In the market for a new Bullet 221RBS

[AM453]

My wife and I are looking to upgrade from our 2016 Forest River 2516g pop-up two a Keystone Bullet 221RBS. We are looking for your expertise/reviews on this specific unit. We will be towing it with our 2020 Parhfinder (6000 lb towing capacity).

Thanks and have a great day,
A

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Welcome to RVF, @AM453; glad to have you here with us.

I have no specific experience with that particular unit (Keystone Bullet 221RBS) but are you aware that the GVWR of trailer is 6,500 pounds (dry weight + carrying capacity)? That's 500# above what the Pathfinder is rated to tow. And, with the Pathfinder's relatively short wheelbase, I would be a bit concerned about overall handling as well as braking capability.

It is best not to push the limits of towing capacity; staying at or below 80% of the rating is prudent. That would mean finding a trailer in the 4,800# GVWR range. You might be able to stretch that to 5,000#, but that would be pushing the limits. The other option, of course, is to upgrade your tow vehicle to one rated at 8,000# tow capacity or more.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

TJ

 

[AM453]

I really appreciate your comments. Question, if the dry weight of the camper is 4657 lbs plus cargo and humans @ 1300 lbs that should keep us just under the 6000lbs tow capacity of our Pathfinder, am I correct?

Safety is a must, so Im just trying to understand the calculation better.

Thanks again,
A

 

[Kevin D Pem]

I really appreciate your comments. Question, if the dry weight of the camper is 4657 lbs plus cargo and humans @ 1300 lbs that should keep us just under the 6000lbs tow capacity of our Pathfinder, am I correct?

Safety is a must, so Im just trying to understand the calculation better.

Thanks again,
A

Yes but!!! It pushes the limit and most limits are 50% duty cycle. Going 80% of capacity will give you 100% duty cycle. Forget the handling or other things we have talked about. In one hours time you must let the rig rest 1/2 hour with 50% duty cycle. Not paying attention to this is why trailers and tow vehicle sit along many a road. It is not the fault of the manufacturer of the tow vehicle it is the owners fault for not keeping the load being towed at 80% or below for the long trip to recreate.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

According to Keystone, the cargo carrying weight of that trailer is 1,743#. If that is correct, then you will be 500# overweight. And, as @Kevin D Pem noted, even using your lower 1,300# number will push the limits to the maximum. It is never good to work any mechanical device at 100% of its rated capacity; it leaves no margin for error.

Don't forget, the CCW includes the weight of water, propane, food, beverages, cooking/eating utensils, clothes, "toys" and anything else you put in the trailer. And, the GVWR of the Pathfinder includes the weight of the passengers and anything else you put in it. And, for those who say "we won't be putting that much in the trailer," I'm betting dollars to donuts they will...and, quite possibly more.

Certainly, the choice is yours, but using the numbers provided by Nissan and Keystone, the combination you propose will exceed the manufacturers' weight ratings. I'm not trying to pour cold water on your desire to upgrade your RV situation; just trying to help you understand how the weight ratings will affect your proposed combination.

TJ

 

[AM453]

Yes but!!! It pushes the limit and most limits are 50% duty cycle. Going 80% of capacity will give you 100% duty cycle. Forget the handling or other things we have talked about. In one hours time you must let the rig rest 1/2 hour with 50% duty cycle. Not paying attention to this is why trailers and tow vehicle sit along many a road. It is not the fault of the manufacturer of the tow vehicle it is the owners fault for not keeping the load being towed at 80% or below for the long trip to recreate.

Thank you. I think I understand what “duty cycle” is but can you explain it to me in a more simplistic way?

 

[AM453]

According to Keystone, the cargo carrying weight of that trailer is 1,743#. If that is correct, then you will be 500# overweight. And, as @Kevin D Pem noted, even using your lower 1,300# number will push the limits to the maximum. It is never good to work any mechanical device at 100% of its rated capacity; it leaves no margin for error.

Don't forget, the CCW includes the weight of water, propane, food, beverages, cooking/eating utensils, clothes, "toys" and anything else you put in the trailer. And, the GVWR of the Pathfinder includes the weight of the passengers and anything else you put in it. And, for those who say "we won't be putting that much in the trailer," I'm betting dollars to donuts they will...and, quite possibly more.

Certainly, the choice is yours, but using the numbers provided by Nissan and Keystone, the combination you propose will exceed the manufacturers'weight ratings. I'm not trying to pour cold water on your desire to upgrade your RV situation; just trying to help you understand how the weight ratings will affect your proposed combination.

TJ

TJ, thank you! Sometimes it’s hard to tell the wife I told you so (or maybe it’s the other way around) lol.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Thank you. I think I understand what “duty cycle” is but can you explain it to me in a more simplistic way?

Ok, First and foremost the brakes on your tow vehicle can handle the max rating at a reasonable stopping distance with assistance of trailer brakes.
However the amount of braking on grade hills is increased due to less engine braking ability. Although disk brakes don't fade the way of drum brakes they still fade. When the brakes fade even if slight a break is in order for safety. The manufacturer tells you the max tow package so you can compare to others on the market.

Transmissions are a weak link. Heat will kill a transmission faster than any other one thing. To keep that in mind you can keep an eye on it and stop along side the road while it cools, or run under capacity. It is well accepted in the engineering field that 100% duty cycle is at 80% capacity of the vehicle.

Cooling systems are the biggest tail tell signs that you are exceeding capacity of your vehicle is the radiator over flowing.

The best example of running at capacity and having short life and failure rates that are noticeable are the short life of a race car. Large amounts of cash are spent to make the car run at max capacity. But the car will fail faster than anyone in the real world would put up with. They could design everything for the new rating but the added weight would make the car non competitive.

An example of 80% rating built into a car would be the speed limit of 80 mph, The car will do 100 mph with the fam in the car. It will have problems if you stay at that speed. It was designed for 80 mph.

I know that is long winded but other than use the 80% capacity rule to avoid problems is the shortest answer and the simple one.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

TJ, thank you! Sometimes it’s hard to tell the wife I told you so (or maybe it’s the other way around) lol.

I can appreciate your dilemma; our ladies don't always want to be constrained by engineering considerations. "Safety" does usually appeal to them, however, and moving forward on that front might be the better option. Rather than "I told you so," a better approach might me "Here's what I have learned about towing safety." Good luck.

TJ

 

[IdahoDen]

Welcome to RVF, @AM453; glad to have you here with us.

I have no specific experience with that particular unit (Keystone Bullet 221RBS) but are you aware that the GVWR of trailer is 6,500 pounds (dry weight + carrying capacity)? That's 500# above what the Pathfinder is rated to tow. And, with the Pathfinder's relatively short wheelbase, I would be a bit concerned about overall handling as well as braking capability.

It is best not to push the limits of towing capacity; staying at or below 80% of the rating is prudent. That would mean finding a trailer in the 4,800# GVWR range. You might be able to stretch that to 5,000#, but that would be pushing the limits. The other option, of course, is to upgrade your tow vehicle to one rated at 8,000# tow capacity or more.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

TJ

Not only will you be over the towing capacity of the Pathfinder, but your weight ratio of the trailer to the towing vehicle is way too high. If you’ve never experienced being pushed down a steep grade, you will never even think about towing that with a Pathfinder.