RV Industry Faces Worst Spending Slump Since The Great Recession

[Kevin D Pem]

Truly build quality is part of the problem. But inflation in everything RV related can't be overlooked.

The dream state is fragile! When you see your food bill higher every trip to the store. And the drive over to the RV lot cost an extra buck or two, you can't help but understand why there's a slump in the RV market spending.

Not being negative,just being realistic.

When those people that used to buy your trade ins quit buying because outside pressures of staying afloat. Well trading up becomes more difficult.

If you're sponsored, as in racing circuit buyer's are, then trade ins can be looked at as cost of doing business (I believe the reason Newmar is courting racing exposure). For everyone that can't look at ownership in that way trade ins as a cost of doing business, need to add inflation cost into the equation.

 

[Neal]

I bet if we went back to before RV's had motors, they were talking about bad build quality too!

RV's don't go through Q/A like cars do. They are kludged together and only have to successfully operate until across the dealer's curb!

 

[Underboss]

I bet if we went back to before RV's had motors, they were talking about bad build quality too!

RV's don't go through Q/A like cars do. They are kludged together and only have to successfully operate until across the dealer's curb!

Different animals. Cars are mass produced so much that you take the car with the least sales and I would venture a guess that that model alone outsells rvs 1000 to 1
To build an rv with the detail and level of a car would take an 800k coach to 2 mil minimum. Lets not overlook that Prevost's at 3 mil still have quality issues and more.
The technology in all vehicles the last few years has grown exponentially. The more tech in an rv chances are the more issues.
As for costs rising, the last year and the insanity believing tariffs would help has completely upended manufacturing and farming in the USA. Prices of everything have skyrocketed. Coffee in 12/24 was 9.99 for 3 lbs at costco, same brand and size in $22. Who is going to spend money on a coach (besides a few of us) with the threat of endless inflation with no end in sight?

 

[turbopilot]

Let's examine some of the issues contributing to the "RV Slump".

I think the biggest issue is that the market is trying to digest the glut of RV's bought during the pandemic. When those pandemic RV's become "old" the cycle will reverse.

The biggest question is how so many people can buy such poorly built, badly designed and low reliability RV machines. There are two reasons. The biggest reason is the avalanche of paid internet/Youtube influencers. These people make their living by selling "good news" when the news may not be so good.

A close companion to the paid internet influencers are the people who actually talk about their RV experience through the vail of being fully infected by the Stockholm Syndrome. After paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for an awful machine some folks will defend the decision because they don't want to admit to such a poor choice or compromise the resale value of their bad decision.

But the biggest problem is that an RV is a luxury item that for many people is seldom used. For rational reasons they want to spend as little as possible on a seldom used toy. So they buy based on price, not quality. During the last 10 years I think many people realize the vast majority of RV's are just junk and they have just given up.

A well engineered, quality built RV is very hard to sell given the current conditions.

 

[Jim]

Different animals. Cars are mass produced so much that you take the car with the least sales and I would venture a guess that that model alone outsells rvs 1000 to 1
To build an rv with the detail and level of a car would take an 800k coach to 2 mil minimum. Lets not overlook that Prevost's at 3 mil still have quality issues and more.
The technology in all vehicles the last few years has grown exponentially. The more tech in an rv chances are the more issues.
As for costs rising, the last year and the insanity believing tariffs would help has completely upended manufacturing and farming in the USA. Prices of everything have skyrocketed. Coffee in 12/24 was 9.99 for 3 lbs at costco, same brand and size in $22. Who is going to spend money on a coach (besides a few of us) with the threat of endless inflation with no end in sight?

You make some good points @Underboss, especially regarding production volume. But I'm not convinced that building a well-assembled RV would require an $800,000 to $2 million coach.

Many of the issues owners complain about aren't engineering challenges, they're basic workmanship and quality-control issues. Loose plumbing fittings, missing screws, poorly adjusted cabinet doors, sloppy sealant, unsecured wiring, and similar defects don't require a million-dollar coach to prevent. They require better assembly practices and a better final inspection before the coach leaves the factory.

I don't expect Lexus quality in an RV. I do expect all the screws to make the trip from Indiana.

 

[JBright11]

You make some good points @Underboss, especially regarding production volume. But I'm not convinced that building a well-assembled RV would require an $800,000 to $2 million coach.

Many of the issues owners complain about aren't engineering challenges, they're basic workmanship and quality-control issues. Loose plumbing fittings, missing screws, poorly adjusted cabinet doors, sloppy sealant, unsecured wiring, and similar defects don't require a million-dollar coach to prevent. They require better assembly practices and a better final inspection before the coach leaves the factory.

I don't expect Lexus quality in an RV. I do expect all the screws to make the trip from Indiana.

Bingo! The processes must deliver a better product that is then validated by final inspection.
True quality assurance focuses on the processes and designs them to deliver the required quality.

 

[Chargerman]

I’ve toured both Newmars and Entegras DP facilities. It wouldn’t take rocket science to implement a true quality system but none of them is willing to make the call. Start by eliminating pay by piecework, implement quality steps at each station. Implement a bonus system that is based on each depts. quality “escapes”. The lower the escapes the higher the bonus.

