Changing house battery to Lithium.

[Kevin D Pem]

Might I add!

If I were ever planning to connect to the grid! I would invest in a inverter/charger. That eliminates the following, because it is included in one box!!!

Transfer switch
Converter

It is My understanding that the inverter in these units are low frequency/low voltage inverters. Although they are heavier, bigger, and more expensive. They are also the BEST money can buy, and will outlast the low end garbage 10 times.

I have such an inverter without the charging capability, and the reason has been stated in the lines above. Don't ask the brand! Because I built it from parts.

 

[RollingManCave]

No picture handy. I found the info in the convertor owner's manual that came with the camper. If I get out there, I will try to get the info you want

No picture handy. I found the info in the convertor owner's manual that came with the camper. If I get out there, I will try to get the info you want.

Thanks John but I found one online. Looks like it is partially hidden behind the face plate. Probably why I don't remember seeing it. I can swap out converter module if I don't have it. After reading online about the auto sense I think I would rather have the switch. I think you are correct that it's the older units that don't have the option to charge lithium.

 

[RollingManCave]

Dissimilar batteries on the same system are asking for problems. I am sure if you search this website you will find a good explanation as to why.

As far as pushing notifications I always say no! Don't really understand it, and don't like things that are to convenient. Neal can answer that question.

You can setup your circuits however you want. As systems go mine is simple. My house cord plugs into My inverter. My AC plugs directly into the generator or pedestal( I was plugged into the grid for two months once, that was ample!). Because it is a window unit, I could plug it into the house and supplement the solar, but I would rather travel to a more moderate temperature.

When I had one, My converter was plugged into the generator via an extension cord to avoid a feedback loop.

I am the brain behind the system, so I am also the grunt that must configure it when nessisary. I find it much less troubling!

When you have solidified what you want, then you can get real answers for the methods, and equipment to get there.

Always know that you can get answers here. While exploring the possibilities, and while sourcing equipment!

When you say "Dissimilar batteries", do you mean Lead & Lithium or two different amp hour ratings? I was thinking the largest lithium I could fit in the battery box and then chained to another larger Lithium(s).

 

[RollingManCave]

Might I add!

If I were ever planning to connect to the grid! I would invest in a inverter/charger. That eliminates the following, because it is included in one box!!!

Transfer switch
Converter

It is My understanding that the inverter in these units are low frequency/low voltage inverters. Although they are heavier, bigger, and more expensive. They are also the BEST money can buy, and will outlast the low end garbage 10 times.

I have such an inverter without the charging capability, and the reason has been stated in the lines above. Don't ask the brand! Because I built it from parts.

Looking at and trying to figure out "

Victron Energy MultiPlus-II 2X Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger for 120 amp Battery, 120V, 3000VA 12-Volt" Lots of money for my little 22xg but very impressive" I still need to feed the Converter supply leads to supply the 12-volt appliances. If I hook the coach converter up to the battery bank, I need to disable the alternator charging leads. Is this possible? The MultiPlus does have a hookup for the alternator and for the solar charger. This would eliminate the need for a DC to DC charger and still protect the alternator. Sounds like it has some other nice features like handling the shore power and genset power. Even kills or switches power output while Genset warms up or shuts down. It will even combine battery power to other power for startup surges. I downloaded the manual. Will have to read a few times to make sure it is within my abilities. Probably just have to research the terminology that is new to me. When I figure I don't need an inverter and a dc-dc charger it adds about $600. Might be the way to go. Lots of high tech for my little 22xg. I'll check online for reviews and install advice. I saw these before, but the price and specs were intimidating so I passed them buy. Thanks for pointing out those benefits!​

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Looking at and trying to figure out "

Victron Energy MultiPlus-II 2X Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger for 120 amp Battery, 120V, 3000VA 12-Volt" Lots of money for my little 22xg but very impressive" I still need to feed the Converter supply leads to supply the 12-volt appliances. If I hook the coach converter up to the battery bank, I need to disable the alternator charging leads. Is this possible? The MultiPlus does have a hookup for the alternator and for the solar charger. This would eliminate the need for a DC to DC charger and still protect the alternator. Sounds like it has some other nice features like handling the shore power and genset power. Even kills or switches power output while Genset warms up or shuts down. It will even combine battery power to other power for startup surges. I downloaded the manual. Will have to read a few times to make sure it is within my abilities. Probably just have to research the terminology that is new to me. When I figure I don't need an inverter and a dc-dc charger it adds about $600. Might be the way to go. Lots of high tech for my little 22xg. I'll check online for reviews and install advice. I saw these before, but the price and specs were intimidating so I passed them buy. Thanks for pointing out those benefits!​

When it comes to Price consider this.

A cheap what's known as an auto inverter has a high frequency step up DC to DC converter. It has small transformers because at high frequency more efficiently (less iron,less copper)! This reduces cost in comparison to what you are looking at now. The unit you are looking at has a 115vac 60 Hz commercial grade transformer that will last, well a life time, unless you abuse it.

The auto inverter has one big problem! They don't make High power diodes that work well with high frequency! Using the Best of the Best, still has a life expectancy of 1.5 to 2 years, when on All the time!

You may get different results, this is from an engineering standpoint.

Then it is switched by high power FETs for your AC power frequency!

On the unit you are now considering, the diodes that cause the problem are eliminated because there is no conversion between a frequency and DC!

The H bridge responsible for converting DC to AC is running at 60hz, and at system voltage (12 to 48 volts typically). This reduces shock to the solid state devices that are doing the work! Expected Life expectancy? 10+ years.

Multiplying the lower priced unit by (on the short side) 5, plus All other expenses make for an easy decision .

 

[Wemustrv]

Hi Folks,
Any Help is appreciated!!

