Inverter vs solar generator

[Acga1]

Hello..my wife and I just purchased a 2021 ForestRiver Heritage Glen 310BHI…this is our first travel trailer and are greenhorns at it. Camper will stay year round on our vacation property and used as an off grid setup. I am leaning towards a Titan Solar generator vs a dual fuel invertor generator for a lot of reasons…gas, noise, having to fill it in the middle of the night, etc… Being that our camper is 50A and the Titan is 30A, can I safely use a 50-30 dogbone adapter to power the camper? Anything to be aware of? Propane in this camper I was surprised does handle quiet a bit… I realize that power management will be something we would need to be aware of. That being said I don’t see us ever running everything at the same time, especially the 2 AC’s.

Anyone here use the Titan? How do you like it?
We are leaning towards their invertor kit with 2 batteries and 500watts of solar panels to start.

Thank you for the help.

 

[Rich W.]

Id be curious to see exactly what you are getting and for how much with the Titan kit. I took a brief look at their website and saw what looks like an inexpensive 3kw inverter, no panels, and a 2kwh li-ion battery (equivalent to 170 ah at 12v for comparison) for over $3000.

This would have to be fully charged by the time the sun goes down to get you through the night and have enough power left over in the morning for a pot of coffee and some brief micro-wave time. So the second battery would really be essential for a reliable system and then you are in it for nearly $5000.

Without doing the math, Id say you could probably run one AC for about 3 hours with the components you listed if conditions are perfect. I dont want to discourage you, and I like the fact that they are using li-ion batteries as long as their power management is top quality, and having the inverter, charge controllers, and battery charger in one unit is convenient, but you are paying more for the convenience of the chassis and I would question the quality of the components. And you’d still need a generator to fill the gaps.

I like your goals and I can say from experience that having an AC run off an inverter, batteries, and solar with no other noise is quite satisfying, but this system will likely only frustrate you if that is your goal. Also while I prefer li-ion for efficiency, LiFePO4 technology is much more forgiving and user friendly.

 

[CornerstoneRVservices]

[quoted post removed - spammer]

Did I just have a stroke? What in the world does this have to do with solar powering an RV? Where does Panda Express fall into the realm of inverters and generators? I'm new at this so maybe I missed something, can anyone fill me in on what this means?

 

[Neal]

Did I just have a stroke? What in the world does this have to do with solar powering an RV? Where does Panda Express fall into the realm of inverters and generators? I'm new at this so maybe I missed something, can anyone fill me in on what this means?

It was a spammer. If you see suspect content such as this please click (tap) the REPORT link in the lower left of the post to bring it to staff's attention for handling. I will remove the post from your quote above as that spammer has been removed.

 

[CornerstoneRVservices]

I figured it was something like that. Does this happen often on the forum? Anyone else hungry for some Chinese?

 

[Neal]

I figured it was something like that. Does this happen often on the forum? Anyone else hungry for some Chinese?

Rarely as this system has great spam detection.

 

[Rich W.]

[quoted post removed - spammer]

Did I just have a stroke? What in the world does this have to do with solar powering an RV? Where does Panda Express fall into the realm of inverters and generators? I'm new at this so maybe I missed something, can anyone fill me in on what this means?

I saw that in an email. Obviously also a translation and a clumsy one at that. I get a lot of emails like that but this is the first time Ive seen one in a forum like this.

OK back on topic. If I were doing this I would buy a good quality inverter/charger ($1300), one quality MPPT controller ($300) and invest the balance in a bank of LiFePO4 big enough to meet your needs, or Li-ion if you have the technical know-how.

However I have to admit I like the all-in-one “solar generator” concept. And I really like the stackble li-ion battery option. My only concern is that you have no controll over the selection of the internals and probably little if any control over charge settings.

I looked at the charge parameters for their batteries and they are little more aggressive than what I would use, but still slightly (very slightly) below max. To provide a better safety/longevity strategy, I would set the max on this battery bank to 28.7, not 29.2, but they are making the distinction that the theoretical max is 29.4 (2.1 per cell). They are charging at 2.085 per cell, and I charge mine at 2.05.

