Can Newmar ever return to the quality of the Miller era?

[Neemer]

What's FFS mean? FWS = full Wall Slide...Anything like that?

We’ll go with that.

 

[Jabber Jaw]

Neal, you mentioned the 7/day builds, does anyone know what the build rate was in 2021, 2022, and 2023?

To answer your question, I don't see any way the Newmars manufactured under the WGO banner will ever be equal to or better than the Miller Newmars. Look at Tiffin since the Thor buyout vs when it was a family-owned business. One difference, however, Bob Tiffin is still active in the daily business of Tiffin. I have some friends who were in Red Bay last week and had a sit down with Bob. I understand he was as gracious and customer-oriented as ever.

When I did the "Factory Tour" in 2019.....there to pick up my new "2020" Canyon Star, the build rate was stated to be "9" units per day! For sure, they were not letting any grass grow under their feet! This was the week of October 10th, 2019.
My coach came off line on Winnebago/Newmar's "announcement day", of Monday September 15th.
So, for sure I got a "NEWMAR", which is of excellent quality, and minimal problems!
My thoughts are that, Yes, quality dropped during Covid, but due to many, many factors, supply issues, labor issues, & other issues, kind of out of Newmar's control!
Can the quality be restored? YES!
Can accountability be restored? YES! But Casey Tubman has got to push the issue, & may be hampered by "WGO" chief's!
And PRICE's have got to be better controlled, as they spiraling out of control, and every increase eliminates a potential market segment!
One "ol man's" opinion!!

 

[Neal]

I think this economic situation is what the doctor ordered. SLOW DOWN. This is going to be the opposite of what Casey accomplished at Whirlpool which I believe was getting a unit off the line every 7 seconds from his Hoots talk. The slow down in production will allow an improvement in quality - we hope. How they handle the astronomical pricing will be interesting to watch but I doubt we'll know as those corrections will be in deals that buyers don't seem to want to share even though not under NDA. As I said on this forum long ago, buyers can help other buyers by sharing your deals pressuring dealers to offer you the same or better. Help each other.

 

[Stuart W]

I think this economic situation is what the doctor ordered. SLOW DOWN. This is going to be the opposite of what Casey accomplished at Whirlpool which I believe was getting a unit off the line every 7 seconds from his Hoots talk. The slow down in production will allow an improvement in quality - we hope. How they handle the astronomical pricing will be interesting to watch but I doubt we'll know as those corrections will be in deals that buyers don't seem to want to share even though not under NDA. As I said on this forum long ago, buyers can help other buyers by sharing your deals pressuring dealers to offer you the same or better. Help each other.

Neal I believe you are correct on the slowdown helping build quality, IF the manufacturers are able to keep there best people and are willing to carry them even if production dips lower. In Brett’s video he talks about not knowing how manufacturers will be able to cut staff enough to keep up with the dip in production and stay open.

The trouble with pricing especially for more educated buyers is the margins are pretty thin when discounts approach 30% off, some brands have a little more to play with

Edit this statement applies to higher end class A and Super C coaches, I believe the margins are higher on fifth wheels and pull alongs.

In this downturn it would probably take two things to help
1) manufacturers rebates and incentives to dealers to sell below their cost
2) dealers to sell below the incentives to get un-buried from their old stock
It is important to consider that until dealers become unburdened with old inventory they are not likely to place orders for new units, orders for new units is the only thing that will help manufacturers weather this storm

For the most part what I’m seeing is dealers trying to recover at their cost, probably hoping for financing and accessories to make a profit.

I don’t get paid by and have no affiliation with NIRVC other than being a customer. What I have seen is they sell both new and used coaches at a very modest margin in comparison to a lot of other dealers.

 

[Neal]

Thanks for the reminder @Stuart W. I still need to watch Brett's latest video.

 

[MarkMaxPayne]

When dealers are still sitting on 2022 and 2023 models in their inventories the demand on the manufacturers is pretty thin and will remain that way. I expect more consolidation of dealers and manufacturers before the dust settles.

As for quality, the problem is we keep buying rigs, knowing there will be these issues for the first year or so. We know that many have incorrect plumbing. Yet we continue to buy them anyways. We've trained the manufacturers it is okay to do what they do. I don't mean to be a defeatist, but I can only look in a mirror as I go through the first year of expected warranty issues and DIY repairs. I have accepted it for what it is.

Best,
--Mark

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

Thanks for the reminder @Stuart W. I still need to watch Brett's latest video.

It is very informative. I watched it a few weeks ago and then rewatched it this weekend.

