Well it wasn’t the fuel filters….(to make a short story long)

[Sand-dog]

Wow Rich - what a great read and thank you for the education. See what happens when you’re stuck in a motel longer than you want to be…….

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

Dang!!!! I can't wait to hear the rest of the story!

 

[Rich W.]

Dang!!!! I can't wait to hear the rest of the story!

I don’t know it yet but I should later today. When I’m ready to write about it is another story. But we’ll see.

 

[Rustycoach]

This is why I hate having to rely on “experts”! A truck repair outfit working on what is a very common engine configuration should have the competence to get a diagnosis right the first time. I would be more forgiving if you were asking them to diagnose and repair your Lamborghini which they most certainly would know nothing about!
I hope they will work out a fair and equitable deal for you especially if it cost you several days unnecessarily.

 

[Rich W.]

Well they got it all back together and cut the labor down to what was necessary, and I’m headed east, so far so good. I have an appointment at the Freightliner shop in Lincoln this morning to have them check the intake and exhaust systems, try to answer some unanswered questions, and also check all the work the other shop did. Its worth a couple more hours of shop time at this point to try to regain my confidence in this rig.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

. . . . . I hope they will work out a fair and equitable deal for you especially if it cost you several days unnecessarily.

My definition of "equitable" might differ from others. My intent would be to pay only for what parts and labor would be required for the repair to be done correctly from the get go minus the extra time & trouble I incurred due to someone else learning and not knowing. The $$ they didn't receive from me for work that shouldn't have been done & for the time & trouble that waste generated for me would be an incurred expense their accountant could put under the heading "training" as at face value, they were clearly in need of more.

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

I certainly understand the regaining of the confidence factor. I hope it all checks out at your next stop.

 

[Rich W.]

Here it is just about exactly as I suspected - glad I took it to another shop. I’ll reserve my opinion(s) - just glad it will be buttoned up right.


JOB #1 EA
COMPLAINT
CAUSE CORRECTION
EXPRESS ASSESSMENT
CUSTOMER STATES THEY HAD UNIT AT FLOYD'S - THEY REPLACED EXH MANIFOLD BUT STILL HAS A LEAK NEAR THE INTAKE.
1851 40051 CHECKED CODES AND THERE WERE NO CODES PRESENT. MONITORED SENSORS WITH KEY ON ENGINE OFF AND THEY WERE READING IN SPEC. VISUALLY INSPECTED FOR INTAKE LEAKS AND FOUND THE AIR COMPRESSOR INLET PIPE WAS NOT HOOKED UP TO THE AIR COMPRESSOR CAUSING A LARGE BOOST LEAK. WILL NEED TO REPLACE 90 DEGREE AIR COMPRESSOR INLET HOSE AND CLAMPS AND THEN SECURE THE COMPRESSOR INLET PIPE WITH P CLAMPS AT THE COMPRESSOR AND ENGINE. CURRENTLY THE PIPE IS NOT SECURED. CHECKED OVER FROM PREVIOUS REPAIRS AND FOUND AN EXHAUST LEAK AT THE TURBO OUTLET FLANGE RIGHT AT THE OUTLET OF THE TURBO, THE TURBO INLET CLAMP NEEDS REPOSITIONED, THERES A LOOSE CLAMP AT THE AIR FILTER INLET, THERES A LOOSE BOLT AT THE LEFT HAND RADIATOR SUPPORT AND THE LOWER RADIATOR HOSE IS RUBBING ON THE FRAME AND WILL NEED REPOSITIONED.

Interesting reading to say the least….

 

[Rich W.]

JOB #3 100
COMPLAINT
CAUSE CORRECTION
SERVICE ORDER: RA108024866 ESTIMATE: ES108020897
DESCRIPTION
EST PER EA - REPLACE AIR COMPRESSOR HOSE/CLAMPS AND TURBO OUTLET FLANGE CLAMP/GASKETS - SECURE INLET PIPE, REPOSITION CLAMP AT TURBO INLET AND HOSE AT LOWER RADIATOR - TIGHTEN CLAMP AT AIR FILTER INLET AND BOLT AT LH RADIATOR SUPPORT REPLACE AIR COMPRESSOR HOSE/CLAMPS AND TURBO OUTLET FLANGE CLAMP/GASKETS - SECURE INLET PIPE, REPOSITION CLAMP AT TURBO INLET AND HOSE AT LOWER RADIATOR - TIGHTEN CLAMP AT AIR FILTER INLET AND BOLT AT LH RADIATOR SUPPORT 1,110.00
108D/DDE A4722005052
LINE COOLANT SUPPLY ONE CYL AI 22.65
108D/TCX AMS012
GASKET-4 INCH SPHERICAL W/TABS 17.14
108D/TCX T130130349AC2
CLAMP-V BAND 4 HDEP SPHERICAL 24.67
***EST SHOP SUPPLIES*** 166.50
16.75
Parts: $64.46 Labor: $1,110.00
Misc: $166.50
$1,340.96

