Newmar Quality

[Chargerman]

I realize that there are a lot of happy Newmar owners here and I certainly am not posting this to upset them but I just was looking at a very lightly used 2021 King Aire that The Motorcoach Store has list for close to 1mm. What I find hard to understand is when looking at the pics of the open storage bays there are wires hanging everywhere and the wet bay looks like a disaster. Also, if one looks at the bottom of multiple bays there are wires hanging that then violate the door seal and enter and leave the bays. I can’t imagine that Newmar’s flagship coach is built with such substandard attention to detail. Is this what one would expect to see as normal Newmar practice. I certainly could bring myself to lay down that kind of money for that. As a comparison I also looked at the Entegra Cornerstone that they just listed. It is 3 years older but I don’t see anything even closely resembling the issues I see on that King Aire.

 

[Buly]

You will see much worse if you look behind the panels in areas hidden out of view. I have enough examples collected in 4+ years for a book book. Just finished installing back on the wall the two light fixtures in the master bath that fell off the wall.
the molding above just fell off too. All due to shoddy installation.
Next, will be securing loose wires hanging in the basement, etc etc…..

 

[Rich W.]

I dont know what all that extra wiring is hanging down below the bays, but it didn't come from the factory that way. That is not OE wiring. Looks like a very sloppy add-on of some kind - entertainment stuff, after-market chassis and wheel well lighting, or...?. Some of it looks like residential solar wiring but that doesn't make much sense given the locations of all of it.

That said, I saw enough rats-nest wiring on the New Aire, along with some insufficient attention to detail in areas not readily viewable, that combined with the complexity of the newer rigs, I decided to steer clear. Since then Ive read of many quality, reliability, and durability issues with the New Aire that support my decision.

I really like the appearance and some of the features of the newer rigs, but to me its not worth the headaches. All that KIB multi-plex stuff may be wonderful, but I like separate controls for everything and light switches that dont require reading glasses to operate. I can fix about anything on my rig and very little goes wrong with it.

 

[Neemer]

I agree with @Rich W. That did not come from the factory that way. For comparison, check this one out: https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2021-Newmar-King-Aire-4531-5017723243

 

[scottramer]

I have seen on other forums where owners of new King Aires’s complaining about the attention to detail when it comes to wiring. I agree the the wiring along the bottom of the basement door is something aftermarket but if you look at the pic of the electrical bay, that is a good example of shotty workmanship. I have a 2019 London Aire and just like Buly posted, I also have tons of pics and countless man hours where I have gone in and rerouted, zip tied and in some cases extended wiring because they were so stretched. Then there is the plumbing (pex) that I have gone back in and secured. The worst I found was the shower valve pex going into the back of the shower valve. The entire bundle of piping that comes off the valve and branches out to feed the washer was not supported or secured including the washer cut off valve just hanging off the pex, all were just hanging off the connections going to the back of the shower valve. Newmar does so many thing right but when it comes to hidden details they really need to put a little more effort in to clean it up and do it right.

 

[Dona40]

I have seen on other forums where owners of new King Aires’s complaining about the attention to detail when it comes to wiring. I agree the the wiring along the bottom of the basement door is something aftermarket but if you look at the pic of the electrical bay, that is a good example of shotty workmanship. I have a 2019 London Aire and just like Buly posted, I also have tons of pics and countless man hours where I have gone in and rerouted, zip tied and in some cases extended wiring because they were so stretched. Then there is the plumbing (pex) that I have gone back in and secured. The worst I found was the shower valve pex going into the back of the shower valve. The entire bundle of piping that comes off the valve and branches out to feed the washer was not supported or secured including the washer cut off valve just hanging off the pex, all were just hanging off the connections going to the back of the shower valve. Newmar does so many thing right but when it comes to hidden details they really need to put a little more effort in to clean it up and do it right.

"Attention to detail" thought process is sadly lacking in todays workforce. I fear it will only get worse.

 

[lostinfla]

Think your wiring is bad, look at a 37' coach. I believe they use the same wiring harness from the 45' units. All that extra wire is balled up, tie wrapped, and stuffed into any available space. That and all the guillotine connectors they use that WILL fail sooner or later. Every time I look behind a panel, I have to restrain myself from taking a wire cutter to it and re-doing all the connections, but it's worked so far, so I'll leave it alone, for now....

