MOD Should have done this years ago

[lostinfla]

Finally finished with the Lithium change over and couldn't be happier! I hesitated doing the project, to be honest, because of my ignorance or naivety on the subject of stored energy, but the end result is much better than I could have anticipated. Installed a single 460a Epoch battery that weighs less than two of the eight 6v wet cells I had in the coach, and gained a lot of storage. Yesterday, starting with around 72% charge, I decided to test the system by running the fridge, 2 TVs, Maxair fans, all lighting and intermittent microwave use. After about 6 hours, I still had over 50% charge. Here's a finished pic of the install and one of the old "battery dungeon" that I hated to even go in. I would urge anyone thinking about the change over to not hesitate.

 

[Neal]

Yuppppppp! And the 50% SOC means nothing, your bottom limit (absolute bottom) is 10%. You can comfortably use down to 25% I'd say.

 

[Richpatty]

Awesome! I am so happy you made the move. You will not regret it.

 

[punkinhead]

I did the same change with the same battery in December. We're currently midway through our 3 month winter trip and it's been great. We're plugged in unless moving so AC voltage is from shore power but the battery supplies all 12v power until the rebulk voltage is reached. We're using about 25% SOC per day. We may do some boondocking during a cross-country trip this summer so I'll get to see battery usage with AC loads. I didn't have time to close off the battery compartment before this trip and it's pretty filthy in there. I'll be dealing with that when we get home. Another thing I'll do is check the torque on all bus bar connections since we had some loosen slightly in our previous RV with lithium. I tightened them once a few months after buying it and they never loosened again but I made it part of yearly maintenance to check them.

Before this DP we had a class B with 920ah of lithium and often boondocked. We could get 4-5 days out of them with typical 12v lights, fans, making morning coffee, and cooking dinner in the microwave or induction stove. I went with 460ah in the Newmar because I know we won't be boondocking much plus we have the generator. I'm fact, even 460ah is probably overkill but better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I'm still playing with Magnum settings. Just when I think I understand them I'll get some weirdness. Eventually I'll find a "set it and forget it" setting but I'm not there yet. Our class B came from the factory set up to maintain the batteries at 100% SOC. That actually made sense because we moved and boondocked so often that we always wanted them topped off except for storage. In the class A we don't need them topped off all the time and it's healthier for them not to be.

 

[lostinfla]

We hardly ever boondock anymore, so I'm thinking this should be enough capacity, although it's nice to be able to add another one and have 920a available. Now I'm charging with the CC/CV profile, bringing it up to 100% and letting it drift to around 70%. Is that an advisable range or should I drop the top to around 95%? BTW, I love the bluetooth app.

 

[Neal]

There's no need for a battery "bay" anymore. That battery could have gone under your bed and that entire bay could be used for storage. It also shifts weight aft. The days of these ugly, heavy, toxic battery bays are a thing of the past. If only RV manufacturers would modernize and let go of the past.

 

[punkinhead]

If only RV manufacturers would modernize and let go of the past.

I'm a bit disgusted by what some RV manufacturers are charging for lithium. I recently read a post from a guy wanting to buy a 2025 Newmar and was quoted something obscene like $15K-$20K for factory lithium. That's just preying on consumer ignorance about how much the cost of lithium has come down. There's no excuse for lithium to be an upcharge over lithium from the factory, let alone insanely large upcharge.

It's also disappointing to see so much misinformation on forums. Every time someone brings up lithium someone will post about fire hazards, someone will claim a bunch of expensive components need replaced, and then it will devolve into the minutia of lithium charging in an attempt to make it so much more complicated than it really is.

 

[Jim]

Very nice conversion, Jim!

 

[MarkMaxPayne]

I'm a bit disgusted by what some RV manufacturers are charging for lithium. I recently read a post from a guy wanting to buy a 2025 Newmar and was quoted something obscene like $15K-$20K for factory lithium. That's just preying on consumer ignorance about how much the cost of lithium has come down. There's no excuse for lithium to be an upcharge over lithium from the factory, let alone insanely large upcharge.

I wish Lithionics was still an independent company. They were not cheap when out on their own, but the Winnebago "in the family" markup on top of that is indeed egregious. Yes, they are UL certified to the point where you can smash a battery into a solid object at 60+ mph without it harming any of the cells, but I think if your rig (let alone the batteries) hits an immovable object at 60 mph you've got bigger problems than if your batteries can also survive a similar collision outside of the motorhome.

@lostinfla Nice, clean install and congratulations!!! The built-in BMS will prevent hitting the actual 0% of the batteries as it'll shut it off (what it claims is 0% still has some power in reserve to protect them). Worrying about killing your batteries by running them down too far is indeed a thing of the past as the built-in BMS should protect them. Enjoy the fruits of your labor!

