Winnebago Forza vs. Tiffin Allegro Red

[AmyB]

Hi everyone,
I posted this in the new member forum but posting again here. My husband is retiring this summer and we've been researching and looking at RVs for the past year and are looking to buy a used Class A Diesel that is around 34' to 36'. We also plan to have a tow car. We are not going full time but plan to take several extended trips per year. We have looked at many brands and basically narrowed it down to Winnebago Forza 34T and Tiffin Allegro Red 33A (I also like Newmar but think that may be out of our budget). He likes the Forza but I like the Allegro Red floorplan better. He wants to buy a used RV that is no older than 2020, so our budget limits us with Tiffin in that regard since we would likely need to look at one no newer than a 2018 (unless we found a good deal on a 2019). I don't think an "older" Tiffin is a problem based on their reputation. He thinks a 2020 Forza is the way to go but I'm not convinced (I'm not a fan of the queen bed and 2 seater couch). I'd welcome any input on any of the above as we continue to debate this

 

[marc2912]

Welcome. You're not sharing much on your requirement besides length, age and that you'll have a toad. Can you share the things that are important to you in what you're using to make a decision.

 

[AmyB]

Welcome. You're not sharing much on your requirement besides length, age and that you'll have a toad. Can you share the things that are important to you in what you're using to make a decision.

Hi Marc,
If we are going to be in the coach for weeks at a time on longer trips, I think floorplan is a big factor. Both the Forza and Allegro have good storage/drawers/cabinets in the coach as well as a washer/dryer so those check our boxes. However, the mid entry door on the Forza takes away usable space and all of the seating is on one side with just a 2 seater loveseat and then bench dinette next to that. That's barely enough room for me and our 18 lb dog to sit My husband says he can spin the drivers seat around and watch TV from that but it still feels tight to me. I just don't know if I am overthinking it and it's not that big of a deal. The Forza also only comes with a Queen and I'd prefer a King since that's what we have at home but that's not a deal breaker. Although most of the Allegros come with Kings. The Allegro has a front entry door so there is room for a long couch plus a recliner but the TV/fireplace are at the end of the couch, which my husband doesn't care for. Reputable manufacturer and 175k all in is our max price unless there are some other upgrades already included like blue ox towing package, or solar, etc. Newmar was also on my list, and it looks like 2017-2018 Ventana LEs would be the closest option we'd have based on what's listed on RV Trader right now. So if my husband won't budge on what year used coach he thinks we should get, who knows if we'll find something we agree on since most Newmars and Tiffins in our price range are likely going to be 2017-2018. I know Winnebago has been around a long time but I'm just not totally sold on them and especially the year 2020 since I've heard that quality wasn't great that year due to Covid demand but there are others who say that's not true. So not sure what to believe

 

[marc2912]

I totally understand where you're coming from. Is there a reason your husband won't flex on year? This isn't like a car and these diesel have tons of life left on older models and you can get a lot more bang for your buck. I picked up a 2015 Dutch Star DP last year and it still ran me close to 250K. I just would really consider making sure you don't buy something you're not going to be happy with or grow out of too fast. New rigs have as many, if not more, issues than older one that already have had all those issues addressed.

 

[marc2912]

Another thing you might want to look at is tow capacity and engine size. Make sure you have plenty of margin for towing whatever your toad will be and ask people who own one their thoughts on towing. Even with the 450hp cummins I have I feel like it struggles on hills towing my wrangler.

 

[Scotttkd2]

Most people that are on their second, third or more RV will tell you that it is all about the floor plan if you are going to spend any amount of time in it. After that, towing capacity, storage, etc come into play. If a diesel I agree with Marc, you would probably be very pleased with a 2016-2018 model year. Also, older used models are generally recognized to be much better build quality than the more recent "crank them out as fast as we can" last few years, and then the covid years builds. If I could do my purchase again I would get an older coach over my 2020 due to build quality alone.

 

[AmyB]

I totally understand where you're coming from. Is there a reason your husband won't flex on year? This isn't like a car and these diesel have tons of life left on older models and you can get a lot more bang for your buck. I picked up a 2015 Dutch Star DP last year and it still ran me close to 250K. I just would really consider making sure you don't buy something you're not going to be happy with or grow out of too fast. New rigs have as many, if not more, issues than older one that already have had all those issues addressed.