 

[SteveMA]

We purchased a 2020 Mountain Aire 4569 in January 2022 with 8000 miles. One owner, who never even took the plastic off the toilet flush buttons or the dash touch screens.... they sure did not change any A/V, KIB or Silverleaf wiring... The cable mess in the bays is appalling. For the record, I own a company that does massive a/v installs for fortune 100 companies. If any of my installers was to do an installation that was HALF as sloppy as what I found in the bays (and behind the hidden panels, in the bathroom et al) they would be unfortunately out of a job in 24 hours.

The A/V wiring from the factory is literally 'D+' quality. I will be glad to provide photos of about 30-40 extra feet of CAT5 that is just coiled up and hanging in the 3rd bay on the passenger side. and that is just one of many spots. Not talking about the 'wall of interfaces and wires' that is on the passenger side, against the wet bay.

Obviously they get the cables made in general looms... and then they find creative ways to 'tie it up'.

Same with the PEX water pipes. The pipe that feeds our Dishwasher is just hanging down between the frame rails and goes up through a hole in the bay insulation/floor. Black goop applied - it fell off...

We had a Forest River Berkshire 2015 XL 40' that was drastically better in the wiring of the chassis power under the driver's seat. In the A/V department there was a lot less wiring, but I would give the Berk a 'B' for A/V wiring. Berk had 2 WONDERFUL fully controllable manual manifolds for hot and cold in the wet bay so that every water line is a home run and there are no 'T' fittings under the floor, in the walls or in the bays - just straight runs of PEX, that is good for about 40 years... No question the MA is a better built and more refined coach than the Berk... but ... surprised...

I'll spend the next month or so before our annual summer 8,500 mile trip fixing, securing, fabricating covers and basically making it so that when something gets pulled out of a bay (like e-bikes) it does not take wiring, plugs and other hoses with it....

Love the coach, surprised they have not figured out that details like this count.

I honestly was shocked when I looked at this Mountain Aire. Was at a substantial dealer and asked if I could look at KA and Essex (they had both on the lot) and crawled through the bays just to see if it was a 2020 issue (built in late 2019) or just an endemic issue. Sadly, covid had nothing to do with this...

 

[scottramer]

Yep, I have a 2019 London Aire and the same thing. I have gone behind every cabinet drawer, access panel, in back of cabinet, up inside the basement and even pulled the peg board and wet bay covers and what a mess there. I zipped tied wires, attached loose plumbing and insulated pex lines that were rubbing on sharp edges and did the same for hydraulic and air lines under the chassis and frame rails. I may be a little OCD but it’s better to be proactive now then be reactive when something breaks or leaks on the road. But it is amazing how the best production coach built can have such sloppy attention to detail in hidden places.

 

[Rd1]

........I can’t imagine that Newmar’s flagship coach is built with such substandard attention to detail. Is this what one would expect to see as normal Newmar practice. .......

To the OP, you are very observant. Newmar makes a very nice looking coach and that's what sells, mostly. There is also a presumption of quality. That came from the original founder Mahlon who actually worked on the factory floor and took care of his products. With the next generation (Miller) taking over and now WG, the quality is pushed 'under' and quantity is the main objective, unfortunately.

However, thats only one side of the coin. The other side is us. Its fine to go on a forum and point the obvious, no problem there. However, if more owners would take the time and write a simple letter to the man in charge, perhaps some of these issue would get the attention they deserve.

I find Mr. Happe (WG CEO) generally responsive. After all, the buck stops with him. Further, he is mainly responsible to his board and the investors. He has no idea what goes on the production line, except his quarterly reports and how well their bottom line is. The mid managers run the production and you can bang heads with them and they would only do so much. The mid managers sole objective (now a days) is kiss the right back side to keep his job! Unfortunately.

So, as owner or even a perspective owner, you can just fire up a simple letter to the big man, be polite, be professional and to the point and let the man know the lack of quality issues. At the end, you can tell them, these quality issues would discourage you from considering such an investment in his product. Even a handful of such attempts can make a difference, and if it doesn't, then you know the product/company is not worth your dollars.

 

[Lab00Rat]

I agree with the statements regarding keeping up the quality standards.
To that end, all the previous Tiffin owners who switched to Newmar have commented how much better Newmar is. What other buying options do we have if Newmar slides towards inferior product? Newell? Not a chance for my budget.

Serious question, but I would pick Newmar again given my past experiences with other brands.