New Purchase Advice Requested

[svoshop]

So I am back with more questions...

We went to look at a new Dutch Star yesterday. Floor Plan is 4310 which we love BC it has bunks. We have two girls, and this just fits us.

The first impression was this thing is massive. That checked my box for Ego. It just looks the part. However, things kind of went downhill from there.

We looked it over. Paint was ok, which I expected. Paint was kind of hazy around the front windshield. Does't look resprayed, but just does not look great. I think some time and compound would clean it up, but just expected more. The chrome on the exhaust was all pitted with rust spots. This will clean up, but damn if it wasn't strike two on my first look. The chrome handles on all the basement doors had small pits where they are going to need polished out. Things like the pot metal that connects the top portion of the mirror to the mirror arm were showing oxidation also. Again, this is not the end of the world, but I just felt at the price point it should be A) Better material and B) represented better. Clearly part B) is the selling dealers part.

We went in and really enjoyed the fit and finish of the inside. LOTS OF BUTTONS AND SWITCHES. Now I am coming out of a Jayco Seneca. It has a central control panel mid-ship that controls everything but the inverter. I like that much more, as any passenger will have to climb up front and be at the driver, possibly while in motion to make any simple adjustments like climate... I also can control my Seneca by my phone. So laying in bed, I can turn the AC down. I can open and close the awning. I can turn on lights... Things like that. I was disappointed that at this price point, that was not an option.

Upon start up, there was a check engine light. ( code: 520953, Aftermarket Diesel exhaust fluid dosing unit relay, Voltage below normal or shorted ) The coach has 400 miles on it. And has 54 hours!! I was able to pull the code with the instrument cluster and it references a DEF/DPF sensor not performing correctly. Modern diesels do not like to idle. It will choke up the DPF and cause issues. This bothers me. Sure we can have it looked at, sure it can be fixed. But I do not like that it has all this idle time. 54 hours at 55 MPH is the equal of 3000 miles. That kills me. Same with the generator. It too had 50 hours... When I questioned the dealer, they once a week let the units idle. Sounds like they let them idle all day since it is about 6 weeks old. They are in Columbus Ohio, so with it just now getting warm, that means that poor rig was out there running its ass off when it was cold and probably dumping fuel to keep temps up, as Diesel engines really do not produce much heat at idle.

The Camera was not working correctly. It would only show the rear camera. The side would come on with turn signals. The 360 button did nothing. Again, they can fix it I guess, but who buys a 500k coach with issues?? Maybe everyone, so this is why I am asking.

The coach did not have amazing power. It is a K2 Spartan Chassis, and at 450 hp and 1250 torque, I felt my Seneca had more passing power. The boost gauge indicated a max pressure of 35 psi. My Ford Pick up does 40 psi stock.... Something seems off.

So guys/ladies. Talk to me. Is this a sign to just keep the Seneca that we love. Or is this part of the Newmar build quality? I really know very little about Newmar. I store my Seneca with guys who all have Newmar's. They are all much older in life than me, and I look at them like they have "made it" and for that. I chose Newmar. Some of them have had issues, some have not. One was trying to fix his King Aire camera Friday... ( By the way, I read about them overheating the camera's but that is for another day )

I want to like this thing. I really do. The deal is good. ( about 28% off ) the trade price is good ( I am losing about 10k ) and for current market conditions, that is pretty strong IMHO... But I do not want to buy trouble. I will happily drive my Seneca that I have spent around 40 man hours perfecting. I do not mind doing that stuff, but I do not have the patience to let this sit at a repair facility. Nor do I have the want to fix all these little gremlins.

Lastly, The damn water system. I just do not understand how it works. I like to put about 20 gallons in my tank when I travel. So we can wash hands, flush toilets etc. I hook up to city water wherever we go. On the water system. I see the connections, the drains. And one main handle, Auto fill or Manual. How the heck does this work. I want to hook up to city water. Have the tank remain at the 20 gallon I put in there ( Less usage ) And just run off city water. No use of the water pump, no filling of the tank. Using city water on demand only. Using city water pressure on demand only, Simply taking water from the hose to inside the coach without the coach doing any more work than simply diverting a flap to allow water into the rig. Can this be done??

I am very thankful for the help. I do not sweat this stuff, but for some reason, this one intimidates me a little.

Mike

 

[Nereus]

Sounds as if you really like your Seneca and will regret making the change. We really like our 2018 4369 DS. That said, the Oasis exhaust pipe rusts if I don't keep after it. Door locks have been the subject of many posts. I usually keep my potable water tank topped off when I travel. In my mind, it reduces the free surface effect and my coach rides better. If you want to put 25% water in tank, turn the handle to manual and check your tank level-when it reaches the desired level turn the water off.I find the 450HP K-2 chassis to have more than enough power and tows my jeep effortlessly. We really like the ride. A trip to Nappanee will fix the cosmetic issue, but agree, it speaks to quality issues. Your description of the Seneca motivated me to look it up online. Nice looking coach. Understanding that no coach is perfect, we love the tiled heated floors, large bathroom, ride, roominess, kitchen and other features, We have had great support from customer service both from Newmar and Spartan even after three years. As you would expect others will have different experiences. Good luck!

 

[JRW-NAW]

My coach gets a Low Voltage alert on every cold start. This is because of the air preheat grids. It is not a problem. If you do a search you will find this subject comes up often.

