TV max tow > TT GVWR - Rule or Guideline?

["EZ"]

I would not get your legal advice from a forum. I sat down with the accident attorney for an hour and he already knew about GVWR and used the example of a 3/4 ton truck pulling a 5er and how many baby boomers. are exceeding the manufacture specs and how that is used on a civil lawsuit. Here is a video I wish everyone would watch and I think at least one trip to the scales should be required. You would be surprised how far off those manufactured RV specs are off.

My Class

Education site for RV Safety and Education Foundation

rvacademy.com

One thing to keep in mind when talking to the "experts" at the RV dealership..............they want to sell you the biggest most expensive RV they can. So when the customer asks "can I tow this with the 2500 truck I have now or will I have to buy a 3500?" The answer will ALWAYS be YES! The 2500 will do just fine. They don't want you buying a less expensive RV because you have to budget for a larger truck as well. It's in their best interest to tell you your 2500 is fine. This is why we have so many people out here on the road pulling these HUGE 5th wheel campers and toy haulers with their 3/4 ton trucks rather than the 1 ton truck they really need. The average customer doesn't know diddly squat about tow weights or CVWR or GCWR or any of that "technical" stuff so they just ask the RV salesman and go with his answer.

 

["EZ"]

That was an EXCELLENT video. Every RV buyer should watch it.

 

[Al_Bear]

EZ, it's scary to think that people are just taking the word of the RV salesman about this.

One thing that surprised me in the video was the finding that 51% of TT owners exceed the trailer's GVWR. In view of that, I would say that prospective buyers should start with estimating how much CARGO/STUFF they want to take along. The TT's cargo carrying capacity is on a sticker too. If you don't respect that, you can't make up for it with a bigger truck.

I wonder what people are bringing that weighs so much. My Komfort has 2800 pounds of capacity (7400 GVWR minus 4600 dry) and it's not a toy hauler. What could I possibly bring to go over that? 2800 pounds is 80 cases of wine! Maybe some TT's don't have enough cargo capacity to start with. Fresh water might be 400 lbs. or more. Then you might have four bicycles, a heavy screen-house or two, two double kayaks on the back, waders for fishing, firewood (bad idea: burn where you buy!), a propane fire-pit and extra propane tank, outdoor tables and chairs, canned foods, beverages, outdoor stove and barbecue... what else?

We pack really light. No bikes, at least not right now--maybe when the grandkids are old enough to come along that might change. No fresh water (usually), no soda, not much beer, lots of food but not much canned goods. Lightweight clothing, nylon and poly, down comforter--we're ex-backpackers. Lightweight outdoor tables and chairs go in the TV, screen house too. Lynx Levellers instead of chunks of wood. But what if you need more stuff and the RV salesman is not selling you a TT that will carry it? He would rather dazzle you with those nifty slide-outs.

Thanks for you input, everyone.

 

["EZ"]

EZ, it's scary to think that people are just taking the word of the RV salesman about this.

One thing that surprised me in the video was the finding that 51% of TT owners exceed the trailer's GVWR. In view of that, I would say that prospective buyers should start with estimating how much CARGO/STUFF they want to take along. The TT's cargo carrying capacity is on a sticker too. If you don't respect that, you can't make up for it with a bigger truck.

I wonder what people are bringing that weighs so much. My Komfort has 2800 pounds of capacity (7400 GVWR minus 4600 dry) and it's not a toy hauler. What could I possibly bring to go over that? 2800 pounds is 80 cases of wine! Maybe some TT's don't have enough cargo capacity to start with. Fresh water might be 400 lbs. or more. Then you might have four bicycles, a heavy screen-house or two, two double kayaks on the back, waders for fishing, firewood (bad idea: burn where you buy!), a propane fire-pit and extra propane tank, outdoor tables and chairs, canned foods, beverages, outdoor stove and barbecue... what else?

We pack really light. No bikes, at least not right now--maybe when the grandkids are old enough to come along that might change. No fresh water (usually), no soda, not much beer, lots of food but not much canned goods. Lightweight clothing, nylon and poly, down comforter--we're ex-backpackers. Lightweight outdoor tables and chairs go in the TV, screen house too. Lynx Levellers instead of chunks of wood. But what if you need more stuff and the RV salesman is not selling you a TT that will carry it? He would rather dazzle you with those nifty slide-outs.

Thanks for you input, everyone.

I'm not sure how much all the stuff I have in the basement of my 40' diesel pusher but it's a bunch. I've got EVERYTHING I might need, I think. They give you a LOT of room under these coaches so it's EZ to overload one I think. I need to weigh mine just to get an idea of where I'm at weight wise.

