Can I tow it?

[ConfusedChicken]

Wife and I have a down payment on a 23 Mini Lite 2205s. Weight is 5200, payload 600.
We drive a 15 expedition that has capacity of 9200, but payload of only 1400. Weight of us, dogs, crates, tongue, batteries, and gas is just over 1600.
Dealer of course says we are good.
Spoke to 2 hitch companies: one says payload sticker 10-20% low and we are good. Other says talk to Ford (who referred us to them).
Spoke to hitch manufacturer (Blue Ox) who stated that even with their best hitch it does not affect what your vehicle can CARRY but what it can TOW. This was my concern. The tv sales guy seems great, and I know they technically can’t sell an unsafe setup. But now what?

 

[AbdRahim]

I easily towed a 5582 lb trailer with an Expedition, but I was the only passenger. Make sure you get a weight distribution hitch, with anti sway bars. You will also need a trailer brake controller inside the SUV.

Don’t know about internal weight

 

[TheLightGuy]

Weight Distribution and Anti-Sway hitch
Electronic Brake Controller

that big truck will pull that no problem! we're pulling a 32' with a '17 Suburban. Trailer weighs 5950 dry.

 

[Knobs]

Wife and I have a down payment on a 23 Mini Lite 2205s. Weight is 5200, payload 600.
We drive a 15 expedition that has capacity of 9200, but payload of only 1400. Weight of us, dogs, crates, tongue, batteries, and gas is just over 1600.
Dealer of course says we are good.
Spoke to 2 hitch companies: one says payload sticker 10-20% low and we are good. Other says talk to Ford (who referred us to them).
Spoke to hitch manufacturer (Blue Ox) who stated that even with their best hitch it does not affect what your vehicle can CARRY but what it can TOW. This was my concern. The tv sales guy seems great, and I know they technically can’t sell an unsafe setup. But now what?

USA manufacturers generally include a full tank of gas in the curb weight. This means it does not count against payload.

But, the weight of all passengers, dogs, gear, etc. does count, as does the tongue weight of the trailer.

I suspect payload in the Expedition will be your limiting factor, not the tow rating.

The specs (stickers on the door, owner's manual, etc.) tell you what is a safe setup. A salesman can tell you anything.

 

[Rosy]

Good on you for weighing. From the numbers you gave, technically you're 200 lbs over your payload capacity. Can you shed 200 lbs worth of stuff or load the trailer differently to lower the tongue weight by 200 lbs (while keeping it 10-15% of the trailer weight)?

 

[ConfusedChicken]

That is with absolutely nothing in the car except us, the 4 dogs, and their crates. I could take the batteries off and put in trailer storage saving about 150 on the tongue. And 20g propane instead of 30, save another 20lb.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

Sounds like the dogs might have to stay home or find their own ride? Batteries placed somewhere close to or behind the trailer axle would certainly help. You could also pull the propane tank(s) and place them at or behind the TT axle, enclosed spaces are supposed to have no more than 2 tanks or 80lbs total of propane (can't remember the exact legal requirements). It would make for more work when setting up but kids can be hlepful, I'm shopping now and hoping my kids will be too as I don't want to buy a TT only to find it was a mistake due to lack of interest.

Whatever you do, make sure you have adequate tongue weight for the trailer to track true and not get all weeble wobbly on you, that's never any fun.

 

[ConfusedChicken]

Lol we are actually getting the trailer FOR the dogs. We travel to dockdiving events all around the country and hotel costs and dog fees have skyrocketed in the last year. Moving the batteries and propane would save over 200 lbs on the tongue, and we’d be back below payload. like you said a pain but ya gotta do what ya gotta do .

 

[Knobs]

That is with absolutely nothing in the car except us, the 4 dogs, and their crates. I could take the batteries off and put in trailer storage saving about 150 on the tongue. And 20g propane instead of 30, save another 20lb.

As I posted above, if you are counting the fuel in the vehicle gas tank as payload, don't. That's included in the manufacturer-specified curb weight. That'll free-up 140-150 lbs in your calculations, depending on how large your gas tank is.

 

[Knobs]

This is my advice / opinion. Use what you find useful.

Towing guides from Ford or other sources are starting points, but are not to be relied on in the specific (that is, for your SUV). And, you CERTAINLY don't want to rely on any salesman, Ford or RV.

What you rely on in the specific are the stickers on the door jambs, etc., in your specific vehicle and trailer.

Key specs (from my GM stickers):
GVWR
GCWR
Curb Weight
Max Payload
SAE J2807 Trailer Weight Rating (TWR for vehicle configuration)

Conventional TWR​

Max tongue weight​

Tire and Loading Information

The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed (should be the same as Max Payload on the other sticker)​

​

From the stickers on your travel trailer, GVWR and use 10-12% of that for the tongue weight (alternatively, weigh your trailer when loaded). The UVW (empty weight) and specified tongue weight when empty are not useful except as starting points for adding your own cargo.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

This subject has been beat to death in the archives. BUT!!!
The bottom line is.
You need 10% minimum of trailer weight on the hitch (Not negotiable).

