Battery life

[RC9660]

I use a deep cycle lead acid battery and when not dry camping leave my trailer plugged in year round. Still batteries seem to have a short life. Are the more expensive batteries worth the price tag?

 

[Neal]

Do your batteries require keeping water topped off? Maybe the battery tender you're using isn't properly maintaining the batteries? The alternative is to charge them and disconnect them. Your battery manufacturer should have storage recommendations.

 

[Rich W.]

Give this a read: How To Maintain Batteries - Deep Cycle Battery Store It will help you get more life out of your batteries.

As to “more expensive batteries worth the price tag”, it depends on what they are selling. AGM batteries cost more and are a better fit for RVs for a number of reasons. But one brand over another is pretty subjective. Look at battery specs, where they are made, and even weight.

 

[Scooterfan]

What's a "short life". I use the same type (Marine Deep Cycle) and treat them the same. I'm happy with five years effective life. I use the Flow-Rite watering system (easy) to maintain. I could probably get better life, but I'm not going to disconnect until I buy new ones I use Interstate Marine Deep Cycle from Costco. Blessings

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Yes they are worth the price!
I place some conditions on that comment however.

AGM, Covers many types, so this is the "why" you are wondering about.

A low cycle failure rate can be attributed to the addition of antimony in the plates. The problem with a battery maintainer is the constant plating of antimony on the outside surface of the plates.

The cure for plating is not using the antimony or magnesium I believe in the plate structure.

Two batteries that I have had experience with are the spiral blue/red/or yellow top optima battery line. They have pure lead plates.

The other one is the one I currently use called the Northstar Blue+, the battery uses pure lead with a carbon additive in the negative plate. There may well be others, but these I have experience with.

Remember, pure lead, no plating, the plates will give up the power stored in them. And all lead batteries are likely to use antimony/magnesium in the plates to make them physically stronger, except for these two that I know of, there may be others.

 

[Travelskip]

I think nowadays it is wise to go the LFP battery route.
Less weight and more capacity. And no worries having them sit for months.
Any lead acid battery can only use about 50% of its rated capacity without damaging it prematurely.
Not so with a LFP battery. You can get the full capacity out of it. . . if you need to.
And they don't require any maintenance. No corroded contacts, no water to replenish.

 

[Wemustrv]

I think nowadays it is wise to go the LFP battery route.
Less weight and more capacity. And no worries having them sit for months.
Any lead acid battery can only use about 50% of its rated capacity without damaging it prematurely.
Not so with a LFP battery. You can get the full capacity out of it. . . if you need to.
And they don't require any maintenance. No corroded contacts, no water to replenish.

There is one issue with the lithium batteries they do not handle extreme cold very well. Otherwise a great choice.

 

[Wemustrv]

I use a deep cycle lead acid battery and when not dry camping leave my trailer plugged in year round. Still batteries seem to have a short life. Are the more expensive batteries worth the price tag?

I have switched my batteries to AGM Absorption glass mat and I love them. I looked at Lithium however while great performers they one draw back is very cold. Lithium do not like extreme cold and should be removed is sitting in cold for long periods. There are Lithium batteries with built in technology to help this issue.

 

[Travelskip]

The cold is not as big of an issue like people think. If the battery temp is below 32F just charge with 0.1C and below 14F charge with only 0.05C
And as Wemustrv mentioned, the battery and BMS manufacturers took this in consideration and most good LFP batteries have now a heating element inside.
I am using LFPs to power my office in case of the numerous power outages we have in FL and have also one in my 5th wheel.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

The cold is not as big of an issue like people think. If the battery temp is below 32F just charge with 0.1C and below 14F charge with only 0.05C
And as Wemustrv mentioned, the battery and BMS manufacturers took this in consideration and most good LFP batteries have now a heating element inside.
I am using LFPs to power my office in case of the numerous power outages we have in FL and have also one in my 5th wheel.

The 32 degree is a big number! Dendrites are formed charging below that temperature.
The battery works as a heater simply by discharge, any BMS is designed to protect the battery.

There is nothing more dramatic than lithium on melt down. Melt down happens when the battery reaches that magic number. That number can be reached when the Dendrites grow large enough, or high loads are applied bringing the temperature up to that magic number.


One thought!!! Electronics never fail!!!

 

[Wemustrv]

We store our motorhome in the winter and in Iowa it can get to -30 or colder with -104 degree wind chill this would not be a good setting for LFP unless powered up or a good trickle charger. We do keep ours powered up however if we had a power failure in this weather the LFP batteries would be toast.

 

[Joe Hogan]

possibly the battery has a good BMS (battery management system) that will warm the battery pack during charge cycles. A thermal barrier, blanket, insulation bats, etc and a small heat source like a light bulb in a confined area might help as well.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

We store our motorhome in the winter and in Iowa it can get to -30 or colder with -104 degree wind chill this would not be a good setting for LFP unless powered up or a good trickle charger. We do keep ours powered up however if we had a power failure in this weather the LFP batteries would be toast.

