Underpowered V10

[dshep]

On a western trip with my 2007 E450 C class 32 footer. Pulling the hills and mountain climbs pulling an auto trailer carrying '14 Mustang has been very disappointing. Owned for 2 years ,first big trip. Resorted to wife driving mustang and following me. Not seeing much improvement. Trailer is rented Uhaul that probably weighs as much as car. Plan on flat tow small car or jeep next year, maybe will help.

 

[AbdRahim]

Only so much torque in a gasser. Patience required.

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

Unfortunately, it is what it is.

Beware, Jeeps are heavy.

 

[Rollin Ollen]

On a western trip with my 2007 E450 C class 32 footer. Pulling the hills and mountain climbs pulling an auto trailer carrying '14 Mustang has been very disappointing. Owned for 2 years ,first big trip. Resorted to wife driving mustang and following me. Not seeing much improvement. Trailer is rented Uhaul that probably weighs as much as car. Plan on flat tow small car or jeep next year, maybe will help.

We flat tow a 2018 2 door Wrangler (weighs about 4000 lbs with stuff I haul in the back) with our 2011 Class A running a V10. I don't notice much difference towing or not but I don't hill climb at 70MPH. We usually travel at 65 and there aren't that many hills that slow us down a lot.

Your Mustang is lighter than my Jeep but your Car Hauler probably weighs just as much so you are probably trying to tug 6 to 7000 lbs. I hope your flat tow helps.

Darrell

 

[BGMAC]

Over the years they changed the V10 quite a bit giving it much more horse power and torque it’s hard to compare. Being an older RV I would say/guess you’re a bit heavier than newer ones as well. You might have a 4 speed trans while others have a 6 speed. As @Texas Clodhopper said, it is what it is. Take your time and enjoy the travels. And @Rollin Ollen is right about the speed. I have a V10 myself and keep it at about 60. I found if I go 55 mph I can get almost 11mpg. At 65 it’s about 7 mpg so speed always costs.

 

[AbdRahim]

speed always costs.

But it is so much fun.

 

[Dan_Frisbie]

The V10 is a 6.8L with 360 hp. It’s not exactly a high torque or high hp engine. You’re driving the aerodynamic equivalent of a giant phone booth and then adding probably 6000 lbs in weight.
It’s going to be slow.
I tow a box trailer with my Class A and we slow quite a bit going uphill. If you feel the need to maintain highway speed on hills, your going to need a BIG DP.

 

[DennisT]

When we had our 32 foot Forester we added the 5 Star Tuner to it. It had the v10 on the E450 chassis.

Made a big difference in performance overall. Was very pleased with it overall.

 

[Stuart W]

I had a 2016 Newmar 3710 V10 class A, this was the first year ford installed the 5 speed trans mission. It was an amazing difference especially on hills. Pulling uphill was no rocket ship but was adequate. Where it scared me was downhill braking while towing.
Momentum is your friend on hills, your entrance speed is critical especially in the OP’s configuration.

 

[MemoriesByTheMile]

Patience will be required.
Spending money to go to a flat tow will save a little bit on weight, but you already said that your wife driving the mustang didn’t make much difference.
An older Class C with an older engine = heavier weight and less torque compared to newer units.
Like others have said, patience will be required. Enjoy the scenery and journey — or realize that you will have to pony up a lot more $ than a flat tow toad to be able to go up mountains/hills without slowing down.

 

[wildebill308]

First thing that pops out is I bet that combination of car and trailer exceeds the weight limit for that RV. Have you weighed the car, trailer combination?
Bill

 

[Rich W.]

The info below is from my own personal experience having been there and done that. It is not based on the claims of other owners and/or after market performance companies, and may contradict either or both, but it is a result of a lot of miles and testing in an effort to make my 2010 E450 perform a little better, meaning pull grades at a lower rpm and accelerate faster so I could enter the freeway at closer to freeway speeds. The result was a conservative but effective upgrade that cost around $2500 in 2012. Things May have changed since then regarding prices and performance product availably and advancements.

