2022 - Newmar Quality Call to Action

[redbaron]

In this post, I am going to show several examples of current production coaches being delivered to actual owners. I am intentionally not naming the dealers and or owners of the coach, as it is not my intent to get involved with a specific issue, but rather to discuss the overall quality of Newmar, and to make other new owners aware of poor construction. If you wish to name your coach, that is fine. Please do not name other people’s coaches. Also please refrain from naming the dealer, as the dealer is not responsible for the build and construction of the coach. This is a Newmar Corporate issue, and we need to all work together to get Newmar to listen to its owners.

It is time that we hold Newmar accountable for poor quality. If you have recently purchased a Newmar coach, or have one that is under the factory one year warranty -- you need to stand up and be heard.

Now is the time.

Please read my blog post on this subject located here:

2022 – Newmar Quality Call to Action

I am writing this post regarding the quality of Newmar coaches, and how the lack of quality control is currently affecting production. In this post, I am going to show several examples of current p…

newmarhoots.com

 

[redbaron]

The summary of my blog post has this Call to Action

We owe it to Newmar, the dealers, and to ourselves to make Newmar aware of the quality issues. The long-term damage that will come from acceptance of poorly manufactured RV’s will affect all of us. As owners of Newmar coaches, our investment will be lost if the product quality continues to drop. This affects us short term and long term.

Newmar has routinely increased pricing yearly, and recently multiple times per year. The justification for this increase is the additional hardships associated with labor and supply chain. For this reason alone, we must insist on the product that we are being delivered meets the very standard we have been promised.

There is a lot of power in numbers. I have personally proven this many times, most recently with the Freightliner Dash Recall that I was able to organize. It will not take long for Newmar to implement the very necessary quality control if they start seeing massive amounts customer complaints.

I think that most people have not taken the time to look for the problems that exist. Their assumption is the dealership or Newmar already did this, so it is not necessary for the customer.

The opposite is true. Only the customer is incentivized to complain. The dealer is in the middle, so they are not going to go looking for a problem. Newmar is already selling every coach they can manufacture, and they are behind on production due to supply chain. They are playing the odds game hoping that only 2% of all customers will notice these problems, and they are right. Many of the coaches that I have seen are owned by private persons already. They did not know they had a problem, and I was left struggling with how to handle the situation. Obviously, I want my coach perfect, but in the grand scheme, I want the overall quality of Newmar to remain superb.

This post is my solution to that dilemma. By documenting what you should look for, I am letting you find the issues for yourself. Once you find it, I implore you to document it and open a case with Newmar, not your dealer. Newmar needs to hear from its owners directly. They will coordinate with your local dealer for repairs.

Feel free to post your findings here. If you want information shared anonymously, send me a message and I can post additional findings. The goal is to make Newmar aware of the problems, so that it can be corrected.

 

[turbopilot]

I admire your initiative. I got my first (and only Newmar) in 2017. It took me a year to "finish the build". A few months after purchase I got one of those post purchase customer surveys. I totally unloaded on the poor lady who was a contractor. Two weeks later I got a call from New Aire "Specialist" at the factory. Same fellow whose name was on the sticker in the window at delivery. We went through the laundry list again. That was the last I heard from Newmar. They go through the actions of customer service and the proclaim the illusion of build quality but it is all a facade. Given the structure of the business and the current glut of orders I see zero chance anything will change.

Once I got the coach "finished" we a few good years with minor problems. But I am done with big, complex class A's. A machine that complex with so many systems must be built right. The pain is simply not worth the gain.

 

[redbaron]

I have had experience in the past with Newmar. They are slow to respond, but persistence and overwhelming supportive evidence has always worked for me.

I have heard your experience along with many others. It almost appears as though there is a spinning wheel as to who is going to win---the customer or newmar. I seem to spin a win each time, as do many people. Then there are others, like yourself, that seem to spin a loss every time.

It is for this reason that I am publishing my process for finding flaws and educating others as to what should not be accepted.

Quality is slipping fast at Newmar.

Owners of older coaches, such as yourself, cannot actively particpiate with this call to action since there is no longer a warranty for Newmar. You will benefit from this action though, as the resale value of your coach will be preserved, and if you choose to purchase a new newmar in the future, the quality will be improved.

 

[turbopilot]

I have had experience in the past with Newmar. They are slow to respond, but persistence and overwhelming supportive evidence has always worked for me.

I have heard your experience along with many others. It almost appears as though there is a spinning wheel as to who is going to win---the customer or newmar. I seem to spin a win each time, as do many people. Then there are others, like yourself, that seem to spin a loss every time.

It is for this reason that I am publishing my process for finding flaws and educating others as to what should not be accepted.

Quality is slipping fast at Newmar.

Owners of older coaches, such as yourself, cannot actively particpiate with this call to action since there is no longer a warranty for Newmar. You will benefit from this action though, as the resale value of your coach will be preserved, and if you choose to purchase a new newmar in the future, the quality will be improved.

