Battery Help!

[Chuggs]

To House Power from battery + terminal. Great question.

I can't be sure but have a couple of places to look.

The basement bay with power cord for shore power. In mine, if I look behind the cord reel there is a plastic panel which is velcroed to aluminum angle. If I peel the panel off...it lets you see the "House Disconnect" relay. That relay is controlled by a switch inside the coach. It is a latching relay --- meaning, when it moves from open to closed or vice versa...it requires no electrical power to stay in the commanded position. On one side of the relay...the "To House Power" cable is attached...along with other cables. These are considered "continuous battery powered". Those items stay powered from the batteries regardless of the relay position. The opposite side of the relay is considered "disconnect battery powered". The items on that side all go cold when you hit the switch to the "Store" position. You may have heard it by it's nickname..."The Salesman Switch". It is a quick way for someone to remove dc power from lights, water pumps, etc...in a hurry. There is a lot going on here. You will see one side powering a fuse panel, and the other side powering a second fuse panel. One continuously powered...the other controlled by the switch. There will also be some self-reseting breakers...different ones go to different sides of the relay. Two of the larger circuits here...power a fuse panel inside...mine is in the half-bath cabinet next to the AC load distribution panel. There are a bunch of dc fuses here supplying different circuits.

You may also see another relay...don't know which you have...they do a similar thing...linking the bi-directional cables (house & chassis) together. Newmar has used models from Precision Circuits, and others from Intellitec. They are using a solid state relay design now. You may hear them referred to as BIRD or BIM depending on the make.

Here's a view of mine.

If you have a helper...listen to bays, while you hit the boost switch, I've been told they can locate this stuff when the relay makes a clicking noise. I'm sure my ears aren't that good anymore. Newmar was nice enough to place a legend on th back of my plastic panel, detailing which fuse goes to what. Find these things, and you're delving in deep to the DC electrical system for the House.

 

[Chuggs]

Oh...and it looks like the battery cable schematic you have there suggest only one cable going to power both the "House Power" and "Isolator"...so they've linked these items on a single cable run from the battery...the House disconnect relay and the BIM/BIRD...

Note...some of the bi-directional/Isolator/BIRD/BIM or whatever the latest term is... are two component...a little black box, and a solenoid looking relay. The box does the thinking and activates the relay. On mine...the components are built-in to a single device.

 

[DHudson]

Oh...and it looks like the battery cable schematic you have there suggest only one cable going to power both the "House Power" and "Isolator"...so they've linked these items on a single cable run from the battery...the House disconnect relay and the BIM/BIRD...

Note...some of the bi-directional/Isolator/BIRD/BIM or whatever the latest term is... are two component...a little black box, and a solenoid looking relay. The box does the thinking and activates the relay. On mine...the components are built-in to a single device.

Thank you for the schematics.
I went to home depot and bought some different colors or electrical tap.

1st I am going to mark Chassis Batteries -
Red = +
Black = -
Red / yellow for the chassis power feed.
Also each will have another band of red to signify for chassis.

Then Mark all the house grounds white white
If it is series, it will have 1 end red the out white.
House positive will be white with another color depending where it goes.
The other end will have the came band color

Then make a schematic what goes where.

Of course it was in the low 40's, 20 mph north winds, and raining today.
So no play time today.

 

[Chuggs]

Sounds like that Master Tech is coming out ?!
The thing is...the extra time spent now saves you time in the future.

I’m detail oriented like that too.

 

[RKins]

If you're looking for a Bi-Directional Isolator Relay Delayed (Used up to 2009 and then BIM was used and then they switched back??? plus added Silverleaf & White-Rodgers solenoid (aka Big Boy Relay) somewhere in there too) here is a pic of my power bay.
Anyway, I have a Spartan chassis not FMC like you, but yours is older than 2010 so it should have a BIRD system. Orienting you - to the right is the same House disconnect relay that Chuggs showed you. On the right of that relay the + (heavy black cable) from "House" bank cable runs and then connects to the upper lug on the White-Rodgers solenoid. On the bottom lug of the White-Rodgers solenoid you see another heavy cable - this is the + from the Chassis bank (starting bank). Below the White-Rodgers solenoid is a black plastic device - the BIRD. The BIRD monitors the voltage from the House bank and if it goes above 13.3V for a minute, the BIRD sends a signal (12V and then drops to 3.4V) to activate the White-Rodgers solenoid. This shorts both banks together so they both get charged.

Hope this helps.

 

[Chuggs]

@RKins Great add... That shows the other type commonly found perfectly! Thank You!

 

[DHudson]

FINALLY got a break in the wind and rain. Still in low 40's, and that is cold in central Texas! Anyway, had about a hour of light left when I got home. Found the cables that go to the 2 solenoids where the converter / inverter (I am still confused on that) is. 1 cable goes to 1 side of one and the other cable goes to the other side of the other. There is a common cable joining b the 2.
Do "both" of those cables
go to the "house" batteries? Or 1 house and 1 start battery.
The cables with the "blue" and "yellow" tape are the ones I am talking about.

Next question.
The cable that runs to the generator. Does it hook to the house batteries or starting batteries.

At least I know what cable goes where now. Just have to be sure they are connected to the correct batteries and make a schematic.

THANK YOU for the help!

 

[Chuggs]

The relay top right is the House Disconnect relay...the Blue taped cable coming IN i from the House batteries. It is then daisy chained to the bi-directional relay...House Side. The Yellow taped cable is the Chassis Battery cable. There is a control box with inputs...that decides when to close the bidirectional relay. It does it to share the opposite banks charging system...and will close when you decide to press the BOOST switch to help Jump a weak battery.

The IOTA device you posted is a Converter. Converters take 120vac in and output 12vdc. If you have the optional device that connects to it...it makes it a smart charger, with Bulk, Absorb, Float, and Equalization phases.

An Inverter, is a device that does basically the opposite. It takes 12vdc and Inverts it into 120vac. This allows you to run household devices when off grid, and running only on Batteries/Solar. Thy come in different wave forms. Modified Sine Wave, Pure Sine Wave. The later doing better at certain motors and sensitive electronic systems.

 

[RKins]

Chuggs has it right on the cables - I can't help on the generator cabling. My buddy has a '99 Dutchstar and he didn't have an inverter either. I think he added one. I am helping another guy with a '98 Dutchstar and his has 2 750W inverters in his power bay. Seems like each Dutchstar year was built a little differently.
Anyway, you have the same BIRD configuration I was talking about, controlled by the black BIRD on the bottom left. The circuit breakers to the right are all resettable, so I would check to make sure all the "buttons" are "in" on them (check top and bottom of the CB for the buttons). Later, if you have something that quits working, remember this is another place to check. Take pics of the labels below each, they like to eventually fall off.

 

[Chuggs]

You got me on the Generator question. Knock on wood.. I've not come across a definitive answer...I haven't really wondered much about it until now.

Do you have a digilevel panel? The one that displays HOUSE and CHASSIS voltage, along with Tank Levels? I'm gonna try this...from my ME remote, I'm going to trigger a Generator start, while I watch those two voltages. The one that dips is starting the generator. I'm laying odds that it's the chassis...but I would be lying if I told you that without confirming it somehow.

We'll see...