angie do a factory tour video of his Gaffney, SC Freightliner facility, I said absolutely! And, true to his word again, Jeff gave us complete access, and he didn’t request a single edit, even though there “were places which gave him heartburn.” I think you’ll get a pretty good feel for the man, and be able to make your own judgement as you listen to Angie interview him at the beginning of the video.



Lastly, Jeff doesn’t duck from customers. I have personally witnessed Jeff in action as he has attended most of our AIM Rallies. Jeff cheerfully meets with customers, owns any problem, and then he makes certain the problem is solved.

In closing, after circulating your post @Rad22, and hearing back from all our General Managers yesterday, the local Freightliner dealers are on our lots with their mobile trucks at just two of our locations, and three have fallen back into their old ways, with Peach State in Atlanta being one of the three.

I believe friendships can be built on good business, but I’ve never seen a good business built on friendship. After a rocky start, I’m very proud to be counted as a friend of Jeff Sather’s. I guess the two takeaways from this Gettysburg Address of a post is:

1. Yes, I’ve built a good friendship with Jeff off our business with him. And yes, I will be speaking with Jeff about your post, and what it’s brought to light. I do have every confidence in the world Jeff will remedy this quickly, and his dealers probably aren’t going to like how he enforces the remedy going forward. I have every expectation the next time you come to visit us in Atlanta we will once again be a one stop shop for you.

2. To the extent we have a choice, National Indoor RV Centers will always choose to do business with the suppliers who treat our customers the best, and care about our brand as much as they care about their own brand. And, if they don’t care about their brand as much as I care about mine, we will simply use another supplier.

Onward,
Brett Davis

 

[MapNerd]

@Brett Davis this is unfortunate news but I greatly appreciate how candid and straight forward you are being with all of this. That’s a nearly impossible thing to find in the RV industry these days.

I just scheduled my 2 year chassis service, as well as generator and oasis service at NIRVC Atlanta after being unable to make a Gaffney appointment. Now discovering that NIRVC is not an authorized warranty service provider for FL, I am second guessing. It never occurred to me that NIRVC could sell me a coach, but not be an authorized warranty service provider for the same coach.

while having my chassis service work done, I’d planned to have the PDM recall addressed while there. Also, I strongly prefer having any work done on my coach performed by an authorized warranty service provider, even if it’s not warranty work. Reason being there are hoops to jump through and standards to meet in order for someone to gain that status, which gives me some comfort in knowing that the hands in my engine bay know very well what they are doing and the nuances of my chassis.

What would it actually take for NIRVC to go through the trouble of becoming an authorized FL warranty provider? Just my opinion but I think if a business is going to sell it (I purchased my Ventana on a FL from NIRVC Atlanta), they should be ready, willing, able and most importantly authorized, to maintain it and fix it when the inevitable occurs.

I did my first couple rounds of chassis, generator and oasis maintenance at Newmar and was never impressed with the amount spent compared to work done for the chassis. I’d planned to just take all that chassis work to NIRVC instead but now I am not so sure. I wish I’d known up front when I ordered my coach that NIRVC was not an authorized warranty provider for FL. That probably would have heavily influenced my chassis choice - Spartan DEF head issues be damned.

 

[redbaron]

@MapNerd I am sure Brett is going to reply, but l am going to post what I know. As you know from my many posts, I have owned. Freightliner Chassis since 2008, and chose it most recently for my 2019 dsdp.

Freightliner uses a dealer network that takes up large geographic portions of its area. I am south of Dallas TX. I have the option of driving south to get one franchise or north for another. This gives me 2 oasis options, but neither is easy. After dealing with them for so many years, I have learned the game.

A dealer is protected for their territory. There is no unclaimed territory in most areas, and certainly none along a highway or near an interstate. Maybe in the middle of Wyoming as far from A city in all directions, but I doubt even there.

These dealers have contracts in place for their license and no authorized service center can exist without the blessing of the territory holder.

I have spent thousands of hours and lots of money trying to get around this, and it simply won't happen. The dealers hate RVs but in no way are willing to let territory go.

I even tried the approach of a satellite service center under the authority of a dealer network. The lawyers where happy to bill hours and discuss but we where getting no where.

Now I was a single person, representing only an idea, so I wasn't even in the same ballpark as a single location dealer let alone a company the size of NIRVC. That said, the core business of Freightliner is around truck sales and service. That will always be their life blood. The techs that work truck can't be bothered with RVs. Why?