 

[Underboss]

You make some good points @Underboss, especially regarding production volume. But I'm not convinced that building a well-assembled RV would require an $800,000 to $2 million coach.

Many of the issues owners complain about aren't engineering challenges, they're basic workmanship and quality-control issues. Loose plumbing fittings, missing screws, poorly adjusted cabinet doors, sloppy sealant, unsecured wiring, and similar defects don't require a million-dollar coach to prevent. They require better assembly practices and a better final inspection before the coach leaves the factory.

I don't expect Lexus quality in an RV. I do expect all the screws to make the trip from Indiana.

I agree but most of that is covered with a cpu at the factory. Yes you pay extra but it covers those additional costs. If you search my history I always said that you should not have to pay extra for whats expected. But that extra has eyes over the whole coach.
I am talking Newmar here but they are different from so many other manufacturers, yes you come across issues but not the multitude as you do in Thor or Forest River products. I had a Dynamax ISATA 4, I cringed everytime I put the slide out. Always wondered if it would make it, beyond the noise the controller would just time out and need a reprogram. Those are real issues

 

[Holdmybeer]

I’ve toured both Newmars and Entegras DP facilities. It wouldn’t take rocket science to implement a true quality system but none of them is willing to make the call. Start by eliminating pay by piecework, implement quality steps at each station. Implement a bonus system that is based on each depts. quality “escapes”. The lower the escapes the higher the bonus.

The problem with that is in the math. A shareholder doesn't give a fig whether you're building the best or the worst RV on the planet. The plants aren't run by engineers, they're run by MBA's and salesmen whose fiduciary obligation is to the shareholders. As long as they can make money mass producing junk, that's what they're going to produce. There's no incentive to do differently.
Boeing here in the DFW had a rigorous quality control process in place. Problem was engineers and MBA's don't make for a harmonious workplace. Ultimately it was not the engineers calling the shots but the MBA's ( workplace politics). That's how they endrd up with an airplane that flew itself into the ground like a yarddart.

 

[Vint]

The biggest question is how so many people can buy such poorly built, badly designed and low reliability RV

Most of us who participate in RV forums are experienced RVers, often with years of experience on all levels and types of RVs, from pop-ups, camper vans, bumper pulls, 5ers, and everything motorized, up to Prevosts, Newells, etc. With all the knowledge we have acquired, most have gained a great deal of insight into the trials and tribulations of the RV industry over the years. But, to answer turbo's question, the first-time buyers, we like to call newbies, don't have the information and insight that we possess. They go into a Camping World, General RV, Blue Compass, and other dealers and are raw meat for the waiting, hungry salesman.

When my RV broke down in Raleigh in April, my brother wanted to take me to a Camping World to see about a trade-in. I told my brother, "The only people who buy RVs at CW are first-time RV buyers." We went anyway at his insistence, and my opinion of CW was solidified by their sales practices.

These people make their living by selling "good news" when the news may not be so good.

First, there is nothing wrong with people making a living, especially doing something they appear to love doing. They aren't there trying to "sell good news". For folks who enjoy watching some YouTubers, they provide a "travelogue" of great information on places to visit and experiences in this vast country. They provide travel adventures that many folks who don't even own an RV, like my brother in Raleigh, get enjoyment from viewing. Most don't sugarcoat what they go through with keeping up their RVs or tow vehicles, campground issues, breakdowns of tow vehicles, and anything else that can happen while on the road. Many are quite forthright in showing you their expenses, good and bad, during their journeys.

They require better assembly practices and a better final inspection before the coach leaves the factory.

I believe a lot of the quality issues in today's RVs start in the engineering stages, or the quality of the engineers themselves. They are the ones who design using PEX tubing clamps on flexible water lines. Engineers designed Schwintek slide-out systems. They design some of the poor interior designs where doors open into other doors, thermostats hidden behind slide-outs, staples and glue for construction materials, balsa wood roofs and walls, on and on. Better engineering would lead to better-built RVs IMHO.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Bingo! The processes must deliver a better product that is then validated by final inspection.
True quality assurance focuses on the processes and designs them to deliver the required quality.

My comment excludes Auto industry to avoid arguments.

When our Asian competitors entered the US market we called their products junk. The reason was not the products as much as them outsourcing inspection to the customer. When they realized the customers returned products, and the shipping costs were higher than proper quality control, they took over the markets they entered.

The American companies that didn't learn that lesson are no longer. It's doesn't matter if you think it was Labor cost or not. Shipping costs will eat up profits. Nash is a case study in shipping cost error!

That said! True story.
Yesterday while scrolling thru this topic a camper was negotiating the area I am camping. The roads are not maintained deeply rutted with dryed up ponds where water settled. You know the type if you four wheel. He was bumper pulling his 30 ft trailer looking for the ideal spot. Mind you, I travel the road at 10 miles an hour,slowing for dips when not towing to keep everything including myself from being rejected. He was according to my estimate doing 25 to 30.

Folks be realistic! If the cabinets were through bolted in place the hole used for the bolts would likely weaken the rafters enough to break.

There is enough blame to go around that it covers everyone in the industry, including the inspector/customers.