My theory (and I’m not an expert) is that it‘s better to invest in more batteries and charge them conservatively for longer life, then buy fewer batteries and try to get more out of them, due to their cost and sensitivity. They either disgree or are trying to boost specs without regard for the longest possible battery life. This also applies to the minimal charge (safety cut-out) level.

Heat, overcharging, and excessive discharge are the enemies of li-ion batteries, so more conservative charging and shut-down settings, and keeping the bank in a temperature controlled environment are critical for protecting them.

 

[Acga1]

I saw that in an email. Obviously also a translation and a clumsy one at that. I get a lot of emails like that but this is the first time Ive seen one in a forum like this.

OK back on topic. If I were doing this I would buy a good quality inverter/charger ($1300), one quality MPPT controller ($300) and invest the balance in a bank of LiFePO4 big enough to meet your needs, or Li-ion if you have the technical know-how.

However I have to admit I like the all-in-one “solar generator” concept. And I really like the stackble li-ion battery option. My only concern is that you have no controll over the selection of the internals and probably little if any control over charge settings.

I looked at the charge parameters for their batteries and they are little more aggressive than what I would use, but still slightly (very slightly) below max. To provide a better safety/longevity strategy, I would set the max on this battery bank to 28.7, not 29.2, but they are making the distinction that the theoretical max is 29.4 (2.1 per cell). They are charging at 2.085 per cell, and I charge mine at 2.05.

My theory (and I’m not an expert) is that it‘s better to invest in more batteries and charge them conservatively for longer life, then buy fewer batteries and try to get more out of them, due to their cost and sensitivity. They either disgree or are trying to boost specs without regard for the longest possible battery life. This also applies to the minimal charge (safety cut-out) level.

Heat, overcharging, and excessive discharge are the enemies of li-ion batteries, so more conservative charging and shut-down settings, and keeping the bank in a temperature controlled environment are critical for protecting them.

Thank you for taking the time to reply and give some thoughts on this. Very helpful. We are 1st time camper owners and this part of it can get a bit overwhelming with all the options and opinions out there. Since our use is off grid and the camper will stay put, this concept is appealing.

 

[SaltyVetAdventures]

If your goal is to run an air conditioner off solar/battery, you are going be spending crap loads of money to get that ability. With two batteries and 500 watts of solar, you will be lucky to get an hour or so of air conditioner time.

Your best bet is a hybrid system. Get a decent solar set up with 400-800 watts worth of panels. Get 200-300 amp hours of lithium batteries. That will run most of what you need no problem. Also, get a 2000 watt inverter generator since they are generally quiet and efficient. Use the generator for hot days that you need air conditioner or cloudy days when you don't have enough sun. You can also use the generator to top off the batteries before bed.

You can get a solar set up that will do everything you want but the price isn't worth it right now unless you have money to burn. A nice hybrid setup is the way to go.

One other thing...if you have more than one AC unit then you will need a bigger generator. And you don't want to know what the cost of a solar set up would be to run two AC units for several hours. And make sure to put micro air soft starts on your air conditioners....google if you want to know why.

Keep us updated on your journey. Good luck.

 

[Acga1]

If your goal is to run an air conditioner off solar/battery, you are going be spending crap loads of money to get that ability. With two batteries and 500 watts of solar, you will be lucky to get an hour or so of air conditioner time.

Your best bet is a hybrid system. Get a decent solar set up with 400-800 watts worth of panels. Get 200-300 amp hours of lithium batteries. That will run most of what you need no problem. Also, get a 2000 watt inverter generator since they are generally quiet and efficient. Use the generator for hot days that you need air conditioner or cloudy days when you don't have enough sun. You can also use the generator to top off the batteries before bed.

You can get a solar set up that will do everything you want but the price isn't worth it right now unless you have money to burn. A nice hybrid setup is the way to go.

One other thing...if you have more than one AC unit then you will need a bigger generator. And you don't want to know what the cost of a solar set up would be to run two AC units for several hours. And make sure to put micro air soft starts on your air conditioners....google if you want to know why.

Keep us updated on your journey. Good luck.

Thank you very much for this information. I’m at a loss on this. I’m trying to figure out the best solution
Our camper is set up for 50 amps. 2 AC’s and wiring for a dryer.
Dryer we will never install.
AC’s I see us really using the main unit and alternating if needed to run the master.

