DPF failure on 2019 Ventana

[redbaron]

Met a guy that has a 2019 Ventana. He has owned it since new, but rarely makes trips over 100miles. Lots of short weekend trips with extended periods of sitting.

With 14k miles on an extended trip this summer he had a full derate just outside of Helena MT.

After a week of trouble shooting they decided to drop the SCR/DPF system.

Opening up the 2 halves this is what was found.

This is a result of never driving the coach long enough to complete a regen.

For some reason the sensors are saying the DPF is clear yet it is fully clogged. A bunch of codes that indicate pressure variance etc are being thrown, but none of them indicate a full derate.

This is where things get interesting. After a bit of research and a few phone calls, he decided to chisel the DPF to remove the entire contents. It is now just a shell.

He has connected it back in place and disconnected all sensors. A tech came out with a laptop running insite and spent 30 minutes recoding and now the engine thinks it doesn’t have DEF,DPF, or sCR.

I left after they started it but before they took a test drive. The startup sound is amazing for a sports car guy, with the turbo whine clearly audible.

He is due to arrive at the campground I am near later this week so I will have more details and hopefully some audio.

First delete I have witnessed on a modern RV.

 

[Neemer]

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

[jaydee325]

Whenever you delete a diesel, just make sure you are aware of and accept the risks of doing so. Legally you cannot sell a deleted vehicle. If you do and don't disclose, you will be liable for restoring the vehicle to EPA regs applicable and fines.

Saw a post on this on another forum where someone unknowingly bought a deleted motorhome and when they took it in for service, the service facility denied service since it was a deleted motorhome. If they would have worked on it, then they could have been liable for fines. The owner finally had to get a lawyer to get the selling dealer to fix the motorhome.

 

[Rich W.]

I recently read an anrticle about DFP meltdown due to insufficient regens. That DPF isn’t even salvageable and I imagine they aren’t cheap. One of the reasons I do elective forced regens occasionally.

 

[Neemer]

I saw this sign in my local Freightliner shop last week. Interesting.

 

[redbaron]

Whenever you delete a diesel, just make sure you are aware of and accept the risks of doing so. Legally you cannot sell a deleted vehicle. If you do and don't disclose, you will be liable for restoring the vehicle to EPA regs applicable and fines.

Saw a post on this on another forum where someone unknowingly bought a deleted motorhome and when they took it in for service, the service facility denied service since it was a deleted motorhome. If they would have worked on it, then they could have been liable for fines. The owner finally had to get a lawyer to get the selling dealer to fix the motorhome.

Yes, this is a huge risk, especially with a newer coach. AFAIK, there are no term limits on when they can come back to you. I would recommend that anyone doing a delete, save all the parts and install a bad donor component. That will allow you to put it back before selling it.

 

[redbaron]

I recently read an anrticle about DFP meltdown due to insufficient regens. That DPF isn’t even salvageable and I imagine they aren’t cheap. One of the reasons I do elective forced regens occasionally.

What I learned this week is that Cummins looks at the last 10 Regen / Regen Attempts before it decides to throw a code. Forcing a regen while parked is excellent if you don't have proof that you have had a good auto-regen.

Diesel Laptops should have the regen data, I just need to dig into it now to find where it is.

 

[Rich W.]

These rigs really should have a switch on the dash for regens like trucks.

 

[flyboy013]

For those that are interested in trying to do a manual regen, according to the J1939 spec it appears that an regen is initiated by sending a message on the J1939 bus with a PGN of 33792, with the second two bits of the first byte set to 01b. I'm pretty sure the BlueFire device can send commands onto the J1939 bus (I haven't used it in a few years). If anyone is interested in trying, I'll be happy to work with them to come up with the exact commands to send. If this works (I'm fairly confident it will), then a regen gadget can be developed for as little as $20 (similar to the DEF Simulator).

 

[redbaron]

I now have more of this story that I can share.

Earlier I mentioned the owner did a lot of short trips. I didn't know how bad it was, but after discussions with him, it was really bad.

Year 1 (2018-2019)- 12k miles put on it. Driving from Florida to Texas, To Illinois, Montana, Texas. -- Good driving in 3 months.
Annual PM done Year 1
Year 2 - 5 trips to local campground, 17 miles from home., 1 Trip to Missouri 788 miles RT
Year 3 - 3 trips to local campground, 17 miles from home
Year 4 - 8 trips to local campground 17 miles from home.
Year 5 - 3 trips to local campground 17 miles from home, 1 trip to further campground 110 miles from home.
Year 6 - 1 Trip from Texas to Montana -- Broke down

Between Year 5 & Year 6 was also the first maintenance done on the coach since Year 1. The Year 1 annual PM did not include the air filter. Year 6 a new air filter was purchased from amazon from a China reseller with many good reviews (we know that story).

During the events that transpired in post 1, it was noted that the air meter was showing clogged. The assumption was they forgot to reset it when it was changed.

After the DPF/SCR was hollowed out they started testing the engine and getting lots of air flow issues. Upon further investigation they noticed the rubber gasket going into turbo was shrinking down under demand. That cheap China made air filter with lots of good reviews was basically a clog.

Once a good filter was installed, the coach appears to be running well. It made a journey of 500 miles to Wyoming area where it is going to spend the next 10 days before heading back to Texas.

Talking with the owner, he said that the engine sounds very strong (I read this as loud) and that there is more power.

The sensors that where part of the DPF/SCR/DEF systems where left unplugged and zip tied to the frame. In the Insight program it has been changed to eliminate the modules. Both the transmission and engine are now in a learning state as the new profile is run.

There are several things that I can learn from this. The most important one is that changing air filters and driving your coach should not be neglected. Also, the driving of the coach should include a duration and speed long enough for a natural regen to occur.

I would like a way to easily view the last 10 regen cycles. My diesel laptops handheld does this, so I will need to hook it up and verify. After 10 failures, the coach will derate, so getting some advanced notice that you have had 5 sequential failures seems like good data to have.