DEF Systems Can Now Be Disabled if they Fail

[turbopilot]

Diesel engine operators can exhale with EPA's new DEF guidance | Opinion

This change will let operators fix issues without their equipment shutting down, write the EPA's Lee Zeldin and the SBA's Kelly Loeffler.

www.desmoinesregister.com

 

[Richpatty]

Very interesting...and I could see this helping truckers and farmers quite a bit. The DEF thing could be a pain for them when it fails.

But I doubt the administrations real intentions. They are probably just happy to get rid of an anything related to the environment.

 

[redbaron]

Very interesting...and I could see this helping truckers and farmers quite a bit. The DEF thing could be a pain for them when it fails.

But I doubt the administrations real intentions. They are probably just happy to get rid of an anything related to the environment.

Excellent. All this environmental BS has been a pain to the average American allowing a few elites to profit.

I am so glad that common sense has returned to the heads of the departments and the tree hugging agendas are being shown the door.

Let the market decide what is needed. Let freedom ring!!!!

 

[scottramer]

Where are you reading they can be disabled, this is what the article says.

"Under EPA’s new guidance for heavy-duty trucks, for example, after a fault is detected, only a warning light appears for 650 miles or 10 hours. Most significantly, there is no performance impact for at least one workday. Then, the engine only mildly derates, by 15%, but this does not limit speed, allowing trucks to operate normally for up to 4,200 miles or two work weeks. Only after about four work weeks does speed drop to 25 mph until repairs are made"

 

[redbaron]

Bad reporting but the epa is allowing for full removal. More accurate reporting and future press releases will clear this up.

I am working with a company that will be bringing retail solutions for DEF delete to the mass market in the near future.

Edit:
There are still changes required before the legal retail options can be offered. The announcements today are not the final rulings that allow for retail def delete. I got too excited with what I have been hearing in the board room and what was released today….we are still waiting for the rulings that allow for retail def delete.

 

[Neemer]

I’m reminded of two things:

1. What goes up must come down.

2. When the political pendulum swings, it swings further than before.

 

[Joe Hogan]

How will the software change be implemented for the existing fleet?

 

[Chuggs]

I know DEF is a bad guy to some of you. Especially, if there is an equipment failure. But that is on the equipment…not the results of DEF.

I remember being at a FMCA rally…and they had us parked checkerboard style. When one of the diesel coaches near us started up…I remember thinking …what is wrong with his coach? Nothing wrong…it was pre-def. The smoke like to choke us to death. The DEF coaches make diesel noise…but don’t choke anyone out.

…for those longing to lay blue smoke…guess you picked a bad time to quit sniffing glue. I think they need to redesign the equipment to preclude the unacceptable level of failures. It is crap engineering that we are dealing with.

 

[redbaron]

I know DEF is a bad guy to some of you. Especially, if there is an equipment failure. But that is on the equipment…not the results of DEF.

I remember being at a FMCA rally…and they had us parked checkerboard style. When one of the diesel coaches near us started up…I remember thinking …what is wrong with his coach? Nothing wrong…it was pre-def. The smoke like to choke us to death. The DEF coaches make diesel noise…but don’t choke anyone out.

…for those longing to lay blue smoke…guess you picked a bad time to quit sniffing glue. I think they need to redesign the equipment to preclude the unacceptable level of failures. It is crap engineering that we are dealing with.

I agree that the benefits while idling appear huge due to lack of smell, and the non visible smoke makes it seem like a good thing.

The problem is the old adage “there is no such thing as a free lunch” applies.

The DEF system ionizes the urea to attach to the particles that would normally form into a moisture based cloud and spread over a wide area. The ionized particles now all collect in mass and are deposited on the road. Invisible but there. These are then washed with rain directly into streams with super concentrated amounts of the carbon, urea, and whatever unspent fuel oil is remaining.

Nothing changes except for visually and smell. Nothing better for environment.

In fact it’s worse for environment as the extra pollution it takes to build the scr:def system as well as the lower performance, this more fuel being used.

The def and scr systems only cause problems when looked at from the pollution and resource point of view.