I’m not looking to run the AC for hours on end. This is a weekend/vacation setup for us so having the ability to run it for long periods of time is not to crucial.

Following is what I have in camper:
2 AC’s: 1-15,000btu and 1-13.5btu
Electric fireplace: 12amps or about 1465 watts
Microwave: about 1350watts
Occasional coffee pot use at 1520watts
Misc tv’s +\- 108 watts

We know this will take some learning as we would have to maybe turn an item off to use another. Say the AC is running, we might need to shut it off the run the microwave, etc.

Speaking of batteries: we have 1 for the 12v side of things and want to upgrade those as well. Have no idea which brand/ style is good for that. Camper does have 1 solar panel for the 12V battery which is currently installed.

 

[Acga1]

Thank you very much for this information. I’m at a loss on this. I’m trying to figure out the best solution
Our camper is set up for 50 amps. 2 AC’s and wiring for a dryer.
Dryer we will never install.
AC’s I see us really using the main unit and alternating if needed to run the master.

I’m not looking to run the AC for hours on end. This is a weekend/vacation setup for us so having the ability to run it for long periods of time is not to crucial.

Following is what I have in camper:
2 AC’s: 1-15,000btu and 1-13.5btu
Electric fireplace: 12amps or about 1465 watts
Microwave: about 1350watts
Occasional coffee pot use at 1520watts
Misc tv’s +\- 108 watts

We know this will take some learning as we would have to maybe turn an item off to use another. Say the AC is running, we might need to shut it off the run the microwave, etc.

Speaking of batteries: we have 1 for the 12v side of things and want to upgrade those as well. Have no idea which brand/ style is good for that. Camper does have 1 solar panel for the 12V battery which is currently installed.

Hit the post button to soon:
Attached is the charge controller for that panel.

How does the hybrid system work?

Our ultimate goal is to be as self sufficient as possible and not have to rely on a generator running every time we go…

At first I was planning on just a decent generator. Maybe 2 champion’s with the 50 amp parallel setup. I was going to build an enclosure to help with the noise.

Thank you again for your time in responding. We’re new at this and want to have it set up right so we don’t have to be filling gas or propane every weekend.

 

[Rich W.]

You mentioned that this unit will stay at your vacation property. This gives you a significant advantage if you seperate the RV from your off-grid power solution. A simple ground mount solar set-up in the 5-6kw range will run everything when the sun is shining, and a small battery back-up will get you through the night, as long as you rely on propane for heat. If you find the battery bank isnt sufficient during extended periods cloudy weather you can just add on to it as you go, but you probably wont be using air conditioners on those days.

RV solar is typically more complex, always limited, and usually much more expensive than residential. For 20 years I ran a large battery back-up system with 16 GC2 batteries and two 5.5 kw zantrex inverters so I could run all my 240v appliances including the well pump. I could run the whole house for three days during a power outage without running the generator. I had a 15kw propane generator but it used a lot of fuel and we often had trouble getting deliveries in the winter. This was a large and fairly inexpensive system, but you’d never put it in an RV.

So back to a solar set up, if you are interested I can send you some basic specs, and since you are not going to connect to the grid you can do it with no permits or inspections. Just make sure you have competent help. If you want I can send you approved plans ( in Ca so totally over built) for a 10kw ground mount system and you could just downsize to meet your spec.

Also be advised that solar panel prices are rising very wuickly right now so plan to spend .33+/watt for chinese panels and close to .60 for premium panels such as LG. For your purposes the chinese panels should be technically sufficient.

As for the OEM solar stuff, you will probably either end up removing it, or just leaving it unused in place. Its set up to keep your house battery topped up but thats all it can do. It wont be part of your off-grid power solution. Just think of it as a mobile 30amp (max) battery charger.

 

[Rich W.]

First pic below is an RV mounted system that would run one 15k btu AC all day on a sunny day and around 4 hours after sunset. The inverter was $1400, the charge controllers $300 each, and the battery banks were salvaged from a Nissan Leaf. This RV didn't come with a transfer switch and this picture was taken with the cover off the after market switch for whatever reason. Pictures 2 & 3 are the same basic system with more battery mounted in my Bay Star.

