Spartan DPF Regeneration

[TJ&LadyDi]

@TJ&LadyDi, confirmed yesterday our coach REGEN extinguishes below 20mph and illuminates at 40mph. Think I’ll reach out to Spartan if this is normal. Maybe different with earlier model years

Thanks, @NWIP. Let us know what Spartan says.

Best to you and Lisa.

TJ

 

[Rich W.]

Folks. Please THINK about the Regen Process when you start considering so much.

Do you REALLY think every vehicle with a DEF system has to pull over, slow down, or find a concrete pad to park on every time they go through a regen cycle? Of course not!!

Just DRIVE! My truck mechanic laughed about this subject. Every rig with DEF goes through a regen cycle often. That’s why you use 3-6% DEF FLUID. No need to change your driving when this happens.

Actually the DPF uses diesel and the SCR uses DEF. DEF has nothing to do with regen.

 

[redbaron]

The regen need for the dpf issue is largely wrong and exaggerated. The root cause is a failed sensor, and a new sensor or an emulated sensor is the only solution until cummins offers a 3rd option of removing the derate when the def sensor fails.

 

[Joe Dutchstar]

some useful tips on Regen cycles and care

How Not to Hate Your Diesel Particulate Filter

Understanding manual and on-road regeneration, how to keep them clean, and when to replace them will reduce the hassles associated with diesel particulate filters.

www.businessfleet.com

 

[jagpot]

The regen need for the dpf issue is largely wrong and exaggerated. The root cause is a failed sensor, and a new sensor or an emulated sensor is the only solution until cummins offers a 3rd option of removing the derate when the def sensor fails.

Difference between DPF and DEF please? Also when you say sensor do you mean the NOX sensor? Just had that replaced and still get "Low DEF" readings and check engine light on. Just came from Nappanee and they did a regen as part of the annual checkup.I don't ever get anything that say regb in progress on the dash. Thoughts?

 

[redbaron]

Difference between DPF and DEF please? Also when you say sensor do you mean the NOX sensor? Just had that replaced and still get "Low DEF" readings and check engine light on. Just came from Nappanee and they did a regen as part of the annual checkup.I don't ever get anything that say regb in progress on the dash. Thoughts?

You highlighted the common mistake...and I made it in my post.

Dpf---diesel particulate filter
Def --disel exhaust fluid.

The sensor that is failing is the def head sensor. This is responsible for sending levels, temperature, and concentration levels to the cummins computer

When this sensor fails, the emissions system is still 100% operational, but the cummins code is disabling your ability to drive because the sensor is not sending good data every 1 second.

The emulator resolves this problem. It sends good data every 1s. It does not send real data, just good data. For this reason your levels need to be manually checked.

If you run out of def, other parts of the system will shutdown and disable your ability to drive. The emulator is not a defeat.

 

[jagpot]

Thanks got it! In the 5600 trip we got low Def And check engine light three times. It was never low or even below half. It never D rated. I would simply shut off the engine turn it back on and then it wouldSay no messages and off we would go again. New filter new Nox sensor.
Newmar, Cummings, and spartan I’ll say that they doubt it is a DEF head. They say they have not seen problems with the 2014 king aire. I don’t know. It’s a crapshoot anytime you leave the driveway. This emulator you talk about? Is this something That the brains of many in this forum have come up with? If so where and when can it be obtained?

 

[redbaron]

Your 2014 does not have a def head sensor. It is not prone to the problems most are having.

 

[jagpot]

Your 2014 does not have a def head sensor. It is not prone to the problems most are having.

Well we’ll well. No one through all these issues has EVER told me that!!’

 

[Joe Dutchstar]

Or you could drive a Gasser

 

[jagpot]

Or you could drive a Gasser

View attachment 8770

No thanks

 

[Rich W.]

The regen need for the dpf issue is largely wrong and exaggerated. The root cause is a failed sensor, and a new sensor or an emulated sensor is the only solution until cummins offers a 3rd option of removing the derate when the def sensor fails.

Again, two separate systems.

Regen is necessary on a regular basis to burn the soot captured by the DPF and turn it to ash. Otherwise you get a plugged DPF and maybe it can be serviced or maybe it will have to be replaced. Both are expensive, the latter much more so.

DEF is injected into the SCR which resides AFTER the DPF and it turns harmful nitrogen oxide (through a chemical reaction with heat and ammoni) into nitrogen and oxygen with is essentially air. It is the DEF head (or header if you’re driving a frieghtliner) that has the sensors that fail and cause the unnecessary derates related to the DEF system.

When you get a DPF related derate it’s because you’ve failed to allow or cause sufficient regens, the DPF soot load is too high, and this is largely correctable with one or more forced regens, unless it has just gone too long. If it has gone too long for regens to do the job, this is when you remove the DPF and have it baked in hopes of restoring it to a functional state so you do t have to buy a new one.

Incidently both the DPF and the SCR are in line AFTER the DOC, but that’s another discussion. But just to keep it all straight, it goes DOC-DPF-SCR. Regen happens in the DPF; DEF is injected into the SCR. Two separate sub-systems that make up the exhaust side of current diesel emission controls.

 

[Rich W.]

Difference between DPF and DEF please? Also when you say sensor do you mean the NOX sensor? Just had that replaced and still get "Low DEF" readings and check engine light on. Just came from Nappanee and they did a regen as part of the annual checkup.I don't ever get anything that say regb in progress on the dash. Thoughts?

For the difference see above. Passive regen happens with no visibility to the driver while operating at sufficient exhaust temps to burn off soot in the DPF. An active regen happens when driving conditions arent allowing sufficient passive regens. This is when diesel is injected into the DPF and you get the indicator(s) on the dash.

A forced regen is a regen either you or a tech performs when the previous two have not been sufficient. This is done with the vehicle stationary, at high idle (around 1200 rpm) and takes about an hour. With sufficient diagnostics you can read your DPF soot level to determine if a forced regen is necessary.

Annually might be ok as a preventative measure, but I believe its better to monitor soot levels and burn it off when it climbs above 50-60%. This happens when passive and active regens are either not occurring, are interrupted, or driving conditions are such that you are building up soot faster than the system can get rid of it on its own, and it may be needed more often than annually.

None of this has anything to do with DEF or the DEF system.

 

[jagpot]

Your 2014 does not have a def head sensor. It is not prone to the problems most are having.

When did they start using thedef head sensor? (Spartan)

 

[redbaron]

I don't know exact dates, but it was around 2016