I totally understand where you're coming from. Is there a reason your husband won't flex on year? This isn't like a car and these diesel have tons of life left on older models and you can get a lot more bang for your buck. I picked up a 2015 Dutch Star DP last year and it still ran me close to 250K. I just would really consider making sure you don't buy something you're not going to be happy with or grow out of too fast. New rigs have as many, if not more, issues than older one that already have had all those issues addressed.

Regarding the year, I assume he feels that a 3 year old coach is old enough and is worried that anything older could come with more problems, but I think it could be the opposite and a 5 year old coach from 2018 with not really high mileage isn't necessarily a bad thing. I am hoping the input I get from other owners on this forum will help me back up that argument

 

[Headhunter]

Hi Amy:

Like others have said floor plan is crucial on making your decision. I have a 2021 Tiffin Red 33AA now. My previous coach was a 2019 Tiffin Open Road, gas , 32SA, 34ft long. It had the mid entrance door. It was ok but sacrificed living space in the middle.

Now forget floor plan for a minute. What about service? Is there a dealer near you that can reliably fix either brand coach? What brand dealer is closer? I also had a Itasca, deluxe brand of Winne, 36G Diesel Pusher. I had a lot of problems. IMHO opinion, and its just mine, the Tiffin has a better build quality over all compared to the Winnie Forza.

.I also think a two to three year coach is a good compromise. There has been so many technology advancements in the past three years that it is mind boggling. If you really want a Tiffin, make sure you get the Cummins 360. There are major differences between the 340 & 360 class.

HH

 

[bpaikman]

Hi everyone,
I posted this in the new member forum but posting again here. My husband is retiring this summer and we've been researching and looking at RVs for the past year and are looking to buy a used Class A Diesel that is around 34' to 36'. We also plan to have a tow car. We are not going full time but plan to take several extended trips per year. We have looked at many brands and basically narrowed it down to Winnebago Forza 34T and Tiffin Allegro Red 33A (I also like Newmar but think that may be out of our budget). He likes the Forza but I like the Allegro Red floorplan better. He wants to buy a used RV that is no older than 2020, so our budget limits us with Tiffin in that regard since we would likely need to look at one no newer than a 2018 (unless we found a good deal on a 2019). I don't think an "older" Tiffin is a problem based on their reputation. He thinks a 2020 Forza is the way to go but I'm not convinced (I'm not a fan of the queen bed and 2 seater couch). I'd welcome any input on any of the above as we continue to debate this

please check the specs on the Forza. It might be called a 34T but it is closer to 36 feet in some models. When we were doing research for our current RV, we also considered the Forza, but was surprised to find it too long for our needs. That model name irritatingly deceptive.
I also happened to observe a couple of them that were for sale during the hottest time of the market, and did not sell, probably partly due to peeling upholstery in a very new model (3-4 years old). It sat on PPL Motorhome's lot during the spring and summer of 2020, when RV's were flying off the lot, and as far as I can tell it never sold.
i'm partial to Winnebago's because our first one was a Winnebago and it was so very comfortable. But they made a terrible mistake when they started using that "spray on" (bonded?) leather. I have seen other Forzas that seemed difficult to sell. I don't think it has a good layout for a 36-foot floorplan - no window in bathroom either.
I like the Tiffin 33 AA. It's a good coach for the price and size. It has a king size bed, a window in the bath (rare in small coaches), and I liked the living area. in my humble opinion, I think it's a good idea to go with what the wife likes - no bias here.
We went with a Newmar because we lucked onto one that fit our needs, and my husband wanted a Newmar. But it has no bathroom window - not a dealbreaker.
I still prefer the layout of the Tiffin, but I never could find one that didn't have upholstery issues.
and about the 35 foot thing. I too had a limit of 35 feet on my specifications because that will get you into more parks. But it's not always a good thing.
I'm going to discuss this in a separate post - it's important.

 

[Wayne Daul]

You should also consider Newmar Kountry Star will fit your budget better.