Plus of course $370 for the initial assessment and a few bucks for supplies and tax. But what’s another $1,800 at this point….Any yes, I will be talking to the management at Floyds. Might not get me anywhere, but I will certainly have the conversation.

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

Floyds would be owing me some money or at least a fantastic explanation as to why they don't.
There is a form someplace on the FCC website to report dealer experiences and from what I understand, FTL takes these reports seriously.

 

[Rich W.]

For now we are holed up in a nice $360 hotel room for the night (chose decent over cheap). This shop is open 24/7 and they had all the parts in stock, so it will actually be done sometime Saturday morning. I’ll still make my appt at HWH on Monday but since I’ve completely missed my week at the Mothership (the whole reason for this trip) I’ll looking for a place to have my windshield replaced and all my slides and toppers serviced-adjusted-repaired etc. I’m thinking NIRVC in Vegas for the slides and I hear there is a good windshield shop in Phoenix. Also in Portland. Anyone have info on either of those?

 

[Rich W.]

Floyds would be owing me some money or at least a fantastic explanation as to why they don't.
There is a form someplace on the FCC website to report dealer experiences and from what I understand, FTL takes these reports seriously.

I’ll definitely look into the FCC complaint idea - Floyds is listed as a Freightliner “Elite” service center, so I felt confident going there, and really couldn’t drive any further anyway. As it was I drove a mile that fateful morning listening to a God-awful screech from the exhaust leak. It will be interesting since I have one Elite Dealer commenting on the work of another, one day after I left the first shop

 

[Neal]

Maybe make others aware?

RV Service Centers & Mobile Techs

If you used a mobile RV service or a RV service center you want to make others aware of please list it in this forum.

rvforums.com

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

Hopefully, you can get some satisfaction from FCCC if you can't from Floyds.

DTNAPartner

Contact Us | Freightliner Custom Chassis

At Freightliner Custom Chassis, we love to hear from our customers. After all, it’s the best way to make sure our customer service meets your expectations.

www.freightlinerchassis.com

 

[Scooterfan]

RV Glass Solutions in Phoenix for the windshield (unless you're coming back via Coburg OR) OR warehouse will be the best price plus no sales tax. We had a very good experience with them as their business is to manufacture and install RV windshields.

 

[Rich W.]

Maybe make others aware?

RV Service Centers & Mobile Techs

If you used a mobile RV service or a RV service center you want to make others aware of please list it in this forum.

rvforums.com

They made some mistakes and a couple members of the front counter staff were a little less than pleasant, and they pretty much shoved me out the door after their mistakes were obvious, I think as much to get rid of another @#$& RV as to get me back on the road, but if you’re stranded and thats all there is, well at least they are there, FWIW.

What really concerns me is folks with more limited means and full timing or working from their RVs. I can afford both the time and money so I’m really not all that bent out of shape over this, probably not as much as I should be. But I can imagine some people, perhaps many, being really impacted by this sort of thing, both in terms of time and money. I guess thats what bothers me the most about this. That and some young beginner mechanic’s job probably being in jeopardy. But that is beyond my control.

 

[Rustymayes]

Thanks Rich for taking the time to relay your experience so thoroughly. Now people like me who have always done their own servicing are better educated on what is really important to look out for. My coach only has 6,000 miles on it so I imagine it will be a few years before these kind of issues materialize. I wonder how many of these items that caused your initial emergency are the result of poor workmanship at past service intervals and what is just fatigue from the age and mileage of the coach?
Rusty

 

[Bigblockyeti]

I was confused initially as to what involvement the Federal Communications Commission might have over the service center then realized that's probably a different FCC.
I now better understand why in middle school English class we proof read each other's work before turning it in, that's essentially what the second dealer is doing for the first, only you get to pay for both.
I wouldn't think an exhaust leak after the turbine would be super loud beyond a whistle. I would imagine a large boost leak from a fitting the size required to feed the air compressor to be extremely loud, especially when more power was being called for.
The less than competent service place really does need to make this right and figure out internally what changes are required to ensure this poor level of service is a thing of the past. While the time and money are of less concern to you, it's a function of principle. If they're not set straight it only empowers them to perpetuate the kind of service and attitude you received to everyone else in need of getting work done correctly the first time.