Sitting is not the problem, charging is. There is nothing to freeze, but charging under your stated conditions could burn the place down.

 

[TheLooks]

And no one mentioned the cost of LiPo....

 

[Kevin D Pem]

And no one mentioned the cost of LiPo....

I believe comparable to other tech.

 

[Travelskip]

Well, the cost of a LFP (not Lipo) battery are negligible.
Absolute no maintenance. They are probably good for 10 or more years, have less weight, much better Amp to weight ratio, don’t need an extra battery compartment, no gases, no smell and no worries about overcharging, overdischarging etc. The internal BMS takes care of this. The good ones have also an active balancer.
Last year we did not use our camper and the LFP battery was still at 13.2V, almost the same when we left it.
I did some maintenance during the year, needed some light and had to move the slide outs several times. Still at 13.2V
Since there is no power at the RV storage there was no trickle charger and no charging in between.

 

[TheLooks]

Well, the cost of a LFP (not Lipo) battery are negligible.
Absolute no maintenance. They are probably good for 10 or more years, have less weight, much better Amp to weight ratio, don’t need an extra battery compartment, no gases, no smell and no worries about overcharging, overdischarging etc. The internal BMS takes care of this. The good ones have also an active balancer.
Last year we did not use our camper and the LFP battery was still at 13.2V, almost the same when we left it.
I did some maintenance during the year, needed some light and had to move the slide outs several times. Still at 13.2V
Since there is no power at the RV storage there was no trickle charger and no charging in between.

Well that was pretty smug, I am well aware of the difference. I agree with all the positives, but your statement about cost being negligible is laughable. The solar install at school used 8 batteries at $1700 each. I can buy a lot of lead acid type batteries for $1700. In fact, they are more expensive now with inflation and etc. happening in the economy.

 

[Travelskip]

Well that was pretty smug, I am well aware of the difference. I agree with all the positives, but your statement about cost being negligible is laughable. The solar install at school used 8 batteries at $1700 each. I can buy a lot of lead acid type batteries for $1700. In fact, they are more expensive now with inflation and etc. happening in the economy.

Poor wording from my side, I agree.
I just wanted to express, that avoiding all the hassle with lead acid batteries is well worth it.
For me, not having to worry about it and having this maintenance-free long life expectancy, is worth the extra expenses.
Just another example for the use of LFPs:
Did I mention, that we live in FL and the power is not very reliable?
I have 4 x 100Ah cells mounted under my desk at home together with an AIMS 1000W converter.
That gives me enough power to run 2 iMacs, one notebook, an extra monitor, the internet router and Wi-Fi plus some lights . . . For about 5+ hours.
Oh, and I drilled a hole through the wall and power also my wife’s computer and a light with those batteries.
You can not do this with lead acid. Smell, gases and crouching underneath and checking the water level etc. etc. And a lead acid would require double the size and has much more weight.

 

[TheLooks]

Someone with a definable need is not the same as your average camper.

 

[Rich W.]

I have ample access to good used Li-ion cells from various electric cars (mainly Nissan, but also others as experimentation continues) and could build a very nice 20+kwh battery for my coach, run an 8kw 48v Victron inverter and power both ACs, etc, etc, etc. I did it before with around 10 kwh and a 24v 3kw Victron inverter, and solar of course, so it can be done, at a fairly reasonable cost.

But somewhere along the line for a variety of reasons (not the least of which is the degree of lawlessness our society is experiencing) I decided boondocking no longer suits my RVing style, and all the big lithium/big inverter stuff was becoming nothing more than just an expensive hobby - more to prove it could be done than out of any actual need (a very relative concept to be sure).

So my next house battery replacement will be six rather large AGMs which will of course never run an AC (or not for very long anyway) but will run everything else for a little longer than what I would normally anticipate as needed. A little margin is always nice. These days that will be good enough and AGM batteries being completely sealed, truly maintenance free, and non-venting, will also suit my maintenance schedule rather well.

Six of these: GPL-6CT AGM Battery - Lifeline Batteries will probably do the job very nicely and I have more than enough clearance for their 13” height. If I ditch my 32 gal. propane tank (which I also do not need) I’ll have space for even more batteries and still have room for more junk to haul around with me. The only real benefit I see from lithiums at this point is the weight/space savings, and I don’t need either.

As for LiFePO4 batteries, they would fit in the same space as my current batteries and would provide almost as much benefit as Li-ion, and they have their advantages as well (allowable discharge, life in charge cycles, 12 volt packages (well 14.4v) readily avail, etc), but I don’t have access to any at what I consider a reasonable price, and they don’t seem to provide any real space savings, and as I said, I don’t really need the weight savings. So….next time, AGMs.

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