I sold mine a few months ago. New owner is having a good experience so far. I did a good job finishing it. The biggest issue for the New Aire and many of the new coaches is that they are all electric. An all electric coach with the worlds worst electrical system quality control is a potent mix.

 

[sheridany]

There is a reason I went to a different brand not because I could nor did I really want to because I figured out how to work with Newmar and they stepped up and did me right many times.

I had a new coach on order last year and after reading and seeing so many quality issues, some so basic, I walked from the deal. Of course not every coach has issues but a lot more do than in the times past. It’s one thing when you are working the kinks out in the first year and another when it is blatant poor quality that stares you in the face after you just signed the papers. I lost faith in Newmar despite my positive experience with the second one I had. I truly hope Newmar turns this around after hearing your voices loud and clear.

 

[FLSteve]

@redbaron ... as a person that currently has a new coach on order, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. It has certainly opened my eyes and I will do my part to try and push this along once I take delivery. To date my overall experience with Newmar has been a good one, but it has taken some effort and staying on top of things as they go through the system.

FLSteve

 

[Neemer]

Perhaps I have a unicorn, but I have had none of the issues reported. I believe that is in part because I did FPU and had an outstanding tech prepare my coach for delivery. I’m seven months into ownership and have nothing to return to Napanee for at this point. I will be doing a few months of continuous travel over the winter, so perhaps something will surface that I am presently unaware of.

 

[turbopilot]

So much of the ownership experience is context. There were some great discussions on the other forum as I struggled through the first year of ownership while other Newmar owners reported no major issues. My experience was the worst mix of misery. The coach was delivered in California far from the mothership, so a return to the factory was not feasible. My local Newmar dealer is reported to be worst dealer in the country. I could not deal with them. The nearest FreightLiner dealer was 100 miles away in the congested LA basin and they would not take appointments. I was on my own. So that situation amplified every new problem I discovered. I could see how someone living close to the factory with good local dealer and Freightliner support could have a different experience. But as @redbaron stated it all starts with build quality control. You really don't need a good local dealer or Freightliner if the bus never breaks.

 

[redbaron]

@turbopilot we have posted for years about quality. Many of us have taken the time to improve and fix the problems on our own.

for both my 2013 and 2019, I paid for FPU. For both I spent 4+ weeks each time at the factory the first year, and 3+ weeks the 2nd year, just to get the coach dialed in.

Even with all of that work, I still had to personally fix the wiring issues, the Girard Awning issues (missing lock nuts), and live with problematic designs of the tank sensor, and various other items.

I love the RV life. It is a hobby for me, it is a fun way to travel, and it is a great way to meet people. I found myself in a position where I could buy another brand, but decided that the London Aire would be a perfect fit.

I am almost to the point of regretting the decision to purchase a newmar. The quality is pathetic. It is deplorable. It is offensive. Having said all of that, it is still much better than Entegra. There are many other areas I could pick on Newmar. Electrical, Plumbing, Appliances, etc. There is a lot that needs to be done with the coach, but the core of what Newmar is should never so poorly delivered as it is today. I dare say if this is not corrected, the brand is going to lose value very quickly.

I am going to continue with my purchase of the 2022 London Aire. I am going to persist and insist on perfect paint, cabinet, and structure, and I know I will end up with it.

I struggled with how to proceed with this post, as I do not want it to be a negative post, or Newmar bashing. At the same time we cannot ignore the problem.

I hope that by raising consumer awareness, we will raise newmar awareness. I am sure there is someone within Nappanee that has been asking for changes, but has been overruled by the accounting department. I am asking all new owners to help make Newmar aware of the problem, and ensure that Matt Millers vision is delivered.

 

[sheridany]

I should probably stay out of this thread since I don't own a Newmar anymore and I really think @redbaron is right 100% in his last post and every owner should document their issues. My only concern is Newmar is owned by WGO. As a holding company with diverse brands where 90%+ is owned by institutions including Blackrock who is the largest owner, they are focused on profits first and so you are going to have beat your drums loudly so they hear and hopefully they don’t ignore. just my 2 Cents. I‘ll stop here.

 

[redbaron]

@sheridany you are correct. WGO does own Newmar, and they are focused on profits. Profits can be considered in short term or long term. In the short term, a company would buy newmar and sell it off for the value of its indivudal components.

I don't see that happening with Newmar. If that was going to be done, then WGO would have purchased Tiffin.

Newmar is a premium brand. Foretravel is the only close competitor now, and they do not have near the market saturation that Newmar does.

For long term products, the Newmar value cannot drop. Value for newmar is based on quality. So a small investment in quality will keep the profits high. WGO has proven itself to be in the business for the longterm.

Accountants will be accountants, and they will push cost savings measures. This has been done with Newmar, and the impact to that decision needs to be immediate from the consumers. Done properly, the path forward will be clear for the accountants, and the brand value will become priority once again.