 

[Rich W.]

Well that’s a good question Rusty. Something caused the exhaust manifold to over heat and warp when the engine was at normal op temp, and I had a lower than normal boost situation. Everyone’s best guess, including my own was a boot or clamp on the intake side until the mech at Floyds said their test showed it was the CAC leaking.

Once apart and tested separately, that proved to be false - the CAC tested separately did not leak the slightest amount, so we were back to a boot, gasket, or clamp. It’s hard to say given the short but complicated history of this incident and what Truck Centers found after the work at Floyds.

There’s just too many variables to nail it down conclusively. But Truck Centers did find a lot as noted above. Was something like the compressor hose overlooked by Floyds initially or left off during their reassembly? Was it a turbo or inlet system clamp that they fixed without knowing it but left others loose? And on and on. Hard to say.

I do agree that there was an intake system leak somewhere leading to a rich fuel/air ratio allowing the exhaust to over heat warping the manifold while the engine never overheated. This also explains the greater than normal frequency of active regens due to the increased soot that this would create. But the exact cause is anyone’s guess at this point.

I’ll talk to them more when I pick it up tomorrow morning. I do the majority of my maintenance myself as well, and the only work done by a shop (Sacramento Truck Center) in the last year was a preemptive belt change and a new radiator surge tank installation - neither of which could be related.

One useful takeaway from all this is that a low boost situation is not to be ignored. It was about 7-8 psi low and I was concerned but initially thought (hoped) it could be from fuel constriction (filters). Less fuel equals less combustion equals less turbo output. After ruling that out (on the road) I looked at this condition as an inconvenience that would require attention soon - but not something that could cause damage. Live and learn. Also an annual inspection of the entire intake system would not be a bad idea.

 

[Rich W.]

I was confused initially as to what involvement the Federal Communications Commission might have over the service center then realized that's probably a different FCC.
I now better understand why in middle school English class we proof read each other's work before turning it in, that's essentially what the second dealer is doing for the first, only you get to pay for both.
I wouldn't think an exhaust leak after the turbine would be super loud beyond a whistle. I would imagine a large boost leak from a fitting the size required to feed the air compressor to be extremely loud, especially when more power was being called for.
The less than competent service place really does need to make this right and figure out internally what changes are required to ensure this poor level of service is a thing of the past. While the time and money are of less concern to you, it's a function of principle. If they're not set straight it only empowers them to perpetuate the kind of service and attitude you received to everyone else in need of getting work done correctly the first time.

Yes, its FCCC - Freightliner Custom Chassis Corp.

The exhaust leak that was making all the noise when I took it to Floyds initially was before the turbo - right at the head - the manifold warped enough to break bolts. The exhaust leak noted in the write up from Truck Centers that was at the turbo outlet flange was a new development resulting from incorrect reassembly. Floyds had to R&R the turbo to change the manifold.

We listened for obvious intake system leaks several times over a couple days as this situation evolved, (by putting it in gear with brakes applied and putting it under load), and could never discern anything out of the ordinary although it did seem to sound different when driving right next to k-rail and that could have been an intake system leak.

The exhaust manifold leak was clearly a new development when I started the engine the next morning after spending the night at Cabela‘s in Sidney - my guess being that it got worse when everything had cooled because we did not hear it at all the day before. And there was no way anyone could miss it - it was loud from the driver’s seat.

The other startling discovery was the radiator hose rubbing on the frame after reassembly. This again was a new condition resulting from incorrect reassembly and a ticking time bomb. I can easily imagine it leaving us stranded again weeks or even months later, with no recourse and checking everything Floyds did, including the radiator and CAC R&R, was one of the chief reasons for driving directly to another shop under different ownership after leaving Floyds. One shouldn’t have to do this but I had a bad feeling about the reassembly work, and obviously for good reason.

And believe me I’m not going to ignore this and having one Freightliner Elite service center document and fix another’s mistakes will be a point that will be very difficult to ignore or dispute. Especially if I involve Freightliner which I most likely will. My point was that while this didn’t impact me all that much (other than missing my week at the Mothership), it would be devastating to some and as such must be addressed and corrected.