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That's Insane

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Are there no lakes or rivers in CO.
There are many lakes and reservoirs. At 11 mile reservoir on the Platte River you can boat in the summer and drive on it in winter. Great Salmon and Trout fishing.
 
You should get out more.
How do you know I'm about to have another surgery?! Mr Pain told me it would not wait until fall, so I'm going to miss a chunk of fishing this summer. :-( Best times for fishing/hunting are in the fall anyway, so hopefully I'll be up and going after a few months.

I lived in CO for many decades and was outside a lot--camping, four wheeling, trail riding (horses), and fishing. But wife and I finally moved as CO became not much different than a smoggier los angeles but with more crime and kids doing mountain dew commercials, tearing up the national forests. It literally seemed like the floodgates were opened in the 90s. We had to go further and further away from the front range in order to avoid the hordes of idiots.

Don't know if you are not aware of the environment around you or you just have a very limited frame of reference, but CO (and most of the mountain west) is semi-arid to desert. Or rocks/clay with yucca dressing. I know, tv commercials don't show that, but it really is.

I still have family and friends there and this year has been another one of their drought years, very little snow fell in the mountains. That's bad as that's where the water comes from. And the snow is a drier snow than elsewhere--thus, the "champagne snow" that skiers like to brag on. It's pretty airy.

So the reserviors are very very low again...and they'll start to drain them in an effort to stop some of the water from evaporating. Deserts have a lot of sun. When they did that before, the limit on trout would be eliminated as they were going to have a die off anyway, so we'd stock up our freezer in those times. Yeah, they are all stocked, liver pellet fed fish, but we gave most of them to our neighbors anyway. Taught my wife to fish and she became quite proficient.

Antero is now being drained (again) in an effort to save water. They'll move it down through some of the other reserviors--thru spinney, eleven mile and finally into cheeseman. They'll keep doing that until water runs out or cheeseman's full as cheeseman's the deepest.

Cheeseman's in los angeles colorado, aka denver metro, aka front range. Smoggy, congested zoo there, but some people for some reason think it's a wonderful place. So it's people's frame of reference I guess.

You one of those people that take your boat and get in line at 4am at the entrance to one of the reserviors that allow boats? It's always funny driving by them later in the morning--there's still a line of cars with boats waiting/hoping people will leave so they will be allowed to be let in. I'd call it a day at 9am if I were in that line, but then again, I'd not be one of those people waiting in that line under the sun for a hope at using my boat in an overcrowded, drying up reservior.

Whitewater river paddling is even bad as, well, not much water and too many rocks. It's another bad year for water in the arid, desert west. Remember lake meade shrivelling down? That's fed w/colorado water too. In WY, ranches are selling their cows because it's too expensive to feed them--due to yet another drought. Now is calving season btw. Big "fire sales" going on.

Where I am now, I have 2 RVs and 2 boats. One for big water and one for more inland water. I can go a block from me, put in, and go anywhere in the world via boat. Due to our experience in CO, we chose this place to live because of all the water, everywhere, big lakes, little lakes, rivers, streams and creeks.

We'd laugh wife and I, thinking back about CO and the people there, lining up or hiking/four wheeling to find water. Some even own a gravel pit that flooded--and have ski rentals on it. Can't go far before you have to turn around. Brown isn't the color here--green, lush green is. And blue and clear for the water.

So I guess it's all relative after all. Enjoy the traffic and the hordes so you can experience desert fishing while the water level is high enough to support fish. People do. A lot of people. Literally, lines of people....

Oh, and the wildfires too. Part of that desert thing....
 
Are there no lakes or rivers in CO.
You must not be from or only visit or know CO via commercials and tv shows.
I already explained the lack of snowfall again leading to reserviors (backed up streams/rivers creating a lake). It affects everything out there but water is the key, the base to all life anyway. Surface water has always been a huge issue out in the arid, desert west. They literally have fought 'wars' over it.
Most normal places, you have "land rights" and that's it, everything is good. But in CO for example, someone else can own the mineral rights under your feet. So if there's gas on your land, you can find a derrick on your property...that's not yours. You don't own what's underneath the surface rocks and clay.

Water is something most people not from there don't know about, even if they go outdoors to do things. Where you live, if a stream runs through your property, people canoeing on it can keep going on the river as it passes through your property. Makes sense to normal people in normal areas as the water isn't theirs, the landowners.

But...in CO, the water becomes the property of the landowner from the point it enters their property to the point it leaves their property. So they can--and do--put a fence across the stream/river at their lot lines. You go wading/boating down and come to that fence, well, you can't go any further. The water magically changed ownership.

Big stinks have been raised about this as you can imagine. Well, the DOW stocks their fake industrial trout into these rivers! people say. Yes they do. But when the fish crosses into water that is on someone elses property, that fish is property of the property owner. The fish goes with the water for the duration of their land ownership.

But the good thing about the west is there is an abundance of public land. However most of the good land is privately held, so most of the waters will be the crowded, dwindling reserviors or rocky streams. Flat land with green stuff on it has been priced out of many people's reach.
And "tresspass fines" are quite steep out west mind you. Almost like there's an industry behind it ($$$).

