2022 - Newmar Quality Call to Action

[MapNerd]

The question I always come back to is where is the cost savings for Newmar when they have to pay a dealer to do all the warranty/pre delivery repairs on a poorly built coach? Wouldn’t it be much more cost effective for them to have solid quality control during construction and a thorough inspection before the coach leaves the factory?

Only if enough consumers demand fixes for the issues. Most are not persistent and/or knowledgeable enough to battle the system. They just give up and either live with it or pay out of pocket. Newmar counts on that. It’s a bit of a philosophical question - if a Girard awning deploys while a coach is in transit but the owner never demands a fix, did the Girard ever deploy?

How about a "Dealer Quality Call to Action" to reject a product received and return it to the factory to get it right before delivery to the customer? Dealers will have far more power in getting Newmar to resolve Q/A issues than having customers fight them.

Strikes me as a fast way for a dealer to get in bad with Newmar pretty quickly and maybe get their allotment cut.

 

[redbaron]

Strikes me as a fast way for a dealer to get in bad with Newmar pretty quickly and maybe get their allotment cut.

Nailed it.

 

[turbopilot]

There is only one solution to this problem. Stop buying the product. If you have an order cancel it. It is the only real power any individual owner or would be owner can assert.

I had an interesting experience selling my 4 year old Newmar New Aire myself. There were several people who considered my coach who were long time, very experienced RV owners. I was amazed that several said they would only consider a recently used Class A, not because of price sensitivity but because they sought a Class A that was "finished" by the first owner. Obviously some have found a way to deal with the QC problems. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[redbaron]

@turbopilot , I understand your position about canceling new orders. I don't agree that it would work.

For every unit sold, there are 2 buyers waiting in line. The demand is very high, and the supply is very limited. This is going to be true for at least 18 months.

Newmar will never hear about the cancelation. The dealers will have the unit reassigned within hours.

The only way to get newmars attention is to increase warranty claims drastically. Newmar needs to feel the pain of their poor quality control so that the only resolution is to fix quality during production.

 

[turbopilot]

I have been thinking about this effort overnight. The whole thing is upside down as I see it. Newmar is primarily an aggregator/assembler of OEM sourced parts. Sure they make the walls/roof/floor and the craft all the woodworking in house but the majority of parts that fail are sourced from OEMs. Misadventure can happen during assembly which is clearly Newmar's fault particularly with their goofy undocumented "free wire" approach to electrical system assembly, but the big, expensive parts that fail come from OEMs. OEMs are having a terrible problem with the supply chain issues trying to source parts to build up product. I still have an airplane. OEM quality control is a big issue as these companies are source parts from all sorts of unreliable suppliers never used in the past.

Yes, paint, woodworking and assembly misadventures during the build is clearly the responsibility of Newmar but the QC problem reaches far beyond Newmar. It is not something that is going to be solved quickly by a customer hanging around the dealer or the factory until their punch list is complete. Many of the failures we are seeing are OEM "infant mortality" events, where an OEM part passes inspection but quickly fails in the field because alternate parts were sourced durning the supply chain crisis. Everything I said about Newmar applies to FreightLiner as well.

The bottom line is that this is a terrible time to buy an expensive, complicated machine whether it is a bus, coach or an airplane. It may leave the factory working but fail soon after being put into service because of poor QC by the OEMs sourcing untested alternate parts. And they you have a problem getting a replacement part because of the supply chain crisis.

 

[redbaron]

As clearly stated in my post, this is about 3 items only. Paint, wood, and flooring/tile.

I specifically chose these targets because they are core quality components that separate newmar from other brands.

These items can be quickly fixed by Newmar during production, or costly fixed after the fact.

These are easy to point out with facts and do not have any room for subjective reasoning.

Once newmar has satisfactory results with a cost saving qc effort, then the door is open to address the many other aspects of the build.

For this call to action, only the 3 areas specified are in scope.

This does not mean you shouldn't bring up other defects. All the normal rules of 1st year ownership shake downs apply. The problem is the other areas have received all the attention while the 3 core newmar unique build areas have slipped without a check and balance


This post is about those 3 areas specifically

 

[turbopilot]

As clearly stated in my post, this is about 3 items only. Paint, wood, and flooring/tile.

I specifically chose these targets because they are core quality components that separate newmar from other brands.

These items can be quickly fixed by Newmar during production, or costly fixed after the fact.