Equalizer hitch artificially moves weight over the front wheels (this is hard on the trailer frame), so keep that in mind when on rough surfaces.

I posted because it is OK to shift weight in the trailer as long as you keep in mind the 10% rule above.

One more point that should be made! 10% over weight is egnored. However more than that in case of an accident will likely place you as the responsible party, no matter what caused the accident.

 

[Bob K4TAX]

Why is it that folks seem so darn emphatic about the trailer DRY WEIGHT? I know, they just want to convince themselves, incorrectly so, that the minimum tow vehicle can tow it.

Once batteries, hitch, water, food, clothes, and camping stuff are added to the trailer, one is NEVER at or near DRY WEIGHT.

If you don't believe what I say or write, load the trailer to go camping, load the tow vehicle to go camping, and then pull the rig to the nearest CAT scale. Have them weigh it. You'll like be very surprised at what you are dragging around. It is nowhere near DRY WEIGHT.

For safety reasons, those of you and your family, your tow vehicle, your trailer, and others, always use the Gross Weight of the trailer for calculations.

Bob

 

[Bigblockyeti]

Some of these trailers have huge payload relative to their dry weight, a few I've looked at weighed under 4300lb dry and had a GVWR of 6500lb. This is why dry weight is important to me. I'm under no false impression that filling the kitchen with wares, the bath with soap & TP, the fridge with food & the cabinets with appliances, games and towels that it won't be at least another 500-600lb but that still puts it well below my 6100lb limit and moreso under the GVWR. To ignore the dry weight at < 2/3 the GVWR to me makes no sense.

 

[dennybuck]

Wife and I have a down payment on a 23 Mini Lite 2205s. Weight is 5200, payload 600.
We drive a 15 expedition that has capacity of 9200, but payload of only 1400. Weight of us, dogs, crates, tongue, batteries, and gas is just over 1600.
Dealer of course says we are good.
Spoke to 2 hitch companies: one says payload sticker 10-20% low and we are good. Other says talk to Ford (who referred us to them).
Spoke to hitch manufacturer (Blue Ox) who stated that even with their best hitch it does not affect what your vehicle can CARRY but what it can TOW. This was my concern. The tv sales guy seems great, and I know they technically can’t sell an unsafe setup. But now what?

I had same question on my Ford Explorer, I called the Ford Dealer and they were very helpful, they even took time and called me back after they researched it, FYI all Ford dealers are not the same in customer service!

 

[ConfusedChicken]

I had same question on my Ford Explorer, I called the Ford Dealer and they were very helpful, they even took time and called me back after they researched it, FYI all Ford dealers are not the same in customer service!

What did Ford say? The dealer I was at had no idea what payload is

 

[Bob K4TAX]

I did likewise and stopped by my Chevrolet dealer. The Service Manager used the VIN number to look up the specifics of my truck. All the numbers are there. It is nice to have the "real numbers" and not what someone thinks or said.

Bob

 

[dennybuck]

USA manufacturers generally include a full tank of gas in the curb weight. This means it does not count against payload.

But, the weight of all passengers, dogs, gear, etc. does count, as does the tongue weight of the trailer.

I suspect payload in the Expedition will be your limiting factor, not the tow rating.

The specs (stickers on the door, owner's manual, etc.) tell you what is a safe setup. A salesman can tell you anything.

What did Ford say? The dealer I was at had no idea what payload is

Try this

https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/owner-resources/towing-information/ford-online-towing-calculator-frequently-asked-questions/

 

[Bigblockyeti]

It's my understanding the NHTSA mandates all vehicles sold to be used on public roads in the USA have to identify payload with a full tank of fuel and anything else the vehicle was ordered with, down to a cigarette cup for smokers, floor mats, even a tiny wiring harness to be able to hook up a brake controller. The vehicle is weighed before it exits the plant and a sticker is generated then stuck inside the driver's door jam. A specific vehicle will all have the same GVWR unless it happens to have a higher payload capacity as an option, so all those vehicles will have the GVWR minum the actual weight equalling the payload.

 

[Bob K4TAX]

Some of these trailers have huge payload relative to their dry weight, a few I've looked at weighed under 4300lb dry and had a GVWR of 6500lb. This is why dry weight is important to me. I'm under no false impression that filling the kitchen with wares, the bath with soap & TP, the fridge with food & the cabinets with appliances, games and towels that it won't be at least another 500-600lb but that still puts it well below my 6100lb limit and moreso under the GVWR. To ignore the dry weight at < 2/3 the GVWR to me makes no sense.

Agreed, but add a couple of batteries (+150 lbs) add 2 propane tanks (+80 lbs) add 40 gal water (+300 lbs), and you'll be surprised how fast the numbers over DRY WEIGHT increase.

I know what the dry weight number is on our trailer. I know what the Gross weight is on our trailer. Plus I know what the cargo weight is on our trailer. And I put it on a CAT scale and was surprised at how close to Gross Weight we were loaded.

If one has ever loaded their RV to go camping but never put it on a CAT scale in that configuration, one is "simply throwing darts at numbers in the dark".

Bob