Upgrading my House Batteries

[Texas Clodhopper]

I'm not financially prepared to invest in a total solar package but I'm seriously considering upgrading my 8-230AH wet cell batteries to LiFePo4 batteries. The 12v LiTime 230AH batteries are high on my list. Should I get 4 to replace the 8 wet cell batteries? Bluetooth, heated? All the options make my head swivel. I know I will need other items to safely charge the LiFePo4 batteries using the engine alternator and maybe the genset, what else? I always read not to use the LiFePo4 as engine starting batteries so how about starting the genset? Ugh!

Be easy on me my friends, I don't know enough to ask semi-intelligent questions but all advice is welcome.

 

[Richpatty]

These are all good questions…. As far as how many amp hours to get, it depends on how much dry camping you might do. And remember you probably only have to replace half of your current wet cell capacity since you really only can use half of its stated capacity anyway. So 400Ah of lithium may be enough if you do not plan much boondcoking.

Bluetooth may be nice….and depending on where you live and how cold it gets there, heated could be an option. But keep in mind you probably only have to worry about heated batteries if you need to charge them in the cold (below freezing or so). They can be used (discharged) when cold…. You could also heat the battery compartment and save money on heated batteries. Mine are not heated…have not found I needed it.

And I believe the gen gets started from the chassis battery.
A LiBim or dc to dc charger will protect the alternator. I have used a LiBim for 3 years without issue.

I hope this helps.
Keep the questions coming.
Rich

 

[Neal]

Just to add to the excellent reply from @Richpatty - first off, you don't have to have solar because you have LiFePO4 batteries. I initially did solar for a reason, storage without power, it was a great learning experience, but it has been rarely used over the years. We'll see how that plays in now with my LiFePO4 setup as that will influence me to play with the solar, but most of us big rig'ers, IMHO, are typically on shore power 98.26% of the time. The LiFePO4 batteries will last longer, have a longer warranty, and save a lot of weight. In the end, they will probably cost the same as AGM as you'd replace AGM at least twice in the lifespan of the LiFePO4 I believe.

Now it comes down to amp hours. That's how you figure out your capacity. And like I designed with my new setup, I can add four more batteries if I choose. We'll see how my 4 x 330's work out. Keep in mind you get 50% of your battery AH capacity, you'll get 90% of LiFePO4 so that math comes out to a less overall AH requirement. It's more about your budget at this point.

One thing to consider with LiFePO4 is external BMS or internal BMS, i.e. what protects the batteries. My Victron's require an external BMS, Battleborn for example has an internal BMS. I'd take a good look at SOK's and other brands. There are a lot of offerings on the market, look at warranty, etc.

I don't want to overwhelm you, keep the questions coming as Rich said. Black Friday deals are ahead. It's a good time to buy, doesn't mean you have to change them now.

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

Thanks, guys.
1. Wire in series or parallel?
2. What about cabling?
3. @Neal, do you have 4 - 300 ah batteries?
4. I've watched several of Will Prowse YouTube videos and reviews of different brand batteries.
5. Did you make your cables? @Richpatty , I live in the San Antonio area and since 2007 and have never been to an area where I needed to winterize.
6. This past year we did considerable boondocking and plan to do similar this next year.
7. I need to confirm my Mangum MS2812 is compatible with lithium charging.

 

[Neal]

4 x 330's - they have come down in price quite a bit since I bit that bullet.

MOD - 2017 Newmar Ventana gets major Victron LiFePO4 upgrade

The dreaded before picture. From the thread "It is time...for new house batteries" - introducing the new house batteries! This article and discussion will likely evolve, I'll do my best to tell the story with as much detail as I can remember. It has been quite the week and a ton of information...

rvforums.com

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

4 x 330's - they have come down in price quite a bit since I bit that bullet.

MOD - 2017 Newmar Ventana gets major Victron LiFePO4 upgrade

The dreaded before picture. From the thread "It is time...for new house batteries" - introducing the new house batteries! This article and discussion will likely evolve, I'll do my best to tell the story with as much detail as I can remember. It has been quite the week and a ton of information...

rvforums.com

Wow...there are several hours of reading and re-reading to be done. Unbelievable write-up.

 

[Richpatty]

Wow...there are several hours of reading and re-reading to be done. Unbelievable write-up.

Thats for sure!
Put my install to shame...

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

Thats for sure!
Put my install to shame...

Let me put it this way, he has almost twice as much invested in his solar system as I paid for my first home.

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

@Richpatty, do you have a post somewhere with a more realistic @Texas Clodhopper budget?

 

[Richpatty]

@Richpatty, do you have a post somewhere with a more realistic @Texas Clodhopper budget?

LOL. Sure. Here is my Lithium thread from 2022.

Move to Lithium

So as I get ready for my Lithium project, I began to think about the best way to wire them. I will have 8 100ah GC2 sized battleborns. I know many of you use the wiring method on the left (see below). I have seen articles that say the diagram on the right pulls power from the batteries...

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Look to post #41 on the thread for my install.

