Need some advice on solar

[Ezza]

Hello all,

I'm new here, and also new to the fifth wheel life. My girlfriend and I have recently looked into purchasing a Jayco Eagle 319MLOK. We are wanting to put enough solar on it to never need to plug it in, I understand I'll need batteries, but curious what a sufficient amount of Panels, etc, would be?


Thanks in advance.

If this is the wrong section, I apologize.

 

[Neal]

Welcome @Ezza - great to have you with us. You'll need to determine your electrical demand, battery bank size, and then size solar for that. AMSolar.com is a great company I highly recommend.

amsolar.com

amsolar.com

 

[Gronk]

50A and two ACs will make for a pretty big load. Like Neal said, figure out your load, size the inverters and go from there. Keep us informed as to what you decide and any installations you do.

 

[Ezza]

So slight change of plans, may end up going with a Jayco North Point 377RLBH now. Have a meeting to speak with a tech at the dealer with all the above to figure out exactly what we'd need.

Thanks all so far =)

 

[Gronk]

Just my opinion, but double check what the dealer tech says........

 

[Ezza]

Of course, lol. Just from what I heard he was saying don’t overbuy on panels without having the proper room to store the energy. Will update y’all tomorrow though once I talk to him.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

No RV yet? see your changing model numbers. First question of course is will you try using the A/C? If you are then solar is not going to do the Job. The roof is not big enough for those kind of installs. Are you planning off grid dispersed camping and that is the reason? Are you planning on full timing. Have you lived off grid before?

Just for the record I have been involved with solar from 2013 onward. I have done this while full timing and know how to sweat when it's hot because anything else would require the generator.

I tell people a couple of things, both fairly general but will repeat them again for you.

No installation could be called a solar installation with less than 500watts. For the record for a month last year I managed keeping things going on one 280watt panel, but that was in conservation (ration) mode. I was happy with 1250 watt install but still had to ration on cloudy days. Anything over this amount will increase the ability of your system.

I now have 2000 watts of solar, I keep 2 apartment size refrigerators going and a small freezer, but I run a generator if I use the A/C. I use an inductive hotplate, and an instant pot, sparingly.

I hope that is to much information.

 

[Ezza]

No RV yet? see your changing model numbers. First question of course is will you try using the A/C? If you are then solar is not going to do the Job. The roof is not big enough for those kind of installs. Are you planning off grid dispersed camping and that is the reason? Are you planning on full timing. Have you lived off grid before?

Just for the record I have been involved with solar from 2013 onward. I have done this while full timing and know how to sweat when it's hot because anything else would require the generator.

I tell people a couple of things, both fairly general but will repeat them again for you.

No installation could be called a solar installation with less than 500watts. For the record for a month last year I managed keeping things going on one 280watt panel, but that was in conservation (ration) mode. I was happy with 1250 watt install but still had to ration on cloudy days. Anything over this amount will increase the ability of your system.

I now have 2000 watts of solar, I keep 2 apartment size refrigerators going and a small freezer, but I run a generator if I use the A/C. I use an inductive hotplate, and an instant pot, sparingly.

I hope that is to much information.

This is why I registered on here to ask, I would be using the A/C from time to time, I live in Arizona so gets a bit toasty here. Other than that it’s just the tv occasionally, and the fridge. Was trying to avoid the gas with the generator, but may look into a back up solar generator. Just so many questions. Appreciate your feedback.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

This is why I registered on here to ask, I would be using the A/C from time to time, I live in Arizona so gets a bit toasty here. Other than that it’s just the tv occasionally, and the fridge. Was trying to avoid the gas with the generator, but may look into a back up solar generator. Just so many questions. Appreciate your feedback.

A solar generator is nothing more than an inverter, battery, and small panels. I too reside in AZ. My comfort comes by following the temperatures. From Yuma to sedona area, to flagstaff area to white mountains in the heat of summer then back down as the temps change. Daytime use of a 7000btu A/C can happen but not night time. If you try, your charge time will not catch up and you will be left with less power every day you do try.

So what part of AZ?

 

[Chuggs]

Kevin pointed out some very important facts regarding solar.

There are two approaches, in my opinion...

1) Go based on the Advice of respected RV specific solar installers. They routinely interview clients to find out what their needs are and have been refining these systems for years. They have a pretty good handle on what it possible...and tailor it to fit the clients needs.

2) Hold your horses a bit. First install a good Battery Monitoring device. Shunt sensed amperage in/out...like the Victron BMV-712 or Victron SmartShunt 500. Then go out and camp under similar conditions to your planned use. Zero out the amp-hr count...and see what the rig uses each 24 hr period. Take the high...and reverse engineer the solar system to meet these demands. The solar system in primarily a battery charger...but needs to be pair with a battery bank sufficient to meet the demands. The power of your solar needs to match the capability of your battery bank. No sense putting a 100A solar charger on a single 12v battery...and no sense putting a 10A solar charger on a 1000ah bank of Lithium batteries.

Since you're starting ground up...look into the benefits of Lithium...as well as their limitations (mostly temp related). Learn what Peukert effect is and how you get robbed with Flooded Lead Acid batteries vs AGM or Lithium while running high load items such as the Mircrowave.