 

[MapNerd]

I can’t participate as I am out of warranty but I’ll corroborate some of what has already been said with my own experiences.

1. My coach has been mostly problem free and I attribute that to doing an FPU and my post-it note approach to it where I put red post-it notes on every item I found a problem with, wrote on the post-it note what my problem was, and told the tech that I wasn’t leaving FPU until they were all gone, he was not allowed to remove the post-it notes and his job was to make me remove each one by resolving the issue. It started off slow but when they realized on Wednesday that I was dead serious and had no issues with staying the weekend and into next week or the following, problems seemed to start getting solved very fast.
2. I have had several post-FPU issues that I considered major and dozens of minor issues. The major ones were:

• Girard awnings anchored at improper locations
• Grey tank drain clog due to excessive use of pipe glue
• Finish wearing off of cabinets and driver and passenger side valences literally falling apart and off the wall

Newmar addressed all of the major issues and on several occasions, when I was in FL, sent their own NewServe mobile technician to my
Campground to fix the minor issues (FWS alignment, water pump replacement, FWS alignment part two) on site. The key I have found in working with Newmar is, as was said earlier, documentation, explaining in reasonable terms why it’s Newmar’s responsibility to resolve the issue, not expecting something for nothing, and using honey to catch your flies, not vinegar.

I currently have a couple of issues right now that I have been going back and forth with Newmar over for the last few weeks. They are currently minor issues but they have the potential, if left unresolved to become major ones. I feel confident that by continuing to follow up, be reasonable, and explain my position that they will come through for me, which makes the premium I paid for a Newmar worth the cost.

I’m have considered upgrading the coach a couple of times but every time I think about doing it, I come back to the question of the quality of units being produced right now. My coach hasn’t been perfect, but other than the grey tank no issue has ever stopped me in my tracks and Newmar got the grey tank issue resolved within 24 hours. When I look at how many units they are producing now, and how fast, and then I add on the exacerbations of supply and labor shortages, there’s just no way that I can see them building a solid unit without substantially lowering their production numbers, which has absolutely zero chance of happening. So while “there has never been a better time to upgrade” - words said by a man in the RV industry that I have great admiration and respect for, I also have to realize that given the state of the industry, in many ways there has never been a worse time to upgrade. You have to wait longer and pay more for a unit that is almost certain to have some substantial defects. As a full timer, that’s just not something I am willing to do because every defect that requires an unplanned visit to the factory or a dealer is a visit that severely impacts my lifestyle.

I really hope Newmar listens and does what it takes to fix the issues because I would love to upgrade with confidence at some point.

 

[NWIP]

I am out of warranty on our 2020 DS and have had the basic 1 year issues resolved because I was able to wait till I went thru Nappanee to have fixed. We are happy with our coach but have discussed upgrading to a London Air in 2024 but quality issues as they are, probably will keep us in our Dutch Star.

 

[J&JD]

The question I always come back to is where is the cost savings for Newmar when they have to pay a dealer to do all the warranty/pre delivery repairs on a poorly built coach? Wouldn’t it be much more cost effective for them to have solid quality control during construction and a thorough inspection before the coach leaves the factory?

 

[redbaron]

The question I always come back to is where is the cost savings for Newmar when they have to pay a dealer to do all the warranty/pre delivery repairs on a poorly built coach? Wouldn’t it be much more cost effective for them to have solid quality control during construction and a thorough inspection before the coach leaves the factory?

Absolutely.

The savings is when 90% of problems go unnoticed. I am hoping to make this 10% unnoticed, and force change.

 

[Neal]

How about a "Dealer Quality Call to Action" to reject a product received and return it to the factory to get it right before delivery to the customer? Dealers will have far more power in getting Newmar to resolve Q/A issues than having customers fight them.

 

[turbopilot]

How about a "Dealer Quality Call to Action" to reject a product received and return it to the factory to get it right before delivery to the customer? Dealers will have far more power in getting Newmar to resolve Q/A issues than having customers fight them.

I was told when my 2018 NA started it's delivery trip to California that the ownership of the coach officially changed from Newmar to the dealer as the new coach drove off the yard at the factory. If this is true the dealers would have to return their coach to factory for quality issues. Not likely going to happen if this is true.

 

[redbaron]

Dealers have far less influence than the consumer does.

A dealer is only a middle man in the transaction. They are frequently denied warranty requests, that are later approved when the consumer calls the manufacturer directly.

The dealer does not have a vested interest in pointing out quality flaws. It delays them getting paid, and upsets their customer who will end up blaming the dealer for the quality concern.

This is why I want consumers going direct to newmar. Newmar needs to hear from the owner and needs to see the problem directly.

 

[redbaron]

As @turbopilot stated, the dealer pays newmar in full before the coach leaves the newmar lot.

Most dealers cannot afford to let a single coach be sent back to newmar for an indefinite period of time awaiting repairs.