 

[Al_Bear]

I just noticed an error in my calculation of percent of capacity (GCWR) for my new TT. I counted tongue weight twice: in the weight for the TV and again in the weight for the TT. That correction brings the total down down to 9700. Divided by 12,000 gives 81% rather than 86%. Given that we're 55-60 mph'ers when towing, I think we'll be fine. (In fact, 55 is the speed limit when towing in California.)

The correct way to do the calculations is to:
1. First compare actual to GVWR for the TV INCLUDING tongue weight.
2. Then compare actual to GVWR for the TT also including tongue weight, that is not subtracting it, because it's a bad idea to think tongue weight gives you more capacity in that way.
3. Then add the two actual weights together and compare the total to GCWR, but making sure that your actual weight for the TV DOES NOT INCLUDE tongue weight at that point in the calculation. Or, if you prefer, leave tongue weight in the actual for the TV but subtract it from the actual for the TT.

 

[Gizmo]

Pencil weighing is fine but it can really far off. A 10,000 trailer could have a 10% tongue or 1000 pounds or like my Airstream, that same 10,000 pounds RV could have a 1700 pound tongue weight. That difference of needing a 1/2 ton with 2 1/2 hitch to need at least a 3/4 ton and need a minimum of 3" hitch which by the way hard to find. I just weighted my Class A yesterday and to my surprise, my UVW is 30,279 and I weighed in at 33,240 or 2,961 pounds of stuff in RV, and if guess I would have said less than 2,000 pounds. The GVWR is 37,500 so not a problem yet but it seems to gain every year.

 

[Al_Bear]

I use a tongue weight scales from Sherline. That way you can observe the effect of your loading choices, such as whether to bring fresh water. A fresh water tank in front of the axles will increase tongue weight when loaded, but decrease it if it's behind. That's obvious, but only a tongue weight scale will show you by how much.

 

[pigpigsparadise]

One thing to keep in mind when talking to the "experts" at the RV dealership..............they want to sell you the biggest most expensive RV they can. So when the customer asks "can I tow this with the 2500 truck I have now or will I have to buy a 3500?" The answer will ALWAYS be YES! The 2500 will do just fine. They don't want you buying a less expensive RV because you have to budget for a larger truck as well. It's in their best interest to tell you your 2500 is fine. This is why we have so many people out here on the road pulling these HUGE 5th wheel campers and toy haulers with their 3/4 ton trucks rather than the 1 ton truck they really need. The average customer doesn't know diddly squat about tow weights or CVWR or GCWR or any of that "technical" stuff so they just ask the RV salesman and go with his answer.

Truth.

 

[lee64]

I had the same issue, I had a Ram 2500 diesel and purchased a 5th wheel. I did not know any better but when I purchased a 5th wheel the dealer said I would be fine and I had plenty of truck. He even pointed to a RV trailer and said you would not be able to handle that one, this trailer would be fine, I never paid much attention because I was excited to buy and did not realize I was overweight until a few years later when I started watching YouTube videos on traveling to different states.

I started calculating and found I was about 300 lbs over payload with the 5th wheel hitch installed by the dealer before passengers and camping equipment was included in the calculated weight. I talked to the RV dealer and he acted surprised and had no idea. I at least brought it to his attention in person. I knew it was on me. but wanted to see his reaction.
The dealer even mentioned he just sold a heavier camper to someone who had a truck my size. I was very disappointed in my self because I always do my homework before buying anything, I labeled it as a lessoned learned.
Instead of losing money trading in my camper my truck held a good value and I was able to purchase a 3500 srw. Long story short I do not trust dealers anymore.

I found a few good spreadsheets on the internet that helped me., some can be overwhelming. There is also some good info on Youtube, Try searching truck payload capacity.
The truck drivers side door jamb will have the payload and all other values after build. The sticker payload will usually be lower than the truck manufacture payload chart because of extras put on the truck. The 2500 was my 1st HD truck , I even found that the gas engines for the size of trucks have higher payloads because of the weight of the diesel engines.

The truck dealer should also be able to help you, I found out the commercial division of the dealership had a worksheet they can fill out to determine your payload with the camper. You will need to provide the camper values. You will also need to add the weight of the hitch to the payload to get the correct results.

 

["EZ"]

The 5th wheel dealer will almost ALWAYS tell you your current truck is fine. If he admits your truck won't do the job it cuts into how much RV he can sell you.