 

[AmyB]

Hi Amy:

Like others have said floor plan is crucial on making your decision. I have a 2021 Tiffin Red 33AA now. My previous coach was a 2019 Tiffin Open Road, gas , 32SA, 34ft long. It had the mid entrance door. It was ok but sacrificed living space in the middle.

Now forget floor plan for a minute. What about service? Is there a dealer near you that can reliably fix either brand coach? What brand dealer is closer? I also had a Itasca, deluxe brand of Winne, 36G Diesel Pusher. I had a lot of problems. IMHO opinion, and its just mine, the Tiffin has a better build quality over all compared to the Winnie Forza.

.I also think a two to three year coach is a good compromise. There has been so many technology advancements in the past three years that it is mind boggling. If you really want a Tiffin, make sure you get the Cummins 360. There are major differences between the 340 & 360 class.

HH

 

[AmyB]

Thanks for the input. There is a Campers Inn 20 minutes from us that services both brands and a Cummins service center 30 minutes away. We did see the difference in a 340 vs 360 and there are actually very few used 340s out there so we didn't even really they existed for awhile until we saw one pop up on RV Trader. I have a question about the 33AA floor plan. Do you have any issue with the TV being at the end of the couch? My husband says he doesn't like turning sideways to watch and I told him he can just pull the recliner out that is next to the couch and face the TV. I don't think it's an issue but it's one of the floorplan disagreements we have It's not like we will be in there watching TV all of the time, but we do watch a lot of Netflix and Prime series together in the evenings so the TV will definitely be used.

 

[AmyB]

please check the specs on the Forza. It might be called a 34T but it is closer to 36 feet in some models. When we were doing research for our current RV, we also considered the Forza, but was surprised to find it too long for our needs. That model name irritatingly deceptive.
I also happened to observe a couple of them that were for sale during the hottest time of the market, and did not sell, probably partly due to peeling upholstery in a very new model (3-4 years old). It sat on PPL Motorhome's lot during the spring and summer of 2020, when RV's were flying off the lot, and as far as I can tell it never sold.
i'm partial to Winnebago's because our first one was a Winnebago and it was so very comfortable. But they made a terrible mistake when they started using that "spray on" (bonded?) leather. I have seen other Forzas that seemed difficult to sell. I don't think it has a good layout for a 36-foot floorplan - no window in bathroom either.
I like the Tiffin 33 AA. It's a good coach for the price and size. It has a king size bed, a window in the bath (rare in small coaches), and I liked the living area. in my humble opinion, I think it's a good idea to go with what the wife likes - no bias here.
We went with a Newmar because we lucked onto one that fit our needs, and my husband wanted a Newmar. But it has no bathroom window - not a dealbreaker.
I still prefer the layout of the Tiffin, but I never could find one that didn't have upholstery issues.
and about the 35 foot thing. I too had a limit of 35 feet on my specifications because that will get you into more parks. But it's not always a good thing.
I'm going to discuss this in a separate post - it's important.

You are correct about the Forza 34T length. The actual length is 35'6". Also, I didn't think about a window in the bathroom - that would be nice to have but not a deal breaker. Do you like your Ventana? I've seen some Ventana LEs that look like they could be a good fit for us. But I have to convince my husband to consider an older model in order to fit the budget (2017 or 2018). I don't think the 3436 has a queen bed, but that's not a deal breaker for me and I'd much rather have a larger seating/living area if I have to choose one or the other. I also like how the TV is caddy-corner on a cabinet in the 3436 and doesn't pop up on a lift behind the dinette/bench seating area like some of the other Ventana LEs. Curious to hear your thoughts on the RV length and park access. We prefer shorter length, more so because we are newbies and don't want to bite off more than we can chew. We plan to visit parks but realize if we can't find space to camp in the park, it may be better/easier to find a campground near the park.

 

[Jabber Jaw]

Suggest that you stay with either the Tiffin, or Newmar! You will not regret it.
Driving, handling, & manipulating a 34'-36' coach is very, very close. If you go with a 36' coach, in 12 months, you will be happy you did!
The Ventana 3436 would be a great model to fulfill yours, & your husbands desires!
Whatever you choose, Good Luck!