With the exponential growth in hordes in CO, the water use demands have also skyrocketed. Their water comes from either snow (reserviors) or aquafirs. Reserviors/streams were previously covered, so let's talk water below their feet.

The ogallala aquafir is the main provider of water for many western states. And it's been being rapidly depleted. If you live rural, how deep is your well? 100 feet? There, if you can drill a well, it's 700-750ft down on the high plains, away from the rock mountains. That's very expensive to drill and expensive to bring up. But boooooy is that water good. It's just being depleted.

So there are dual draws on the water resources in CO (and the rest of the west actually). All the while any drought seasons/times are a further drain in supply.

Look at the subdivision rules for example. Water is king for a reason. Can't buy 30 acres and build a house in BFE elbert county CO. Gotta have 45 acres in order to get a well. And that's a domestic well. Can't water livestock from a domestic well.....

Anywho, it's all relative I guess. People thinking of moving there should familarize themselves with the area and marketing first. Look at the real estate ads.
For example:
"Step over stream". A trickle that's usually seasonal, from the snow melt.
"360* views" This means there's not a tree in sight.

Go to a state/national park and want to see those pictures you see? Get there early, like waaaaay early, go to the front and take that picture or vid. Don't pan the camera around as if you do, you'll see a parking lot rapidly filling up......
 
Thats was my point..why did he say having a boat there is insane? I love boats..i have 3..Nothing better than a beautiful day on the water
 
Oh.. i see . ...well put up a fence in the water here and it will be torn down by morning..no one owns the water, only the land at its bank. We have a lot of water. The ACOE manages all waterways.. you have to get their OK to build a dock .
 
C
Thats was my point..why did he say having a boat there is insane? I love boats..i have 3..Nothing better than a beautiful day on the water

You live in louisana. Lots of green there, which means lots of water too.
I too love boating. But if I lived in palm springs, well, I could have a lot of boats, but not do much boating. Why? It's desert, not much water.

Compare this to where you live. As the reserviors dry up (again), water will be diverted from them to cheeseman to help conserve it from evaporation--any little bit helps in desperate times.
Look at where cheeseman is. Elevenmile will also have water diverted from there to cheeseman if the lack of water continues, which it invariably does as it's the nature of the land there.

See how close cheeseman and eleven mile is to the denver-southern front range? Not too far. With half of that map being a lunarscape desert on the right and the left 1/3 being mountains of sh*t land, up/down of rocks, nice to look at, that leaves not much for humans to live and recreate in.

So those 2 reserviors, already low on water and decreasing, are in range of about 3,000,000 people. People move to CO to play tourist or do mountain dew commercials, not to stay in their overpriced condo or cookie cutter subdivision. So yeah, get to them early as there will be lines to get in. To some, getting in lines to enter a crowded event is OK. Me? I like nature too much to waste my time in lines, dodging people or being in crowds.

I just report the news on the ground. Probably wouldn't be a good employee for any tourism or chamber of commerce group...
 

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Oh.. i see . ...well put up a fence in the water here and it will be torn down by morning..no one owns the water, only the land at its bank. We have a lot of water. The ACOE manages all waterways.. you have to get their OK to build a dock .

You aren't living in CO. I know that. I can tell by your POV on what it's like in CO. It's the same with most everyone--we tend to judge other areas by our own area and/or information given to us by others, say someone doing videos of RV living in CO or fishing or tourism boards, tv commmercials.

I'm telling you (and others) what it's actually like there. I lived there for a very long time and fled before it got all the worse. I saw which direction it was going...and I was right.

Take some time off and bring your boat to CO. Spend a month there so you can go boating in different areas. Then post your experiences about it here for me and others to read.

BTW, if you tear down the fence on someone elses property like you mentioned, you'll get arrested and wind up in court. Wind up 10 feet on someone elses property during hunting season? Big fines. Can lose your rifle and even vehicle. Think I'm joking? Do a search for "corner crossing in wyoming".

I just report the news, the events on the ground. I'll leave the fluff, fantasies and commercials to others.
 
a continuar....
eleven mile reservior rules
  • Water-contact sports such as wading, swimming, scuba diving, water-skiing, jet skiing, or towing of any water toys are prohibited.
  • There is an enforced five-minute use limit while mooring at the dock.
  • Islands within the reservoir are closed to all public use.
  • The reservoir is closed to boating from one half-hour after sunset to one half-hour before sunrise daily.
Expounding upon the reasoning for those:
This is the drinking water of millions of people you are wanting to be in....and "dilution isn't the solution" when there is relatively so little of it. So stay out of the water.

5 minute mooring time at the docks? Must be a lot of people and lines waiting to load/unload. Wonder if the lines to get in are as long as the ones at the metro reserviors? They can be many hours wait to just get in.

