Diesel particulate filter

[Georgecat]

Winnebago fuse ford diesel. My warning g light came on then message about the filter needing cleaning. Brought it to repair facility. Said filter was 120/200 full. They did manual regeneration for $ 750. Told me to use same brand def and ultra low sulfur diesel—which I believe by 2010 law is the only diesel being sold. Supposedly total replacement of filter wound be $5000.

Am I “lucky” to have avoided full replacement—25000 miles on rv—or was this a lesson in naiveness??

 

[Rich W.]

Well you were lucky not to have to replace your DPF, but they soaked you for a forced regen that only takes an hour ($750/hour….?), and you could have done yourself. And I don’t know what 120/200 is supposed to mean, but the sensors read % full, so if that was the case you were at 60% which is no big deal. It can safely go over 120%. If you drove it the way it wanted to be driven, it would have performed an active regen and cleared this condition on its own. Read up on passive, active, and forced (parked) regens and you’ll have a much better understanding of the system.

Also what year and how many miles? You probably have an emissions warranty that covers 5 - 8 years (8 for Ford IIRC) and 100,000 miles. So if you are under that it should have been covered and the shop should have handled it all under warranty. Since they didn't you probably have recourse.

Also just to disabuse you of some false info, DEF has NOTHING to do with your DPF. And all DEF is pretty much the same other than packaging and false claims about additives keeping your system clean and in top working order. But the main point is DEF is injected in the SCR AFTER the DPF, so it can’t physically affect anything going on upstream in the aftertreatment system.

 

[Georgecat]

Thank you so much. I will look into the warranty issue and I don’t know why guy said use same brand def. I am on the road from Florida to New Hampshire staying a few days in Charleston South Carolina with relatives. Read and saw that it may have regenerated itself but I didn’t want to take that chance and end up on the side of 95. This way I know I’m “good to go” albeit $759 lighter. As I said I’ll call ford when I’m home and so the warranty research/battle begins. I was t confident enough that it would regenerate itself while on the road. I did see the messages that it was cleaning. . It’s 2017 with only 25000. I had Mercedes’ view with 35000 and never ran into this issue good news is I didn’t need new filter—and being out of town put some pressure on believing the guy

 

[Rich W.]

Thank you so much. I will look into the warranty issue and I don’t know why guy said use same brand def. I am on the road from Florida to New Hampshire staying a few days in Charleston South Carolina with relatives. Read and saw that it may have regenerated itself but I didn’t want to take that chance and end up on the side of 95. This way I know I’m “good to go” albeit $759 lighter. As I said I’ll call ford when I’m home and so the warranty research/battle begins. I was t confident enough that it would regenerate itself while on the road. I did see the messages that it was cleaning. . It’s 2017 with only 25000. I had Mercedes’ view with 35000 and never ran into this issue good news is I didn’t need new filter—and being out of town put some pressure on believing the guy

Basically if you end up driving too much at lower speeds (stop and go, back roads, city streets etc) it can‘t clean out with passive regens (not really regens but just normal driving temps) and it can’t do a active regen because you aren't building up enough exhaust temp.

So if it happens again (and it probably will) just stay on the highway, drop a gear so the engine is working harder, and give it an hour or so and it will probably clear itself. Ford has a pretty robust system, better than Freightliner, and much better than Spartan or anyone else using Shaw DEF headers. But I digress…

Once you do a little research you’ll find you can put it in to active regen pretty easily. And while Im not familiar with your specific chassis, I would guess there is an operator actuated forced regen inducement method available.

If not there are several good aftermarket code readers that include forced regen functions. They cost far less than you paid this shop, they allow you to do forced regens at your convenience, and provide you a lot peace of mind since they allow you to take charge of the system.

 

[Rich W.]

When I was new to all this and completely uninformed, Velocity Truck Centers (N. Las Vegas) really helped me out, got everything covered under warranty, and did a forced regen as a precaution, even though my issue was DEF Header related.

But I knew nothing about any of this ( I have a trouble free 2017 F250) and they could have taken advantage of that. They didnt, cudos to them. But I learned very quickly that unless I got on top of this system it could cost me a lot of $$ unnecessarily, and more importantly, leave me stranded.

So it became my new unwanted hobby, and now there isnt really anything it can do to cause me significant problems. But for many shops, these systems just provide job security and a chance to charge 4 - 5 times what the problem should cost to fix, and convince the customer they did them a favor in the process.

 

["EZ"]

As someone who has sold diesel commercial trucks for 30 years I can tell you that Rich W. is on point with all his advice.

 

[Georgecat]

As someone who has sold diesel commercial trucks for 30 years I can tell you that Rich W. is on point with all his advice.

Are these filters “new”? I had 2013 diesel Mercedes’. Never had CD an issue. Are they a “ford thing”. I appreciate both your responses. Thank you!!

 

["EZ"]

Are these filters “new”? I had 2013 diesel Mercedes’. Never had CD an issue. Are they a “ford thing”. I appreciate both your responses. Thank you!!

Not a Ford thing. ALL diesel engines started having to meet new emissions standards starting in 2003 I believe. The next wave of new emission standards was in 2007. The emissions for 2003 raised the price of the International and Ford trucks I was selling by $5000 and there were some companies that were having to use "credits" because their engines didn't really pass the new standards. By the time 2007 arrived the new emissions standards were so hard to meet that Catapillar threw in the towel and quit building on-highway engines. They were now off-highway only. The next wave of emissions was in 2010. By then International was the worlds largest diesel engine builder and they almost went bankrupt because they couldn't meet emissions and didn't have enough credits to cover them. 2010 was the year engine builders went to the DEF fluid. Any engine manufacturer that was trying to use a different technology failed to meet emissions and had wasted billions of dollars of research money. The DEF solution worked but was so rushed and so expensive that it never has been quite right. Lots of engines nowadays have "DEF Head" issues that leave them stranded or in limp-home mode with no one wanting to take responsibility for repairs. It's been a mess since it started and it's been 20 years now and it still isn't right. This is what happens when a government puts impossible to meet demands on something they know nothing about. Everybody tried to tell them they needed more time but the government wouldn't listen.