Allan

 

[bpaikman]

We had a 2006 Winnebago Journey 36G, which is the same thing as an Itasca 36G. I loved it. We didn't have a lot of problems, and it actually impressed me how well it lasted. I loved the power sleeper sofa and wish ai could replace our Newmar's sofa with something like that, but I can't find one anywhere.
. When we sold it, it was 12 years old, 80K miles, and everything was still working great.
But Winnebago, at athat time, was dinicky about service - I don't recall exactly what was the issue (since we didn't have anything major go wrong), but it was something like, only Winnebago service centers could do certain things. I'd check on that.
The quality of the build depends on the model.
Our Winnibago was a bit more luxurious than our current Newmar 3436, which is a entry-level model. It lacks some of the bells and whistles.
I feel like that Winnebago we had was more user-friendly thsn Newmar.
For example, probably because the head of the bed is on a slide-out, Newmar doesn;t put any power plug-ins by the bed in those smaller models. That means, no clock, no phone charge by the bed. We easily solved that problem, but the bedside storage is tiny - think tissue box, chapstick, water bottle, phone charger, clock, reading material. The nightstand area is smaller than a 8-1/2x11 sheet of paper. Manageable, but still, I had a full size bedside table in our old coach.
When we had the 36-1/2 foot coach, it had way more storage than we needed, so I often thought if it was 35 feet instead of 36.5, it'd be perfect. Ehhhh. lol. It all depends.
Less storage underneath our 35-footer, smaller bathroom (that worked out fine - it has plenty storage).. Bigger bedroom (more floor space for dressing - we love that.). Much more counter space in kitchen for cooking and prep. Very important to us. Living area and dining area is so-so. BUT the TV location is a huge improvement on the old Winnebago (over the cab, so you had to turn sideways to watch - not comfortable). However, haha, we never watch TV.

 

[bpaikman]

Suggest that you stay with either the Tiffin, or Newmar! You will not regret it.
Driving, handling, & manipulating a 34'-36' coach is very, very close. If you go with a 36' coach, in 12 months, you will be happy you did!
The Ventana 3436 would be a great model to fulfill yours, & your husbands desires!
Whatever you choose, Good Luck!

Allan

I agree, Tiffin or Newmar, but the cheaper Newmars like ours - I think they cut corners in design to make it affordable.
For example, I want to upgrade the door lock. So far, we've been unable to find anything to fit our door, due to some unique details in its configuration.
It's a very tightly designed coach, it hasn't been easy to do any modifications. I wanted to replace the flooring - got an estimate of $30,000. For real. Because they said they'd have to essentially remove all 3 slides, snd since one of them is a full-wall slide, not, a small job.
I decided to live with the dark flooring, lol. An area rug does wonders.

 

[bpaikman]

Oh, and BTW, Our Newmar is 2014 - we couldn't afford anything newer than 7 years old. There are pluses and minuses to older models, I prefer lower mileage, bit not TOO low, We apparently escaped the peeling leather problem in newer models - our sofa, whatever it is, is in pristine condition.

 

[bpaikman]

Oh, and our old 36.5' Winnebago had a 350 Caterpillar and weighed roughly 28K....
Our 'new' Newmar has a 340 Cummins and weighs roughly 31K.
We'd taken both over many Colorado mountain passes, towing the same 4000-lb toad. No issues. I can't tell any difference. No, we don't pass many vehicles (just the gassers lol), but it hasn't been difficult to get up the mountains. The 18-wheelers pass us easily, but they probably have a lot of hp.

 

[bpaikman]

Suggest that you stay with either the Tiffin, or Newmar! You will not regret it.
Driving, handling, & manipulating a 34'-36' coach is very, very close. If you go with a 36' coach, in 12 months, you will be happy you did!
The Ventana 3436 would be a great model to fulfill yours, & your husbands desires!
Whatever you choose, Good Luck!

Allan

I agree - we've had 36.5 and 35. No difference in handling.

 

[bpaikman]

BTW, on YouTube, Look up "Today is Someday" with Stacey and (can't think of his name - ex-Navy guy, very hands-on in repairs) .... they have a 2016 or 2017 Allegro 33AA for years. Full-timers.