It’s a system designed around appearance.

 

[Chuggs]

I agree that the benefits while idling appear huge due to lack of smell, and the non visible smoke makes it seem like a good thing.

The problem is the old adage “there is no such thing as a free lunch” applies.

The DEF system ionizes the urea to attach to the particles that would normally form into a moisture based cloud and spread over a wide area. The ionized particles now all collect in mass and are deposited on the road. Invisible but there. These are then washed with rain directly into streams with super concentrated amounts of the carbon, urea, and whatever unspent fuel oil is remaining.

Nothing changes except for visually and smell. Nothing better for environment.

In fact it’s worse for environment as the extra pollution it takes to build the scr:def system as well as the lower performance, this more fuel being used.

The def and scr systems only cause problems when looked at from the pollution and resource point of view.

It’s a system designed around appearance.

Interesting point. I guess it all has to go somewhere. I was under the impression the particles collected in the SCR and were then burned to make them less polluting overall. I am not well versed in the actual chemistry involved.

 

[redbaron]

Interesting point. I guess it all has to go somewhere. I was under the impression the particles collected in the SCR and were then burned to make them less polluting overall. I am not well versed in the actual chemistry involved.

Some particles that are too heavy to go thru the system do collect in the scr. These are then burned to be released into the atmosphere, similar to the way the oasis works.

 

[Richpatty]

I agree with Charlie…the DEF system is a good idea, it is the quality of the components is the problem. And I also agree that I do not miss the horrible diesel smell. I know it’s a lot easier on DW when I am backing up the rig into a spot and she is assisting.

As far as the environmental issues resulting from DEF, I was not able to find evidence of what Redbaron was stating. I would like to see where that data comes from. My understanding is that the exhaust is free of many of the harmful components due to the breakdown and conversion of pollutants rather than just keeping them out of the air. See below.

“The chemical reaction between the urea in your DEF and the NOx in your untreated exhaust breaks NOx down into water, oxygen, and carbon dioxide. These chemicals are far less harmful, reducing air pollution and minimizing human health risks.“

 

[Chuggs]

I cannot find anything to support the implication that DEF provides a zero net gain in polluting the environment. Would be interesting to find something to support the argument that the post def particles left onto the road are as damaging. There are a lot of articles about road wear and tire wear contaminants, automotive fluids and heavy metals. But nothing about def particles….

 

[Holdmybeer]

I agree with Charlie…the DEF system is a good idea, it is the quality of the components is the problem. And I also agree that I do not miss the horrible diesel smell. I know it’s a lot easier on DW when I am backing up the rig into a spot and she is assisting.

As far as the environmental issues resulting from DEF, I was not able to find evidence of what Redbaron was stating. I would like to see where that data comes from. My understanding is that the exhaust is free of many of the harmful components due to the breakdown and conversion of pollutants rather than just keeping them out of the air. See below.

“The chemical reaction between the urea in your DEF and the NOx in your untreated exhaust breaks NOx down into water, oxygen, and carbon dioxide. These chemicals are far less harmful, reducing air pollution and minimizing human health risks.“

You won't find the data it because it's misinformation/disinformation, euphemisms for alternative facts. What's coming out of the exhaust is catalysed nitrous oxide in the form of water and nitrogen, which is harmless.

 

[Chuggs]

You won't find the data it because it's misinformation/disinformation, euphemisms for alternative facts What's coming out of the exhaust is catalysed nitrous oxide in the form of water and nitrogen, which is harmless.

Kinda why I was skeptical … and made an effort to clear up the matter empirically. If I only had a Quarter for every time I’ve been lied to. $$$$$$$$.

 

[Chuggs]

“I am working with a company that will be bringing retail solutions for DEF delete to the mass market in the near future.”

While not evidence in anyway…this is a red herring for me,,, that says…look closer!

 

[redbaron]

While not evidence in anyway…this is a red herring for me,,, that says…look closer!

To be absolutely clear…I am biased.

 

[Chuggs]

To be absolutely clear…I am biased.

I totally respect your honesty!