These engines, as stated above by others are only capable of so much and while some may claim otherwise, there’s not much in the after-market that will actually help. Three things you can do are a Banks cat-back system, 5 Star tuner, and an intake mod such as K&N that includes the plastic plenum behind the filter. These are also listed in order of effectiveness.

The cat back system opens up the exhaust nicely, isn’t too loud, but requires a lot of work and you have to cut the old system out to get if off the vehicle. There is no benefit to headers as they will only produce more hp (and not that much) at redline and you don’t want to drive at that rpm anyway.

The 5 star tune won’t provide more horse power but it will modify the shift strategy and improve acceleration by changing the fuel/air mix program. The biggest benefit to this is that it allows you to use the next highest gear in most cases (ie 4th instead of 3rd on moderate grades) so you can run at a lower rpm. Improved acceleration helps when entering faster traffic, passing, etc.

The air intake mod theoretically gives a bit more power but it’s loud at high/full throttle and the thing is loud enough at that point anyway. It is said that the stock intake will already flow more air than the engine can use but that’s with a stock exhaust so I still think it has merit. That said, it is most effective at wide open throttle which as mentioned elsewhere is something best avoided for extended periods, such as long grades.

Many people complain of these engines “screaming” while climbing grades but that’s because they are trying to go as fast as possible and running at redline - a practice I see as quite uneconomical, destructive, and uncomfortable (you can’t converse while running at 5500rpm). These are comparatively high rpm engines, but habitually running at redline will cost you more than just at the pump. Better to back off the throttle, run at 3800-4200 (in whatever gear is required) and enjoy the scenery.

Depending on your patience level, you can accomplish all this without any mods. I spend a lot of time on grades running a little over 40mph in my Ventana and other than leap-frogging slower trucks and dodging the faster ones, I don’t mind. With a running start (70 or so) I could do better on shorter climbs but I’d also use a lot more fuel, and it makes virtually no difference on long grades anyway. You’re still going to end up at whatever speed the vehicle is capable of under the conditions.

Since you have a 2007 I’m assuming you have an overdrive on/off switch and not tow/haul. If so this is an advantage as you can shut overdrive off and manually shift on grades as necessary. Tow/haul does have the benefit of a different shift strategy which is marginally helpful going down grades, but I have found the ability to shut off overdrive is much more useful climbing (avoids the constant unwanted automatic gear hunting), and descending grades safely and efficiently (ie saving your brakes) is better accomplished by driver experience than an attempt at idiot-proof engineering (which isn’t possible anyway).

This is all dependent on driving habits, attitude, and your schedule. If you are vacationing, taking your time, enjoying the ride, and want your vehicle to last, all the above is your best bet. If you are in a hurry to get somewhere and don’t mind running at 5500rpm up grades so you can go a few mph faster, then none of this really matters because that’s where you develop the most hp and the mods above only allow you to develop a little more hp at lower rpm but still won’t make 360hp at 4200.

Also a Mustang on a U-Haul car trailer is towing too much - those are great trailers but HEAVY. My guess is your towing capacity is 5k and you are surely well over that. I towed 5k once and that was enough. My typical load was around 2500 (Polaris Ranger on a light weight trailer) and even that slowed me down considerably on grades.

PS: it’s nice to reminisce and write about something other than DPs and diesel emissions. I’ve enjoyed dredging up memories of RVs past. Also keep in mind that results from 5e Class A and Class C V10 differ, because the Class A has 3 valve heads and IIRC they are not compatible with the 2 valve block so an expensive conversion is not in the cards. And really your goal should be more power at lower engine speeds and more breathing won’t help there anyway. If I were doing this I’d start with 5 star (cheapest and probably most effective) and go from there.

PPS: sorry about the long post. Those accustomed to my responses and explanations won’t be surprised and will just and say there he goes again. But I like to get as much info as possible in one post so there it is.

 

[wildebill308]

Good post on the V10. Basic improvements with out getting to radical. I had always hoped Ford would put the V10 on a pantograph and build a big block version. That would have covered their need for a big gas engine.
I don't think cubic inches is the whole answer as people still need to learn how to drive a big rig.
Bill