Can Newmar ever return to the quality of the Miller era?

[Underboss]

I don't know too many "custom" home builders that build kitchen cabinet boxes in house. Most all specify, order from a supplier (I got mine from "Plain and Fancy in Amish country PA"), and assemble on site. I too didn't have shapers (specifically the ones to match rest of cabinets that were undamaged or fixable) and the price to buy was WAY cheaper.

First off I was not your usual custom builder. I built and also remodeled. My clients varied from every day folks, actors, to the Treasurer for a Fortune 500 oil company.
Well, when you deal with cabinet shops that promise delivery after giving them three to six months lead time and they fail, you start your own shop. We build custom to the home. We did not build separate boxes. We built in sections, that we could transport. Onsite we doweled to join. Once we installed in your home the installation was seamless. Never needed any scribe moldings. No outside high volume cabinet manufacturer did that. Mid to high end was my market already so I could not order "boxes" for my educated customers.
I already had the facilities. I never bought "budget" tools so start up was as easy as hiring my first employee. There were 2 local cabinet parts suppliers (hinges, drawer slides, glues, bandings etc). There were a few suppliers of any type of hardwood veneered plywood I needed. For face frames I had an online supplier that sold in bundles of various widths. Then setting up an account with a door company that built to spec. was easy and they delivered twice a week. FYI a shaper is for building cabinet door frames not the boxes.
I designed the kitchen, dimensioned everything, my employee built to design. Heck I was designing the kitchens already anyway. Once installed I had a incredible shop I used for finishing.
The cabinet shop grew and we built cabinets for a few contractors that were friends. We never listed it or advertised it as I did not want to grow it beyond what I had.
The profit margin was incredible. I could build cheaper then buying a midrange HD cabinet and they were built better.

Back to topic at hand. I am clueless as to where one gets that Newmars cabinet quality has declined. Is it just an attempt to pile on? Its an outright lie, not sure if one meant to lie or mislead but its sad that this forum starting with the admin, has turned this into an endless attack on Newmar

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

Underboss, I'm curious what year and model Newmar do you have?

 

[the_fu]

One of the missing elements now in the Newmar brand is product management. That is, someone immersing themselves in the product, its customer, the customer culture, asking and relishing customer feedback, and then using that to improve a product toward better quality and a benefit and feature set that meets or even delights its customers. When you are small, closer to the origin story, and have those things your products excel and so does your brand. Once you sell off your baby to either PE or to another brand, those things almost always are diluted and fade away - and/or the sold off company takes on the brand identities of the purchasing entity.

This is the essence of what has happened with many brands rolled up into <<insert RV company here>> after acquisition. Anyone remember Safari?

Doubt me, just look at the removal of opening windows on the New Aire, making a kitchen sink round, simplifying cabinetry and trim, and many other changes post acquisition. Who thinks they polled and listened carefully to existing or prospective customers before making those switches? Considering the following year putting back the option of opening windows shows they did not.

The one thing Newmar has in their favor, at least for now, is they still retain many key features and qualities, not seen in other coaches in their same class - but that is simply due to brand attrition in this segment - which we are about to see happen again during this downturn - more consolidation.

The crazy part is that those with 2019-2021 coaches may have a gem on their hands that will not depreciate as hard as other brands especially when WB decide to cut some or all of the coaches in the Newmar line up from production.

 

[Underboss]

Underboss, I'm curious what year and model Newmar do you have?

Just sold my 21 Ventana 4369. Have a new one on order. Only issue was two small spots where the clear shrank. Otherwise absolutely perfect. Oh and it was built 1/21 and purchased 3/21. So much for the quality or covid coach bs.
I find it that the few biggest complainers about Newmar quality of late have 2017 and older coaches. So, how could someone claim something with absolutely ZERO experience? What, because one poster went from Newmar to a Entegra? LMAO lets see how many complaints there are about Entegra.
Cabinet fit and finish, inferior, Foundation structure, inferior.
Again, the bashing is 99% coming from folks with older coaches. Why is that? Trying to justify not to buy a new one? or like the kid standing outside the window of the toy store, yearning? You have zero experience, you are just bloviating.
You can take my last lines however you want. I do not rag on older coaches like you rag on the new ones. All year coaches have had issues. Its the nature of the industry. I had more issues with, by your standards, the better years for RVs, 2005 Monaco DP

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

I just asked a simple question. I didn't expect a bashing.

 

[Underboss]

I just asked a simple question. I didn't expect a bashing.

I come here not expecting a bashing either. But Newmar owners get it from the Admin, who owns a 2017 and down. How does it feel?

 

[Chargerman]

Yes they do drive the units down the street to the paint shop. If you’re ever near the factory you’ll see grey coaches headed down the road quite often.
A lot of folks refer to the Winnebago purchase as a marking point to Newmars declining quality. I personally don’t think that is the reason. Winnebago also purchased Chris Craft and Pursuit boats a few years ago. They are both highly respected brands with a reputation of very good quality. Since their purchase of those brands they have remained very highly rated and desired. Winnebago has for the most part let them run how they ran previously and I think the same holds true for Newmar. I think the issue Newmar has faced over the previous couple years has a lot to do with unprecedented growth in sales volume that they just could not keep up with while maintaining the quality that they were known for. At the same time the needs of customer support and service also went through the roof which they just could not staff properly. All manufacturers in the industry were faced with this same issue on different levels. At this point Newmar should be performing at least at the level of the Miller era and any performance metric that is less than that falls directly on the current Newmar management team. If that is not so, which it sounds like it clearly is not, than that’s where Winnebago needs to step in and make the necessary changes to assure future success and longevity for the brand

 

[Rich W.]

