Human waste bill?

[Kevin D Pem]

In the 70's they closed the "nut houses" to save money. The nuts were in the house and senate.

 

[Joe Dutchstar]

Basic enforcement of existing laws should solve this issue. Dumping waste is not hard to find. Also, as others have stated, enforcement and provide a dump station that is local and available is a good solution. There are also existing tools to find local dump sites. This is all about changing behavior of the people who willingly break the law. Do not tax everyone else.

 

[MapNerd]

A couple of honey wagons still makes the most immediate sense to me to solve the most pressing sanitation need. A water truck could also pump fresh water into these homeless units.

I think if the city wanted to, they could address the immediate issue. Most people (homeless or not), given the resources and opportunity will do the right thing (like not dumping sewage in the street) in my experience. It’s when they are faced with a problem (such as a full black tank) they don’t have the resources or means to resolve on their own (like access to a dump station, tote tank or honey wagon) and there is no support to assist them with the problem that things tend to go down the drain - pun intended.

Again, the costs for these services could be charged to the registered owner of the unit by proxy of a citation or any other number of methods. If the unit is not registered, it should be towed away and impounded and eventually seized and sold or destroyed if not claimed within a reasonable amount of time. Cities already have infrastructure and services in place for handling that.

If the registered owner doesn’t want to pay those costs, they should move their unit onto some private land and out of the public area.

It would cost the city maybe a million for a few water trucks and honey wagons.

All I am saying is that the symptom (raw sewage in the streets) of the bigger problem (rampant homelessness and inadequate availability of mental health services) is treatable and while I am rarely a proponent of addressing symptoms rather than problems, this is a public health issue that the city needs to address because actually fixing the problem will take years of dedicated, concerted efforts - something government is typically not very good at sustaining.

All JMHO.

 

[kangarooelaine]

Odd to target something like that at RVs since tent camping/ car campers are even more likely to poop in the woods. Also, I have no idea about the stats but I'd hazard a guess that RVs with 'composting' toilets seem more likely to dump their waste in nature (on assumption it will biodegrade) than RVs with regular pipes. (But maybe just because there are more with pipes than composting toilets the majority is coming from traditional RVs). I also wonder about the actual hazard of black tank waste versus gray tank waste as far as damage to public lands, as I suspect gray tank waste may be just as or perhaps even more harmful to nature, but of course they can both be dangerous.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Odd to target something like that at RVs since tent camping/ car campers are even more likely to poop in the woods. Also, I have no idea about the stats but I'd hazard a guess that RVs with 'composting' toilets seem more likely to dump their waste in nature (on assumption it will biodegrade) than RVs with regular pipes. I also wonder about the actual hazard of black tank waste versus gray tank waste as far as damage to public lands, as I suspect gray tank waste may be just as or perhaps even more harmful to nature.

Not legal to dump black or gray in the woods. Is legal to empty a dish pan however, just not water that has been in the gray tank.
Composting toilets are not really composting toilets but rather dryers. The law says it is not waste until it hits the ground. Takes about 6 mos to compost properly. then should be tested for pathogens. Cat holes are legal in the forest and should be used by tent campers if they must. TP should be bagged and put in the trash.

 

[kangarooelaine]

Not legal to dump black or gray in the woods. Is legal to empty a dish pan however, just not water that has been in the gray tank.

That's kind of my point. It's already illegal. So what would this bill do?
The people pooping in the forest are tent campers. The rest are already doing illegal things so how is another law and permit situation going to make it better?

 

[AbdRahim]

In the 70's they closed the "nut houses" to save money. The nuts were in the house and senate.

Many still are.

 

[MapNerd]

Odd to target something like that at RVs since tent camping/ car campers are even more likely to poop in the woods.

Fecal matter on its own is a nuisance but not much of a health hazard because for the most part it is stationary and you usually don’t find it out in the open where it can cause widespread contamination. That is to say, yes tent homeless go #2 but usually go into the brush, woods, or other areas that provide concealment for them to do their business. As a result, the fecal matter lands in a single place, most often in dirt or grass where other organisms immediately get to work in breaking it down and it remains there by and large. The contamination is localized. This is not the same as raw sewage. It’s human waste and there is a difference.

Sewage = human waste +fluid, typically water and or urine. This is what really takes the smell from 3 to 20 and worse, makes the bacteria, pathogens and other harmful contaminants within transient. RVs typically park on pavement. And so dumping their tanks on pavement means there is a greater public health hazard because now not only are those contaminants highly transient, but they are being absorbed into the ground much more slowly since they are on pavement and there are far fewer organisms available on that surface to begin the decomposition process.

that’s why you target RVs - they are the real health hazard when it comes to this. I don’t know about you, but I’ll take a mountain of poo over a river of sewage any day of the week.

JMHO

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Fecal matter on its own is a nuisance but not much of a health hazard because for the most part it is stationary and you usually don’t find it out in the open where it can cause widespread contamination. That is to say, yes tent homeless go #2 but usually go into the brush, woods, or other areas that provide concealment for them to do their business. As a result, the fecal matter lands in a single place, most often in dirt or grass where other organisms immediately get to work in breaking it down and it remains there by and large. The contamination is localized. This is not the same as raw sewage. It’s human waste and there is a difference.

Sewage = human waste +fluid, typically water and or urine. This is what really takes the smell from 3 to 20 and worse, makes the bacteria, pathogens and other harmful contaminants within transient. RVs typically park on pavement. And so dumping their tanks on pavement means there is a greater public health hazard because now not only are those contaminants highly transient, but they are being absorbed into the ground much more slowly since they are on pavement and there are far fewer organisms available on that surface to begin the decomposition process.

that’s why you target RVs - they are the real health hazard when it comes to this. I don’t know about you, but I’ll take a mountain of poo over a river of sewage any day of the week.

JMHO

Wow don't know how to answer that, but to say there are already laws on the books that are not being enforced. anything more than enforcing the laws that already are in place is just a money grab.