Too bad about the 'no tresspassing on the islands' rule, but completely understandable. They'd be trashed. Here, where I now live, outside of CO, it's common for people to go out to islands and camp on them overnight or for many nights.
But there, well, I guess there are certain hours that one is allowed to be on a boat in that drinking water. Be interesting to know the logic behind that but my guess is their inability to monitor people when there's no sun. Some of the best fishing is done at night too.
They do boat inspections at the dock, so I guess that's part of it.

cherry creek:
  • Expect longer waits due to the popularity of the park. (same other restrictions above)

Cheeseman reservior, ran by denver water. Water from drying up reserviors will be diverted to Cheeseman. Remember, it is their drinking water.....so "all boating and camping" is prohibited. Can only fish on one part of it, goose arm something. Don't know if touching the water is allowed or not though as it was never interesting enough to me to go there.

Aurora reservior is a lot better for quickie fishing trip and that's where they dump the female rainbows after they are through using them for many seasons of spawning. They're bigger than the stockers elsewhere. Scenery is urban, which makes sense, but it's all brown anyway.

Let's move north, by fort collins, horseshoe reservior:
Same inspection rules at ramps, but also this:
Inspection at boat ramps but ramps may occasionally close due to weather, water levels, or staffing. No inspection, can't go on the water.

Tarryall is a closer one, but in the mountains. Wife caught her first trout there.
The boat ramp is open for inspections every day from May 1 until October 31. When the boat ramp is closed, only hand-launched and non-motorized vessels are allowed. Must be actively fishing on all vessels that are on the water.

OK, now this is boring. For those who want to actually know the rules of boating in CO, here is an 85 page rules book from the colorado state rec lands. Don't know if it covers the bath tubs owened by the various water boards of various cities though.

Also, agriculture has pre-eminent water rights in CO...as is with most of the west. They settled it, so it makes sense they would have first rights.

 
Nobody boats in Colorado anymore because there are so many people boating.
 
yeah, surgery will begin this friday, so don't get out much at the moment.
But anywho....
Here is one of the reserviors in the mountains of CO. Yeah, no/not much snow means not much melt means not much water. This was running dry, so there was no limit on the amount of fish caught. We caught a lot but it was sometimes challenging as they would go under the rocks to not get caught. Smart fish. But in the end, we didn't lose a single one, so nothing wasted, which is always a good thing.
 

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Here is a wonderful example of the water systems in CO (and indeed, throughout the arid/desert west). You can see a duct on the right. That is the drain from another reservior, higher up. you can see how low this one is and there's not much coming out of the one higher up.

From the one I'm slaying the fish at, behind the blue wall of fish death, drains into yet another one, be it through pipe/conduit or regulated flow stream. These streams often run alongside the highways so you can get an idea of water levels by looking at them if you're used to seeing them, you can guage conditions.

One good thing about droughts is not as many people go to the reserviors in the mountains. The people in the background were the only ones we saw this trip there. The higher you go, the less people, but in exchange, the less water, less fish, less trees....but still plenty of rocks. And finicky weather.
 

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This is "colorful colorado" by cheeseman reservior. Drought and wilfires are part of nature in such arid places. Some species don't drop their seeds until after a fire. "some people/groups" prevent any thinning of timber on govt owned land, even clearing away dead trees, so the yearly fires, natural and/or man made, can have devastating effects.

Some places get closed off to public use due to overuse, abuse, or fire. But really, would you want to set up camp right there? That's the nature of things sometimes though.

My friend has a cabin in the foothills outside of denver--in the pine area. Wonderfully beautiful area it was. Many of their cabins/houses are now very very expensive to insure, VERY expensive. Their best hope is to own them outright and not have to pay for that insurance...but don't know as, well, I used to ride and camp there often, but no mo. Buffalo creek fire blew through most of that.

Note this isn't just in CO though. It's all over the arid mountain west. WY and MT aren't immune. It's nature and sometimes due to and/or excerbated by us humans wanting to live/recreate/"save" areas like this.

Good way to wind up my posting on the "insane" thread here.
 

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Nobody boats in Colorado anymore because there are so many people boating.
"so many" is a relative term. in high use/arid places, there usually is a "carrying capacity" for bodies of water regarding the number of boats they allow. This is why people line up before dawn to get in or get to the head of the waiting line to get in for that day.

Going back to the 90s I'd see these lines and not been there in about 15 years, so going by increased population, I'm sure it's only gotten worse. The few people I knew with boats, moved there with them then sold them as they didn't get much use and wound up being stored for most of the time.

Canoeing/kayaking/paddle boards have become more popular because they are more practical in those places. But they too have limitations, on access and on use. That one reservior I listed, if you are in a boat/board on it, if you are not actively fishing, you aren't allowed on the water. To me, that's crazy but the idea of "pleasure boating" is a foreign concept to areas like that due to scarcity of water.
 
I was talking to a guy in Aurora (Denver suburb, not the one in Illinois) last year. Said he was born and raised there. Appeared to be maybe 40 years old. In the conversation I mentioned how the low water table and lack of water in the foreseeable future was part of the reason I would not be moving back to Colorado. He was taken aback. Denied there was any water shortage and even got a little offended that I thought they were running short of water. Bet money that guy owned a boat. And probably a jet ski too. :)
 

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