There are no carpets or bedding in trucks for the customer to complain about shoes or greasy hands.

No pet parrots screaming at them while accessing the engine.

You get the idea.

The techs working rvs are dedicated to bus and rv work. They hope to get promoted to truck where the money is. Why money? Everything is done on "book time" not actual time. Book time is 40-60% more than actual on truck, and 20-40% less than actual on RV.

So the method NIRVC is doing is the best option. The dealer is doing the work and NIRVC is keeping the bus and scheduling it.

For regular PMs, very few use Freightliner. I do my own, but others use mobile services that are far easier to schedule and cost less.

Your warranty is not affected by others doing a PM, and you will get a better job by not using Freightliner in most cases.

Gaffney is the exception.

 

[Neemer]

I was a bit dumbfounded to learn during my FPU that even the Newmar Service Center is not an authorized FL activity. I had a FL issue and had to take it to Elkhart to have it repaired. It wasn't repaired correctly, but I found a good place here locally once I returned home.

 

[Neemer]

BTW, thank you @Brett Davis for the insight into FL's business model. That is very helpful.

 

[MapNerd]

I was a bit dumbfounded to learn during my FPU that even the Newmar Service Center is not an authorized FL activity.

I am pretty sure I was told by them that they were, but that doesn’t make it true or more likely, I misunderstood what they’d said and took it to mean that they were.

 

[redbaron]

Newmar has freightliner reps in building 42 daily. They are using trucks similar to what Brett described. They have limited ability, but did reset my codes and repair rust on the frame and engine accessories. They also addressed a coolant leak and oil leak, both if which were determined to be caused by an over fill.

Anything more serious, or requiring more than 4 hours work must go to Elkhart. The 4 hour time frame was interesting to me, but is inline with the first statement of "more serious".

Newmar does chassis PM, but that is done by their staff, not Freightliner.

No recall work, including PDM, will be done at building 42. All recall work is required to go to a freightliner facility.

 

[ARD]

If you suffer from insomnia, my posts will be here to help.

Bahahahah. Thank you, Brett! I will admit after being at the hospital for 12 hours yesterday, I was unable to sleep. I started reading and I was sleeping like a baby. Thank YOU! But I really do look forward to finish reading this thread. ?

 

[redbaron]

@Brett Davis @NIRVC ..does freightliner do recall work at your facilities?

Specifically there are 3 open recalls on my 2019 DSDP. Cummins fuel rail, PDM (on hold due to parts) and dash display fix for brightness.

The dash recall is a ecm software upgrade.

I am curious how much work freightliner will do at your facility.

 

[Neal]

I heard @ARD’s coach was just rescheduled for February?

 

[Brett Davis]

@Brett Davis @NIRVC ..does freightliner do recall work at your facilities?

Specifically there are 3 open recalls on my 2019 DSDP. Cummins fuel rail, PDM (on hold due to parts) and dash display fix for brightness.

The dash recall is a ecm software upgrade.

I am curious how much work freightliner will do at your facility.

@redbaron I’ll respond as to our Lewisville, Texas location, because I understand from your prior post it’s our closest location to you.

Yes, your PDM and Dash recall can be performed by Freightliner onsite at our Lewisville facility. However, the fuel rail is so new we’ve actually sent our first two in Lewisville over to Cummins.

It would be difficult to post an exhaustive list of all the repairs Freightliner can perform at our Lewisville location, but in a quick, broad stroke, I’d tell you all air leaks, dash A/C, all minor repairs, and recalls.

As for all our other locations, after my telephone conversation with Jeff Sather today, I will defer my update until after Jeff gets to meet with his team this coming week to plot a course of action.

Onward,
Brett

 

[redbaron]

@redbaron I’ll respond as to our Lewisville, Texas location, because I understand from your prior post it’s our closest location to you.

Yes, your PDM and Dash recall can be performed by Freightliner onsite at our Lewisville facility. However, the fuel rail is so new we’ve actually sent our first two in Lewisville over to Cummins.

It would be difficult to post an exhaustive list of all the repairs Freightliner can perform at our Lewisville location, but in a quick, broad stroke, I’d tell you all air leaks, dash A/C, all minor repairs, and recalls.

As for all our other locations, after my telephone conversation with Jeff Sather today, I will defer my update until after Jeff gets to meet with his team this coming week to plot a course of action.

Onward,
Brett

That is very impressive!! Well done sir, well done!