Water system, at least from a Ventana prospective. The auto fill only works if you turn the function on from the tank level panel. So when I prep for travel, I connect city water, turn auto fill/top-off on...when the level hits 25-30% full, I turn auto fill off. WHen connected to city water in a campsite, I never turn auto fill on.

Safe travels.

 

[FL-JOE]

I will speak from the perspective of purchasing a new Ventana 4369 back in 2017 from dealer stock (MSRP $355,000). First of all the paint and chrome. Our paint was perfect, no cloudy spots or imperfections. The chrome engine exhaust was not rusted or pitted when I purchased our coach nor did it ever get that way. I found it was such high quality chrome that I only had to chrome polish it about once every couple of months to keep it looking like new. I suspect Newmar has downgraded the quality on that exhaust chrome. As far as chrome extensions on the Oasis and generator, those always rusted quickly on my coach and I replaced each of those twice in the 3 years of ownership.

Even an empty 43' Newmar probably weighs well over 40,000 pounds. A modern Cummins 450HP choked down diesel isn't under powered but it certainly isn't over powered either. I know after transitioning from my 400HP Cummins Newmar a few months ago to pulling our 20,000 pound fiver with the 21 F350 6.7 I felt like my motor was something out of a race car, but then again I am generating more HP and half the weight.

You already summed it up for yourself. "But I do not want to buy trouble. I will happily drive my Seneca that I have spent around 40 man hours perfecting. I do not mind doing that stuff, but I do not have the patience to let this sit at a repair facility. Nor do I have the want to fix all these little gremlins." In our first year we had to have our oil pan gasket replaced and our DEF tower replaced. There were several other "minor" issues Newmar had to address during our first 2 years of ownership. You may never need to leave your coach overnight or longer at a repair facility or you may be out of it for several weeks the first couple of years, no one can predict these things.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[svoshop]

JRW-NAW... Does that trigger the SES lamp? My research has led me to thinking that they may have hit the kill switch before the engine finished its procedure of shutting down. Takes about two minutes from what I read. There are TSB’s on other chassis that pertain to this.

 

[svoshop]

I will speak from the perspective of purchasing a new Ventana 4369 back in 2017 from dealer stock (MSRP $355,000). First of all the paint and chrome. Our paint was perfect, no cloudy spots or imperfections. The chrome engine exhaust was not rusted or pitted when I purchased our coach nor did it ever get that way. I found it was such high quality chrome that I only had to chrome polish it about once every couple of months to keep it looking like new. I suspect Newmar has downgraded the quality on that exhaust chrome. As far as chrome extensions on the Oasis and generator, those always rusted quickly on my coach and I replaced each of those twice in the 3 years of ownership.

Even an empty 43' Newmar probably weighs well over 40,000 pounds. A modern Cummins 450HP choked down diesel isn't under powered but it certainly isn't over powered either. I know after transitioning from my 400HP Cummins Newmar a few months ago to pulling our 20,000 pound fiver with the 21 F350 6.7 I felt like my motor was something out of a race car, but then again I am generating more HP and half the weight.

You already summed it up for yourself. "But I do not want to buy trouble. I will happily drive my Seneca that I have spent around 40 man hours perfecting. I do not mind doing that stuff, but I do not have the patience to let this sit at a repair facility. Nor do I have the want to fix all these little gremlins." In our first year we had to have our oil pan gasket replaced and our DEF tower replaced. There were several other "minor" issues Newmar had to address during our first 2 years of ownership. You may never need to leave your coach overnight or longer at a repair facility or you may be out of it for several weeks the first couple of years, no one can predict these things.

Good luck with your decision.

Agreed that one never knows. I guess I am holding Newmar to a higher standard.

As for water. So when I’m at a camp. If I connect and select auto fill. But never hit the button in the coach, I will have water on demand and not use the holding tank or water pump? I wish it was a little more dumbed down on the panel.

 

[JRW-NAW]

svoshop, Yes on the water. Probably on the SES light...I don't remenber as I totally ignore it now. On the first trip with the coach, I was getting Low Votlage alerts while driving. I was in contact with both Freightliner and Newmar customer support. The first thing both asked was if the alerts were while starting the engine, as the alert while starting is 'normal' due to current draw of the preheat grids. My issue turned out to be non-tightened nuts on the power cables attached to the altenator.

 

[NWIP]

It sounds a little like the dealer has maybe abused the coach a little, 50 hours on generator and 54 hours on engine is excessive. I had less than 10 hours on generator.

I thought our paint on the 2020 was superior to the 2017 which I thought was very good. I did have a few paint issues but Newmar took care of them without hesitation over 3 days at the factory. Being that you are in Ohio, I highly recommend a visit for warranty work at the factory. I don’t mess around with dealers unless absolutely necessary.

I also have a Spartan and would agree the exhaust tip seems poor quality. Spartan has been good to deal with and I went to Charlotte, MI and had service done. Power is sufficient but not a rocket ship. Our 40’ with same engine had plenty of power, 43’ is heavier.

Only you can decide if the coach is for you but I think with a little attention by factory and Spartan you will be happy.

 

[svoshop]

Well ... I think we have the mechanical set backs corrected. All clear on the Camera and Cummins blessed the codes and why they were set. Just an uneducated dealer. I pick up Thursday.

I called Spartan to discuss some things, and there are two recalls though... SMH... I will get them handled after I use it next week.

Mike