I probably had around $1000 - $1500 in those batteries, but prices have gone up considerably since people “discovered” these batteries have other uses. They also require special handling (monitoring, equalizing, charge and discharge limits, temp control, etc) for safety and longevity because they are just the li-ion modules (2 cells each). For comparison, the big bank pictured (24 modules) is equal to about 3 1/2 Titan battery modules, which would cost around $1400 each.

The system in the first picture was all under the dinette seats in a 30’ Fourwinds class C. Pictured is one battery bank and the hardware. Another identical bank was under the other seat. It also had 1875w of LG panels on the roof.

I’ve designed a system that will run both ACs on my Ventana that includes a Victron 48v 8kw inverter ($1800) and 28 Leaf modules (probably another $2000+) and 5 315w panels (currently installed). Also the Leaf battery modules in the system pictured were 2013 gen 2. They have more than doubled in capacity since then and are now on Gen 4. Im always watching for gen 3 or later now.

I might not ever build this system because it is really just an expensive hobby - not cost effective at all as SaltyVet pointed out. Right now Im just running my 5 panels as a big battery charger for my OE lead acid batteries with two 150/35 victron controllers on the Ventana and of course no hope of running an AC. I have repurposed the old modules in my Polaris Ranger EV.

 

[Acga1]

You mentioned that this unit will stay at your vacation property. This gives you a significant advantage if you seperate the RV from your off-grid power solution. A simple ground mount solar set-up in the 5-6kw range will run everything when the sun is shining, and a small battery back-up will get you through the night, as long as you rely on propane for heat. If you find the battery bank isnt sufficient during extended periods cloudy weather you can just add on to it as you go, but you probably wont be using air conditioners on those days.

RV solar is typically more complex, always limited, and usually much more expensive than residential. For 20 years I ran a large battery back-up system with 16 GC2 batteries and two 5.5 kw zantrex inverters so I could run all my 240v appliances including the well pump. I could run the whole house for three days during a power outage without running the generator. I had a 15kw propane generator but it used a lot of fuel and we often had trouble getting deliveries in the winter. This was a large and fairly inexpensive system, but you’d never put it in an RV.

So back to a solar set up, if you are interested I can send you some basic specs, and since you are not going to connect to the grid you can do it with no permits or inspections. Just make sure you have competent help. If you want I can send you approved plans ( in Ca so totally over built) for a 10kw ground mount system and you could just downsize to meet your spec.

Also be advised that solar panel prices are rising very wuickly right now so plan to spend .33+/watt for chinese panels and close to .60 for premium panels such as LG. For your purposes the chinese panels should be technically sufficient.

As for the OEM solar stuff, you will probably either end up removing it, or just leaving it unused in place. Its set up to keep your house battery topped up but thats all it can do. It wont be part of your off-grid power solution. Just think of it as a mobile 30amp (max) battery charger.

Thank you Rich. If you don’t mind sending me some info I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Rich W.]

Plans sent via PM - let me know if you have any questions.

Once you digest all this you might find that SaltyVet’s hybrid idea is best. If I were doing this it would include a 4kw generator in a well insulated shed for running ACs and charging batteries, along with 4-6 AGM GC2 batteries and a 2kw inverter for overnight and misc daily use, and 2-3 residential panels on the shed to keep the system charged when the sun is shining. And you could always add to it if you found you needed more battery or solar power.

 

[SaltyVetAdventures]

Plans sent via PM - let me know if you have any questions.

Once you digest all this you might find that SaltyVet’s hybrid idea is best. If I were doing this it would include a 4kw generator in a well insulated shed for running ACs and charging batteries, along with 4-6 AGM GC2 batteries and a 2kw inverter for overnight and misc daily use, and 2-3 residential panels on the shed to keep the system charged when the sun is shining. And you could always add to it if you found you needed more battery or solar power.

Rich has some great ideas. But they aren't always cheap ideas. I guess we really need to know what your budget is before any actual advice.

If you do go with a large ground mounted solar array then I would get the panels from Santan Solar. They sell used commercial panels that are about 3-5 years old. When the life span of a solar panel is 20+ years...that is a great deal. You can get used 300 watt panels for $100 or so each. Since they are used, they aren't allowed to be used in grid tie applications but since you are 100% off grid, no problem.

No matter what you do, at least have a small generator as back up. Rich sounds like he has some great solar ideas. Good luck!