Figure the solar output is NOT, I would say almost NEVER going to put out it's rated Wattage. The sun intensity (watts/meter sq.)_, the panel temperature, and panel angle to the sun...all have to be perfect. And perfect just doesn't happen that often. Some use an 80% factor and a good 5hrs of production each day to wind up hitting their desired mark.

The battery monitor will be an important component of your Solar and general power management system.. It's always a great place to start.

Take into consideration shading, lattitude, temperature, and weather patterns (clouds/rain)_...to best reflect your use.

As you plan...you will come up with more specific questions...and you can always bounce your intended component list against the crowd to get a feel for what they think... You'll get some great advice...and hopefully avoid a costly design mistake.

 

[FL-JOE]

If you are trying to set up solar to avoid buying gas for an on-board generator (a/c use) then you are probably wasting a ton of money. It will be interesting to hear some of the estimates you get for attempting to set this all up.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

My Daughter went off grid this year in FL. Her 8000 of solar did very well but on the first stretch of hot humid days she lamented on how her battery bank had suffered and never made it back up to full charge. She asked if I thought they should go to the back-up to allow the batteries to recover.

We are all in agreement here. Solar can be expensive in comparison to other kinds of equipment. We also can't realistically install on an RV enough solar to cool our rig. I installed(as a portable unit) swamp cooler, you know the expensive type made of plastic in my MH while I was fixed in one location. I spent most of my life in AZ using such contraptions and although uncomfortable they keep you alive. This unit ran on the 1250 of solar and kept the fridge going without problems.

The biggest Thing you can do when installing solar is decide what you can do without. The options for off grid are as @FL-JOE brought up. Fuel for the genny. The genny is cheap under a grand will get you into one that will run the A/C. Here is my story:

I was having a hard time accepting the fuel thing because the price per gal had reached 3.50, and was expected to rise to well over 5 at the time. At 3 a gal I was burning 1 gal a day with swamp cooler. Monthly electric bill? 300 a mo. Pricing panels I could at the time buy 1250 w for 800 and considered all things minus the battery bank as I already had them (not enough). My 4x6v bank was to little for the job, but the cooler would run during the day. In the day AGM's were in the future. 400 Ah at 12v, my system 200Ah at 24v to lower cost of system.

I learned to sweat again(swamp cooler).

Question: How long will it take to pay for the system with gas not spent?
How can you lower the cost of the system?
How long will the system be viable with "the Dimming" (a reference to a YouTube video)?

If you want to go from scratch as @Gronk states with Lithium, I will add you should look into LTO batteries. Much of his info above is spot on so listen. Because you can't have a system on an RV that can keep up completely, a backup will fill the void.

Answers:
1. The above system took me 6 mos to pay for in gas dollars not spent. Did the work DIY.
2. DIY using used panels. A place in Gilbert AZ called San Tan solar sells used panels that I use and pick-up for others. last price 50 for 250.
3. hummmm depends if we can stop them.

 

[Chuggs]

I don’t look at Solar v. Generator as a thing...

Instead of contemplating which is more cost effective...ask yourself —- Do you want system diversity? Do you want system redundancy?

I had an interior screw come loose in my Onan QD8000. According to the mechanic that finally fixed it...the screw would get sucked up into the Governor, and confuse the speed control...causing it to immediately shut down. So...a legend in the industry...Onan...can fail too. To be honest...solar Systems are worthy of being called reliable. You do have to take into consideration where the sun is...but it’s something that just keeps going and going.

So instead of either or...I think having both gives me more choices. More options to pick...especially if one system encounters a breakdown.

I sure wouldn’t rip my generator out...just because I added solar AND I don’t short change the value of the Solar, just because I have a generator. They both add value...diversity...redundancy. It’s a good thing.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

I don’t look at Solar v. Generator as a thing...

Instead of contemplating which is more cost effective...ask yourself —- Do you want system diversity? Do you want system redundancy?

I had an interior screw come loose in my Onan QD8000. According to the mechanic that finally fixed it...the screw would get sucked up into the Governor, and confuse the speed control...causing it to immediately shut down. So...a legend in the industry...Onan...can fail too. To be honest...solar Systems are worthy of being called reliable. You do have to take into consideration where the sun is...but it’s something that just keeps going and going.

So instead of either or...I think having both gives me more choices. More options to pick...especially if one system encounters a breakdown.

I sure wouldn’t rip my generator out...just because I added solar AND I don’t short change the value of the Solar, just because I have a generator. They both add value...diversity...redundancy. It’s a good thing.

hear hear!

 

[Ezza]

A solar generator is nothing more than an inverter, battery, and small panels. I too reside in AZ. My comfort comes by following the temperatures. From Yuma to sedona area, to flagstaff area to white mountains in the heat of summer then back down as the temps change. Daytime use of a 7000btu A/C can happen but not night time. If you try, your charge time will not catch up and you will be left with less power every day you do try.

So what part of AZ?

I'm in Prescott, so not terrible compared to Phoenix area. So the A/C isn't NECESSARY - But I appreciate all the feedback you all have given so far, I'm learning a bit.