 

[Stuart W]

Another thing that needs to happen in my opinion is a reduction of the amount of models that some manufacturers have. This forces dealers to have more units on their lots = more flooring costs in this down market

 

[GUS2000]

Another thing that needs to happen in my opinion is a reduction of the amount of models that some manufacturers have. This forces dealers to have more units on their lots = more flooring costs in this down market

I think the problem you run into is dealers that want to only do special orders and not inventory units.. i can mention names of those dealers, but i dont wanna get bashed for calling them out.. LOL..

the other main issue is warranty costs, the due diligence at the factory should be as good as the PDI at the Service Center for a FPU in my opinion..

 

[AbdRahim]

I wonder if employees on the production line could be shifted to repairs, rather than being laid off, when production is slowed. Perhaps this would reduce the wait to get into the Service Center. There are a number of campgrounds within 1/2 hour of the service center. Perhaps Newmar could mobilize personnel to nearby campgrounds for repairs that could be done outside of the Servvice Center.

Btw none of my comments are meant to bash Newmar. I genuinely am looking for ideas that can help Newmar to be even better. I promote Newmar on a regular basis and hope they can remain a top quality company.

 

[Neal]

Concur, I think the gist of this post is we all love Newmar and its roots, the amazing people, and want to see it succeed. We want to stay within the brand. Let's hope for good things ahead and weather this storm which hopefully will clear in the new year.

 

[ARD]

This place turns many off. You basically have a hand full of posters

As this forum continues to grow with new members and contributions, its diversity will increase. At present, several regular contributors offer assistance and support to foster site development. While we value your feedback, a touch of kindness in comments would be appreciated.

To improve the site, what aspects do you believe might deter users? We highly value your insights.

Thanks.

Renee

 

[Stuart W]

As this forum continues to grow with new members and contributions, its diversity will increase. At present, several regular contributors offer assistance and support to foster site development. While we value your feedback, a touch of kindness in comments would be appreciated.

To improve the site, what aspects do you believe might deter users? We highly value your insights.

Thanks.

Renee

--everyone is entitled to their own unique opinion, all members should respect this without taking these unique opinions as a point of confrontation. While it’s ok not to agree and calmly give your opinion, the derogatory/ belittling comments do not belong here.


An example: I think Entegra builds a poor quality Rv.
You can agree with me or not, you may even have information to share for or against my statement. This is perfectly ok if done in a respectful manner.

 

[GUS2000]

I, along with most of us, enjoy the fact that we are all in this lifestyle/hobby/pasttime/etc together and can learn from each other. Life is too short so we need to enjoy the time we have to fill in that "dash" that will be on our headstone with as many memories as we can!! We all want the same thing.. as little stress and as much time as we utilize to enjoy ourselves, each other and this incredible world we live in..

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

To improve the site, what aspects do you believe might deter users? We highly value your insights.

Underboss, to add to Renee's request, what aspects could be added to gain more members? The more members the more differing opinions and the more helpful knowledge can be shared. There isn't any reason we cannot have friendly differences and merely agree to disagree.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

I've been a casual observer as I'm still shopping and one thing remains as always clear, folks tend to say nothing when things are working and scream when they fail.
This would have been more appropriate on 4/8:

 

[Rich W.]

I've been a casual observer as I'm still shopping and one thing remains as always clear, folks tend to say nothing when things are working and scream when they fail.
This would have been more appropriate on 4/8:
View attachment 23946

….yes that did get rather ugly which is rare on this forum. Thankfully.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Oh man...
I'm afraid to comment!
I went to Home Depot the other day, and walked out to contemplate the value my project really holds for me! I went to the market, to buy some chicken quarters, because I knew the price of beef was out of budget, and walked out with a bag of pintos! I went into a KOA in Flagstaff,AZ to buy water, and refused to pay 20 bucks for whatever water I could haul!

I can tell you the companies I think are theives, and those that are just trying to deal with inflation!

I just wonder who will turn the thief in for not having a utilities licence!

I believe from the bottom of my heart that companies like WB and Newmar, when looking at the market,and the price of their projects, are really proud of the price point they offer. How they bring it may not meet the customers approval in All cases! But at the end of the day I think they pat each other on the back realizing they are doing something almost impossible!!!

[mod edit: removed section - politics]

Now my disclaimer:

I'm just another Bubba! I live on public Land, mostly because I have helped people in need, rather than figuring out how to put money in my pocket! I don't own a Newmar, don't know how I would keep diesel in it if I did!

I am not complaining, I am content with the outcome my sacrifices have given me!

What I am saying is look at what you have accomplished, what you have, and who you're with!!! Really thank God for what you have everyday and it may change your Outlook of others!!!

It would definitely improve this forum!!!