I think these conversations are quite worthwhile as they evoke critical thinking, which is necessary whether purchasing or maintaining a DP, and for the most part they are held without acrimony. But I have to agree that when they devolve to vexation and even apparent anger, they loose some of their appeal.

 

[J&JD]

I come here not expecting a bashing either. But Newmar owners get it from the Admin, who owns a 2017 and down. How does it feel?

See post #5 please.

Can Newmar ever return to the quality of the Miller era?

As I was driving to pick up my dogter from camp I was thinking...can Newmar ever return to the quality of the Miller era? I'm guessing with my 2017 I was on the tail end of the family owned operation where woodwork was a market worthy item, now it's outsourced. Paint was the talk of the town...

rvforums.com

 

[Sand-dog]

Just sold my 21 Ventana 4369. Have a new one on order. Only issue was two small spots where the clear shrank. Otherwise absolutely perfect. Oh and it was built 1/21 and purchased 3/21. So much for the quality or covid coach bs.
I find it that the few biggest complainers about Newmar quality of late have 2017 and older coaches. So, how could someone claim something with absolutely ZERO experience? What, because one poster went from Newmar to a Entegra? LMAO lets see how many complaints there are about Entegra.
Cabinet fit and finish, inferior, Foundation structure, inferior.
Again, the bashing is 99% coming from folks with older coaches. Why is that? Trying to justify not to buy a new one? or like the kid standing outside the window of the toy store, yearning? You have zero experience, you are just bloviating.
You can take my last lines however you want. I do not rag on older coaches like you rag on the new ones. All year coaches have had issues. Its the nature of the industry. I had more issues with, by your standards, the better years for RVs, 2005 Monaco DP

Well said agree with your last comment (all coaches of issues). Welcome to RVing.

 

[Underboss]

I think these conversations are quite worthwhile as they evoke critical thinking, which is necessary whether purchasing or maintaining a DP, and for the most part they are held without acrimony. But I have to agree that when the devolve to vexation and even apparent anger, they loose some of their appeal.

Critical thinking and factual discussion go hand in hand. Pulling complaints out of one's ah is another. When the same few keep slamming the same brand, without owning or direct knowledge of the current models, its no longer a factual conversation and cannot bring along critical thinking.
I find that I have learned alot from this conversation. Number one was not to renew my support for this forum and two was to toss the coffee mug and stickers in the garbage. Both done today!

 

[AbdRahim]

Hang on just a second, who the heck is Cloud Hopper? That is close to copyright infringement!

Actually cloudhopper sounds very cool, Just sayin’.

 

[LMHS]

To start with, I do not have a Newmar. I ended up on this website because, at one time, I was looking at Newmars. I've looked at many websites. I see a lot of complaints. I'm not talking about minor repairs. I'm talking about "the slide fell off the RV while driving" type of complaints. At the time, I was looking at a fairly wide range of RVs. I was mostly looking for a floor plan that I could live with (without feeling the need to make major changes). I have since discovered that there is no such thing as a ready made RV that I would be completely happy with.

Regarding quality...
To start with, I feel any business, no matter what product they produce or service that they provide, will eventually get too big to provide really good customer service. At some point the "acceptable" number of dissatisfied customers will increase without significantly impacting the Bottom Line. If all you can see is the Bottom Line, then the "acceptable" number of dissatisfied customers can get very high.

I could say a lot of this subject. But I'm not. I get hung up on the RV Park owners basically saying that all RVs are junk after they hit 10yo. And the manufacturers are doing nothing about that marketing concept. If anything, they are trying to fulfill that concept. My goal is to buy a used toyhauler (of the right size and basic layout) and rebuild it myself to suit my needs and wants. This is the only way I have come across to get an RV that is built to my standards. I could choose the best components for my needs. And I know that there are many, many people in the "RVing World" who are incapable of tacking a piece of trim molding back in place (necessitating a 6 month wait at the dealership for "warranty work" on a brand new trailer or motorhome). My method wouldn't work for them, unless they are willing to learn some new skills. But it is what it is. Everything is a compromise.

 

[Chargerman]

I find that I have learned alot from this conversation. Number one was not to renew my support for this forum and two was to toss the coffee mug and stickers in the garbage. Both done today!

Then why do you continue to post. If you’re not happy move on. Bye bye.

 

[Stuart W]

Actually cloudhopper sounds very cool, Just sayin’.

Cloud hopper snatch the pebble from my hand………..

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

Alright already. Keep it up and my people will be getting in touch with my attorney to get in touch with your attornies so they can get in touch with your people so ya'll will know you've done done it. And that may or may not be a run-on sentence.

Cloud hopper snatch the pebble from my hand………..

 

[Underboss]

I find that I have learned alot from this conversation. Number one was not to renew my support for this forum and two was to toss the coffee mug and stickers in the garbage. Both done today!

Then why do you continue to post. If you’re not happy move on. Bye bye.

Because I paid. Got a problem with that? Send me my money back and I will delete my profile and be gone. Did you ever notice, its always the same posters? This place turns many off. You basically have a hand full of posters, like you that hang on. Me, I am going to get my money's worth.

 

[Neemer]

FFS

 

[DavidL]

FFS

What's FFS mean? FWS = full Wall Slide...Anything like that?

 

[Jim]

I find that I have learned alot from this conversation. Number one was not to renew my support for this forum and two was to toss the coffee mug and stickers in the garbage. Both done today!

Well damn buddy, that's a pretty nasty remark. Feel better now?