These are easy to point out with facts and do not have any room for subjective reasoning.

Once newmar has satisfactory results with a cost saving qc effort, then the door is open to address the many other aspects of the build.

For this call to action, only the 3 areas specified are in scope.

This does not mean you shouldn't bring up other defects. All the normal rules of 1st year ownership shake downs apply. The problem is the other areas have received all the attention while the 3 core newmar unique build areas have slipped without a check and balance


This post is about those 3 areas specifically

I missed the nuance. I thought you were just picking examples of the greater QC problems.

When comes to the cost and frustration of ownership of a complicated coach I have to be honest and say that issues of paint, wood and floors would be at the very bottom of my worry list. Not that those issues should not be addressed, but issues around those 3 areas will not in anyway interfere with any productive use of this expense asset. Who would cancel a trip because of bad paint?

 

[redbaron]

I missed the nuance. I thought you were just picking examples of the greater QC problems.

When comes to the cost and frustration of ownership of a complicated coach I have to be honest and say that issues of paint, wood and floors would be at the very bottom of my worry list. Not that those issues should not be addressed, but issues around those 3 areas will not in anyway interfere with any productive use of this expense asset. Who would cancel a trip because of bad paint?

I think you are missing the point. We are not talking about canceled trips. We are talking about quality control, and resale value. We are talking about the distinguishing characteristics of Newmar vs all the others.

Newmar has said "Every Inch Matters" when talking about their paint. Newmar has said that they have experienced craftsman applying their skill to superior wood quality. Newmar has revolutinized flooring in the luxury line with no carpet and lots of very expensive tile, back splash, and custom showers.

These are areas that Newmar has used to separate their brand from others. It is what makes the coach the desireable product we have all wanted.

I have continued to purcahse a Newmar coach, even with all the other glaring issues, because of the craftsmanship, and ultimately the resale value. I purchase every coach knowing I will keep it for only a few years before buying another new coach.

Newmar paint has always had problems, but never to the degree that it does now. I have been alone in my frustration over the paint, and have decided to awaken the consumers of newmar products, so that they will join me in demanding the quality of "Every Inch" of the paint job.

Newmar wood has never been anything but perfection until this last year. Now it is low quality production, that almost appears as though it was being outsourced.

I guarantee you these items will be very costly for newmar to fix, and will result in a new standard of QC that we have never seen before.

This is not the only battle to be fought over quality, but this is low hanging fruit that has no "If's / And's or But's" about it. this is something that is binary---either it is right, or it is wrong.

It is also very easy to explain to the consumer what is acceptable and what is not.

I am purposely not discussing the other issues in this thread because this is a laser focus that can have results within 60-90 days. Once this is successful, more will follow.

 

[Neal]

Correct me if wrong but I believe wood IS outsourced by another company in town? I'm not sure if it's always been that way or if in fact it is that way. So who is doing Newmar's woodwork and is that a change?

 

[redbaron]

Correct me if wrong but I believe wood IS outsourced by another company in town? I'm not sure if it's always been that way or if in fact it is that way. So who is doing Newmar's woodwork and is that a change?

I do not know that answer. Newmar shows video of their cabinet shop. I do not know if that means they do cabinet faces or just the base.

 

[turbopilot]

I think you are missing the point. We are not talking about canceled trips. We are talking about quality control, and resale value. We are talking about the distinguishing characteristics of Newmar vs all the others.

Ok, well mark me down when you are ready to tackle the really big problems of quality control in the Class A coaches. I am a missed trip kind of guy. Paint is interesting but when the wheels don't roll on a half million dollar/million dollar investment, I get really grumpy.

 

[J&JD]

I do not know that answer. Newmar shows video of their cabinet shop. I do not know if that means they do cabinet faces or just the base.

When we were there for warranty work , we saw the large cabinet shop on site. Unless there has been a recent change, Newmar does the cabinet work.
We took the tour, and wondered why they think it efficient to have different coaches coming down the line each day. It seems to me, that it would be more confusing for the workers. It seems that if you at least grouped the same coaches together a bit, less mistakes would be made. Judy D


unless things have changed

 

[MapNerd]

When we were there for warranty work , we saw the large cabinet shop on site. Unless there has been a recent change, Newmar does the cabinet work.
We took the tour, and wondered why they think it efficient to have different coaches coming down the line each day. It seems to me, that it would be more confusing for the workers. It seems that if you at least grouped the same coaches together a bit, less mistakes would be made. Judy D


unless things have changed

At least on my coach, Newmar only did the cabinet frames. All of the doors and drawer faces came from somewhere else. I know because I just had them all replaced and part of the wait was in the third party.