Rich

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

Thanks.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Typically a battery used to crank has a cranking anp spec. And With enough lithium batteries you could get the needed cranking amps

So how does an EV manage excess loads? Well the "way", to handle regen, and acceleration is to include a supper capacitor! This moderate investment can drastically reduce the battery bank requirements!!! Note that this will not change the required AH to make it to the next charge cycle.

 

[Neal]

Let me put it this way, he has almost twice as much invested in his solar system as I paid for my first home.

Okay now, that didn't include "solar" so you have to deduct the price of your Big Wheel.

 

[newmarokie]

Clodhopper, I replaced my 8 6v batteries last January with three 206 amp hour SOK heated bluetooth batteries. I lowered my battery weight by almost 400#. My magnum 2812 would come on and recharge the batteries every six to seven days when plugged in in the barn. You do need to "close up" your battery bay to keep moisture out. My generator starts just fine off of the house batteries. I just recently removed one of the batteries and the genny still starts fine. You will need to change the settings in the 2812 and probably be happier if you get an ARC-50 to replace the RC-50(plug and play)

 

[osuallen]

Thanks, guys.
1. Wire in series or parallel?
2. What about cabling?
3. @Neal, do you have 4 - 300 ah batteries?
4. I've watched several of Will Prowse YouTube videos and reviews of different brand batteries.
5. Did you make your cables? @Richpatty , I live in the San Antonio area and since 2007 and have never been to an area where I needed to winterize.
6. This past year we did considerable boondocking and plan to do similar this next year.
7. I need to confirm my Mangum MS2812 is compatible with lithium charging.

Your house batteries are 6 volt, so they are wired in series/parallel to create a 12 volt "battery bank". LiFePO4's thatbyou will be looking at are going to be 12 volt - so wiring in parallel.

 

[punkinhead]

Clodhopper, I replaced my 8 6v batteries last January with three 206 amp hour SOK heated bluetooth batteries. I lowered my battery weight by almost 400#. My magnum 2812 would come on and recharge the batteries every six to seven days when plugged in in the barn. You do need to "close up" your battery bay to keep moisture out.

I'm curious how you sealed up your battery compartment. I swapped out my 8 6V for one 460 ah lithium last week but didn't have anything on hand to seal up the compartment. I had originally thought I'd use foam board insulation board but the walls aren't nice flat panels - there are lots of brackets, bolts, and other protrusions that keeps anything from laying flat against the walls. I'm thinking of using something like a thin rubber membrane. Maybe the membrane you lay down before tiling a shower.

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

Today was the day to do one last task on my list on my 2017 Newmar Ventana prior to the next trip. I've been wanting to upgrade my 3.4 gpm water pump to a 5.3 gpm pump to see if it can better handle water running in multiple locations such as taking a shower while the washer is running and not impact either. I also wanted to add an accumulator tank as at times the master bathroom faucet will pulsate due to the low demand on the water pump. Having researched accumulator tanks and watched various YouTube videos on it I'm surprised it's not installed standard in all RV's, at least luxury RV's. It seems to handle low pressure demands much better and also extend the life of the water pump.

I changed my REMCO 3.4 gpm aquajet with a REMCO aquajet ARV 5.3 gpm model. Certainly a beefier and slightly larger pump yet remains within the water pump controller power limits and has the same pressure output max so no risk of blowing pipes. As to the accumulator, also went with REMCO's accumulator, looks like a nice quality product. Picked up some fittings and braided water line and off I went.

Spent about 4 hours today removing the wet bay panel and swapping pumps. I guess I see why the accumulator is not standard in all as I really didn't have a good place to mount it. So it's sitting towards the back near the low point drain valve. While the job isn't yet complete, I have about an hour of work, everything is reconnected so at least I could test the pump and it works great. Also something of note is that when you use an accumulator tank the water pump will always continue running about 5-10 seconds after demand for water is off so it recharges the accumulator tank.

While I'm glad the job is done I want to ask the community for a favor. Any time I ever mention doing something that requires taking the wet bay panel off or tell someone it's not hard. Please begin an immediate intervention, or worse, just stop me. I never want to deal with this wet bay panel again and of course all my little mod's to it such as drainmaster automatic gates, SeeLevel, sani-con, dual house filter, etc. Bring me the Advil!!!!

I'm curious how you sealed up your battery compartment. I swapped out my 8 6V for one 460 ah lithium last week but didn't have anything on hand to seal up the compartment. I had originally thought I'd use foam board insulation board but the walls aren't nice flat panels - there are lots of brackets, bolts, and other protrusions that keeps anything from laying flat against the walls. I'm thinking of using something like a thin rubber membrane. Maybe the membrane you lay down before tiling a shower.

I've been scratching my head over this also.

 

[newmarokie]

Punkin,
The left, right, and bottom were pretty easy. 3/4" plywood. The frame rail, I pieced in 2" insulation secured with flexseal spray and flextape for small holes and cracks. Then I cut a piece of plywood for the back wall and secured it to the plywood pn the sides and floor with small pieces of angle iron.

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

I copied this from @Richpatty 's post.

Move to Lithium

As an addendum to this thread, I thought I would add some "in progress" pictures and the steps I took along the way. I probably should have posted back on post #27, but better late than never. First step was to power everything down, disconnect and remove batteries. Good riddance to these rust...

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