Best,
-Mark

 

[lostinfla]

Thanks to all who helped push me into doing this. Sometimes an old dog needs a little nudge to change his perspective on things. Funny thing (not really) is the last time I replaced the flooded batteries, I paid more to replace them than the new Lithium battery costs. Paying by the pound I guess....

 

[Chargerman]

I’ve been contemplating this for some time also and with the upcoming need to replace my (8) 6 volt batteries I think it’s time to really dig in. Jim, would you mind sharing how you determined what you needed for the swap and associated costs

Thanks!
Steve

 

[punkinhead]

I'll be interested to see how Jim's list compares to mine (2018 Newmar Ventana)

• 460ah Epoch Essentials battery $1400
• LI-BIM--225 $140
• Blue Sea 9003E battery cutoff switch for positive terminal $35
• Bus bars for positive and ground cables. $54. Not strictly necessary but made life a lot easier
• Materials to enclose battery bay. I haven't done this yet and haven't decided what material I'll use.

I didn't need to buy or make up any new cables. I was able to reuse what was already there. I did have to crimp on new terminals when changing the BIM because Newmar used a crazy strong caulk to seal the cables where they entered the compartment where the BIM is located. I tore up the terminals and insulation trying to pull through some extra slack. That meant crimping on new terminals so I suppose you could add in the cost of a hydraulic crimper.

Note that I didn't install a shunt. I'm using Epoch's Bluetooth app to monitor state of charge. If you want to display SOC and use it for the auto gen start you'll need a shunt and some additional Magnum hardware.

 

[lostinfla]

I’ve been contemplating this for some time also and with the upcoming need to replace my (8) 6 volt batteries I think it’s time to really dig in. Jim, would you mind sharing how you determined what you needed for the swap and associated costs

Thanks!
Steve

Well, I'm no expert by any means, but I have learned a lot from members here. If there's something here that isn't true, I hope someone with more knowledge will jump in. I did a ton of research before attempting this, but it's not rocket science, so I think it's well within most peoples abilities. First of all, you'll need to check to see if your inverter will support Lithium charging profiles. I had to replace my inverter, so the new one had that ability. From what I understand, Lithium batteries will supply more useable energy from the fact that you can discharge them to somewhere around 15-20% with no detrimental effects. Flooded units can be ruined if discharged below 50%. Originally, our coach had the same bank as yours with advertised capacity at around 900ah. We seldom boon dock, so I figured a single 460ah Lithium would do the trick. I picked Epoch as I read quite a few reviews that were stellar. Price of the battery was 1299 shipped. (plus the tray it sits in to secure for 50 bucks) I am using their Essential series which is heated and has bluetooth for easy monitoring on your phone. They also make an Elite series for about 500.00 more that has Victron coms and a few more features.
After removing the old batteries (which I sold on Marketplace) and tray, I cleaned the bay out and lined the bay with 3/4" plywood, (painted both sides after test fitting). Wood and assorted attachment pieces was around 150.00. I installed a Battery Switch and Buss Bars to make wiring cleaner. I used the original jumpers from the 6v units to connect the feeds. I then configured the charger (inverter) for charging parameters with the help of @newmarokie and others here. The only other thing needed is to replace the BIM with a LiBim which is a simple operation. After testing the system with just the one battery, I believe it will be more than enough for our needs, although another battery could be added in parallel for 920ah. Just the storage gained by doing this is tremendous! Not to mention the weight savings.

 

[Roadglide117]

Finally finished with the Lithium change over and couldn't be happier! I hesitated doing the project, to be honest, because of my ignorance or naivety on the subject of stored energy, but the end result is much better than I could have anticipated. Installed a single 460a Epoch battery that weighs less than two of the eight 6v wet cells I had in the coach, and gained a lot of storage. Yesterday, starting with around 72% charge, I decided to test the system by running the fridge, 2 TVs, Maxair fans, all lighting and intermittent microwave use. After about 6 hours, I still had over 50% charge. Here's a finished pic of the install and one of the old "battery dungeon" that I hated to even go in. I would urge anyone thinking about the change over to not hesitate.View attachment 27218View attachment 27219

 

[Roadglide117]

looks great! Thought of lithium when i put new AGM batteries in 2 yrs ago. Unsure what I needed for a battery. Plus I have 1080 watts solar. But soon I will do it.

 

[Chargerman]

Thanks guys. When I get back north to the coach I’ll have to check my inverter. It’s a Magnum and I think it has Li capacities but will need to confirm. I store my coach for the winter and will likely remove the battery and leave it in the house during that time as I don’t like to leave the coach plugged when we are gone for the winter