 

[Brett Davis]

Good evening,

I thought I’d post a Freightliner update after my telephone conversation with Jeff Sather. Like myself, Jeff was dismayed to find out some of his dealers had slipped. As I expected, Jeff had a couple of ideas to remedy the situation, but needed to wait and meet with his team this coming week.

Then, a few hours later, I received an email from Jeff. Rather than summarize Jeff’s email, and run the risk of something being taken out of context, I thought I’d share Jeff’s email in it’s entirety.

Since coming into this industry I’ve noticed there are businesses who view coach owners as just a number on a spreadsheet, and then there are some who truly believe the coach owner pays their paycheck. I personally believe Jeff Sather, and the company he leads, falls squarely into the later category.

Onward,
Brett Davis

Hi Brett,

Sorry this email is so long. Service and support is near and dear to my heart. I am passionate about this subject as you will see below. After all, it is the customer who pays my salary.

I want to thank you for you call today and pointing out the thread on RVForums.com regarding Freightliner Custom Chassis service business model. I have many thoughts on this subject because as you know Service and Support of our customer is the only way we will be successful in the market.

As I mentioned, I have a lot of different thoughts regarding the thread on RVForums.com. Let me start with the business model of FCCC:

FCCC is fortunate to be part of Daimler Trucks North America (DTNA) as this brings us many advantages such as world class manufacturing processes, world class engineering systems and people, large global R&D expenditures to leverage and bring new technology to the RV market, significant buying power to keep costs down and many other items. On the service side, we are fortunate to share the same dealer network as DTNA, with over 450 parts and service locations in the US & Canada. None of our competitors has such a large support network. Also, key to the service experience is parts availability. FCCC shares with Daimler Trucks 10 strategically placed Parts Distribution Centers (PDC’s) in the US & Canada. This network of PDC’s has been built up over the past 8 years so that parts can be delivered from our PDC’s to over 80% of the 450 locations in less than 24 hours. Amazon promotes their 2 day shipping. More often than not, FCCC can do it in 1.

About the 450 locations: Why does FCCC insist on using one of our 450 locations? Answer: For the most consistent and best service experience possible. Each of our 450 locations is required to have the necessary tooling and trained service personnel to work on our chassis. Also, these locations are linked into the PDC’s for quick access to parts as well as the original build documentation for the specific chassis being worked on by the technician.

The infrastructure built around the 450 parts and service points is really important to provide the customer with the most consistent and best service experience possible. It is something that our competitors just don’t offer.

We recognize with 450 locations, not all are equal. Meaning a customer may have a great service experience or a poor experience depending on where they go and who they interact with during their visit. FCCC understands this and is working to improve the service experience across the country. Two ways we are doing this:

1. Oasis Dealer Network: An Oasis location has made a commitment and investment to support RV’s. These locations recognize that RV’ers require a different service experience than the truck owners. Many Oasis dealers have gone so far to build a separate service entrance and service bays for RV’s. They have electrical hookups and even camping spots to park your RV. Over the past couple of years, FCCC has been working with a few select dealers to establish new criteria to “fly the Oasis flag” at their location. Together with our dealers, we are raising the bar to be an Oasis dealer. This new criteria has resulted in 13 locations being dropped from Oasis, and 11 new locations added. Today we have 87 Oasis locations across the United States. We are targeting 100 to properly support the RV customers.

2. Support for the life of the chassis: As you know, FCCC stands behind every chassis we build. We believe in helping the customer throughout the life of that chassis. Most customers know and expect the RV Chassis to be supported through the warranty period. However, how many customers know or expect support after warranty? FCCC has invested heavily in customer support. We believe in this so much that we provide a 1-800-FTL-HELP (800 385-4357) call center, staffed 24/7/365 to assist our customers. This support and call center is there for the LIFE of the CHASSIS, not just the warranty period, or just the original owner. Our support is for the life of the chassis. The person on the other end of the phone is an FCCC employee, located in Gaffney. Some of our most experienced team members are the people answering the phone. On average, the person on the other end of the line has about 15 years of experience at FCCC.

There can be a lot of confusion and ambiguity when it comes to service and support. FCCC wants to bring clarity to the market and our customers through our actions, not just through our words. Hopefully my description above helps bring a little more transparency to our business model and how important service and support is to our company. The FCCC team is ready and available to assist all of our customers. We are just a phone call away.

Safe Travels
Jeff Sather

President and CEO
Freightliner Custom Chassis Corporation

We Embrace Our Customers and Deliver Memories – One Ride at a Time!

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