 

[J&JD]

Y

At least on my coach, Newmar only did the cabinet frames. All of the doors and drawer faces came from somewhere else. I know because I just had them all replaced and part of the wait was in the third party.

Interesting, that might be true. When we remodeled our kitchen, I found the best caninet maker in the area because I wanted specialized drawers and storage options, but the doors and drawer faces were out sourced. I guess that is the way it is done now. One would think they would do it themselves, since they are known for woodwork. Judy

 

[FLSteve]

At least on my coach, Newmar only did the cabinet frames. All of the doors and drawer faces came from somewhere else. I know because I just had them all replaced and part of the wait was in the third party.

About a year and a half ago I had some warranty work done at Nappanee and one of the wooden window valiances had to be replaced and I was told that Newmar had a local 3rd party woodworking shop that they contracted out to for a lot of the wood parts.

FLSteve

 

[Neal]

I do not know that answer. Newmar shows video of their cabinet shop. I do not know if that means they do cabinet faces or just the base.

Could be marketing, could be old the way it was once done. When I went driving around during the infinite boredom window of waiting on my coach I drove by the presumed wood supplier as they had a few Dutch Stars on site as well. All speculation as well as my speculation that as things grow, i.e. production increases, the way to get more labor/hands involved is outsourcing. Would also be pretty smart if it was another Miller owned business, build 3rd party dependencies (maybe the stuff you love doing) sell off the core and keep in business with your supporting facilities. My local grocery store chain did just that, sold off the business but continues to be the supplier of the bakery goods.

 

[Bjs]

In this post, I am going to show several examples of current production coaches being delivered to actual owners. I am intentionally not naming the dealers and or owners of the coach, as it is not my intent to get involved with a specific issue, but rather to discuss the overall quality of Newmar, and to make other new owners aware of poor construction. If you wish to name your coach, that is fine. Please do not name other people’s coaches. Also please refrain from naming the dealer, as the dealer is not responsible for the build and construction of the coach. This is a Newmar Corporate issue, and we need to all work together to get Newmar to listen to its owners.

It is time that we hold Newmar accountable for poor quality. If you have recently purchased a Newmar coach, or have one that is under the factory one year warranty -- you need to stand up and be heard.

Now is the time.

Please read my blog post on this subject located here:

2022 – Newmar Quality Call to Action

I am writing this post regarding the quality of Newmar coaches, and how the lack of quality control is currently affecting production. In this post, I am going to show several examples of current p…

newmarhoots.com

Is it your belief that a used 2018 Newmar 4037 with 41000 miles would be a smarter purchase than a new 2022 same model?
Thank you.
Brian

 

[redbaron]

Is it your belief that a used 2018 Newmar 4037 with 41000 miles would be a smarter purchase than a new 2022 same model?
Thank you.
Brian

It would be faster.

My 2022 LADP is in better condition than my 2019 dsdp was. Newmar appears to have taken some of the points seriously, and is standing behind the quality with their warranty repairs and authorizations.

A new coach is always going to be more work getting it finished and broken in. If you can find a 2018 that meets your criteria, it's a great year with very few major problems reported.

 

[Bjs]

It would be faster.

My 2022 LADP is in better condition than my 2019 dsdp was. Newmar appears to have taken some of the points seriously, and is standing behind the quality with their warranty repairs and authorizations.

A new coach is always going to be more work getting it finished and broken in. If you can find a 2018 that meets your criteria, it's a great year with very few major problems reported.

Thank you for the advice, both are currently available, so no wait either way. The new one has the Gerard awnings, but after reading about the issues on the forum with those not being properly attached I’m not sure they are “better “.
Used one is $100k cheaper as well.
Brian

 

[lostinfla]

I have a friend who had a '16 Dutch Star and loved it. He traded it for a new '19 DS and has been miserable ever since repairing things that should have been "finished" at the factory. As a side question, why are so many here trading for new coaches? Certainly the "old" coach isn't worn out. Is it just to have "the latest and greatest"? (which doesn't seem to be working out.) I'll stick with our little DS as we love it and it just works.