Dual Victron Quattro or Multiplus 3KVA inverter/chargers

[newmarokie]

I just keep digging around and studying building my coach up to the point I can run down the road with AC on and the generator off. I am reaching out here to Neal, Joe Hogan, and anyone else intimate with that type of setup. I keep going over the spec sheets for the Quattro and Multiplus 3KVA units. Two of them together will produce 4800 watts at 77F. If it gets hotter they produce less. 4800 watts is definitely enough to run the ACs. I guess what I am asking is, what is the compromise for using these units as compared to going to the 5 KVA units that together will produce 8000 watts. That is equal to what my genny puts out. I am already in the process of buying 48V 100Ah batteries. I plan to keep two SOK 206Ah batteries to power the 12V stuff.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

So! It won't hurt anything but the pocket book!

Things not yet discussed!
On sunny days Neal's setup is pumping solar power directly to the inverters. The batteries simply make up the deficit.

Your generator has a run-up delay, and the rating is maximum at sea level. And Should be run at 80% of rating.

The inverter has a maximum starting current 2.5 times the rated capacity.

You do the math!!!

 

[newmarokie]

OK Kevin 80% of the generators output is 6720 watts if you go off of breaker size. If you go off of rated output it is 6400 watts. That is still considerably more than the 4800 watts that the Victrons are rated for. Irregardless of how much juice the panels put into the batteries, 4800 is the continuous output of the inverters, as I understand it. The compromise I would like to discover, is what can/can't you do when running on straight batteries.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Yes and 9600 peak on the inverters vs. 6720 for the generator.

I don't want to go into system sizing! If I did you wouldn't have a clue about how to size things for the load when I was through! Suffice to say, you will not be disappointed!

Your Major disappointment will be in your storage size.

I like your choice for a 48 volt system, but wonder why only 100AH?

 

[newmarokie]

It is batteries, not battery. I will have four. As I have been contemplating this project, everything has been based on continuous current, not short term surge capability. It should be more trouble free when you keep it "between the lines"

 

[Kevin D Pem]

4 oh! That's more like it. Guess I missed that com!

What a flame that could be

 

[Neal]

I just keep digging around and studying building my coach up to the point I can run down the road with AC on and the generator off. I am reaching out here to Neal, Joe Hogan, and anyone else intimate with that type of setup. I keep going over the spec sheets for the Quattro and Multiplus 3KVA units. Two of them together will produce 4800 watts at 77F. If it gets hotter they produce less. 4800 watts is definitely enough to run the ACs. I guess what I am asking is, what is the compromise for using these units as compared to going to the 5 KVA units that together will produce 8000 watts. That is equal to what my genny puts out. I am already in the process of buying 48V 100Ah batteries. I plan to keep two SOK 206Ah batteries to power the 12V stuff.

My suggestion is to reach out and/or make a trip to Solar Energy Systems in Nappanee. They did mine as you know and yes, I can do as you describe, use both AC's while driving without GEN as my coach is always on 50A. It is not just inverters and batteries, you need to have wiring to support this as the factory wiring to run AC's off of battery is insufficient, according to SES. It's not Newmar's design. So as part of my LiFePO4 upgrade with dual Victron's all as reported the wiring was also changed out to support this objective of running AC's. While expensive, it's worth it to have it done properly and safely by people that know how to all of this properly AND support it. I've needed to reach out to SES a few times now with questions, they've been amazing. They will also do my firmware updates as I just updated the inverters but I did the update and then had them verify and they did suggest a change in my settings. The victron stack is absolutely amazing and I highly recommend 100% victron if you can. Brian from SES also put me on the beta view of some VRM stuff for the Cerbo GX which is really cool, they completely overhauled the user-interface.

 

[newmarokie]

Neal,
If you are parked, do you see any limitations. Going down the road with AC or I guess possibly heat pumps, I see the 3K units working fine. What about when the sides are out and you are camping? Do you need to be mindful of floor heat, the washer and dryer, AC I & II? My Frig and microwave are on the sub panel so my inverter is my other energy hog.

 

[Neal]

Inverters can be overloaded, you can't run loads like you're plugged in to shore power. You still need to be cognizant of limitations. Loads are divided across inverters and it all depends on various factors including your battery bank capacity. I certainly wouldn't run OASIS electric elements if I can use burner, you still need to be smart about it and the coach will still manage via load sheds too.

 

[osuallen]

With dual multi-plus, you don't have 6000 W of power. You have 2 separate legs of 3000 W. It makes a difference. You cannot continuously run 2 AC/HP's on a single MP3K in all conditions. Not a concern in your case as you only have 2. There are several ways to configure, so your research/discussions will have to clearly define what your wants/needs are in order to get what you are wanting. I would echo Neal and recommend you start a discussion with SES after you figure out what you want your system to be able to accomplish.

 

[newmarokie]

OSU, I understand the balancing process. I understand you have two 2400 watt legs of 120v. I know my panel is pretty well balanced. One Ac on either side of the panel. Both units pull about 1300 watts each when they are working. I think most 40' Dutch Stars and Ventanas are equipped about like my 4018 is. Again I reached out to Neal and Joe Hogan and anyone else with the similar setup about how they do things differently when they are boondocking on straight battery/solar power. We all have 50 amp service (12000 watts x 80%= 9600 watts) an 8 or 10K generator for 6400 or 8000 watts. The Multiplus and the Quattro both are rated at 2400 watts continuous. It just looks like there will be some give and take operating on the inverters. Neal explained it for me pretty well.

 

[RTRanger]

Does anyone know for sure if it is true that a lithium battery installation can void your insurance policy? They love to dump their responsibility so I kinda’ believe it might be true…

(I use to have a class a with 400ah lithium system and I put the stock lead acid system back in it when I sold the rv.)

 

[Neal]

I don't know the answer but this is one reason I chose a company to do the install vs. self. If you have a fire from something you change/install I think you may have a problem. If a company such as SES does the work, it may be different.

 

[MemoriesByTheMile]

Going from the 3k to 5k, these would be my considerations:
- Cost difference
- Space difference
- Other changes needed (upscale wiring)
- Increased wattage draw when idle

Quattro vs Multiplus
- Would I need other items to keep safety, anti islanding relay, etc
- would I need the extra input of the Quattro if the coach already had an auto transfer switch for gen/shore power
- I don’t recall which, but I believe one of them had a more flexible ability to allow multiple sources simultaneously (solar and battery and shore/gen)