2022 Coachman Freelander 22- E350 class C with 4000-watt genset, roof a/c,12 volt fridge/freezer.

Goal 1:
Change House Battery to Lithium 2OO amp hour.

Goal 2:
Add Soler panels and more batteries.

My research so far:

Some motorhomes have the built in capacity for Lithium and some don't.
You can fry your battery, Alternator or have problems with the Genset if you don't have the Lithium capacity built in.
I have little knowledge on DC to DC but his looks like for RV's without a House battery?

Victron Energy SmartShunt Looks like it might protect alternator?​

Lithium Battery Isolation Manager li-bim 225. Looks like it protects Alternator and genset overcharge and you use this to replace factory BIM???


Anybody know if I have this capacity built in and can just swap out old battery with Latium? (My unit came "solar ready" but this just looks like for a portable solar unit that is just hooked straight to the battery with no controller).
Any insights on next steps?
Thanks for any insight you can offer!!!

Welcome to RVforums from Ely, Iowa

 

[RollingManCave]

When it comes to Price consider this.

A cheap what's known as an auto inverter has a high frequency step up DC to DC converter. It has small transformers because at high frequency more efficiently (less iron,less copper)! This reduces cost in comparison to what you are looking at now. The unit you are looking at has a 115vac 60 Hz commercial grade transformer that will last, well a life time, unless you abuse it.

The auto inverter has one big problem! They don't make High power diodes that work well with high frequency! Using the Best of the Best, still has a life expectancy of 1.5 to 2 years, when on All the time!

You may get different results, this is from an engineering standpoint.

Then it is switched by high power FETs for your AC power frequency!

On the unit you are now considering, the diodes that cause the problem are eliminated because there is no conversion between a frequency and DC!

The H bridge responsible for converting DC to AC is running at 60hz, and at system voltage (12 to 48 volts typically). This reduces shock to the solid state devices that are doing the work! Expected Life expectancy? 10+ years.

Multiplying the lower priced unit by (on the short side) 5, plus All other expenses make for an easy decision .

No argument. Still have to fit it all in the budget. I am retired on a small pension, SS and nest egg. I love to travel and the reason I moved from a Nissan Niv to the Freelander. I also like traveling to other countries (In Asia now). I have made it several months in the RV at a time and working towards fulltime, so the upgrades are worth it to me if I make the transition. I want the 200-400 watt solar up top first, with controller going to 300-500 AH of Lithium powered battery bank after that. That's a nice chuck of money to start out with. I am thinking Freelander converter to a 2- bank battery switch. One pole to the lead acid bank & one pole to the Lithium bank. I already have an AC charger I can hook up to the Lithium bank and plug into the AC on the Freelander during Shore or Genset power supply. When I want to feed the power from the Lithium bank to the Freelander, I just flip the battery switch. Flip it back to lead when I motor on down the road or while using shore/Genset. I fire up the genset only when I use the Microwave or A/C (lead bank & Lithium bank gets recharged during that use). Everything else works on 12 Volt. The final upgrade would be to the Victron. Anyway, that's my plan for now unless something better comes up. I do appreciate your expertise and comments! Makes total sense to me but I have to try and keep the $ bank account fully charged as well!

 

[RollingManCave]

Welcome to RVforums from Ely, Iowa

Thank you! Decided not to go that direction. Think I have it figured out now unless something new pops up.

 

[RollingManCave]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their input. It helped a lot. I figure the upgrade to solar, and lithium will run about $4 to $4.5K. Probably is worth it to go full time.

• This is what I have decided on:
  Victron Energy MultiPlus-II Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger for 120 amp Battery, 120V, 3000VA 12-Volt
• The MultiPlus-2 does so many nice things for full time I can't pass it up.
• Genset starting, combine power sources when needed, charges lithium, charges starter battery, many protections and alerts, updateable and expandible, senses Genset & shore power.

--Victron Energy SmartSolar MPPT Solar Charge Controller (Bluetooth) - Charge Controllers for Solar Panels - 100V, 50 amp, 12/24-Volt. More expensive but plug and play with Multiplus-2.

--Lithium Battery Isolation Manager by Battle Born Batteries (Automotive)​

--Renogy 460 AH Lithium Battery

--600-800 Watts of solar power.

--Renogy Solar Panel 200W 12V Lightweight Monocrystalline Semi-Flexible​

OR

--Topunive 100W 12V Flexible Solar Panel 9BB Monocrystalline Cell 12 Volt Semi-Flexible.​

--I see folks are buying used ridged commercial grade for their Class A's. I don't want the weight up top.
Might be a good idea to store a few under the Motorhome in a rack for free standing during long stays.

--Small 4-5k btu A/c for sleeping area that can run off the battery. I can run the 13,500 btu off the Genset if needed during the day. I usually only use it during cooking, showers or too cool down the camper before tuning in for the night.

If I screwed up somewhere, please let me know

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Have seen more failed semi flexible panels than any other. Yes lighter but!!!

 

[RollingManCave]

Have seen more failed semi flexible panels than any other. Yes lighter but!!!

That seems to be the consensus. Some are saying the newer ones are less problematic and the reviews seem to be showing that (more money). I do want to keep the weight of the roof, so I am willing to sacrifice longevity. Also, I am not going with a large solar panel array, preferring to split battery charging between solar, genset and conservation techniques. I do plan on an undercarriage rack for a few DIY portables made out of used commercial grade panels. They are cheap if you can stop by the supplier and pick them up or if you can use a pallet load of 20 of them. On my little Motorhome I would need to mount them on the outside walls to use all 20. If I had an older RV I would try that just for fun.

 

[RollingManCave]

I Just came across a video put together by a battery company for it's Service dealers about this topic. I warn you it is long (not meant for the consumer) but very informative and discusses much of the advice you folks have graciously given me. Helps visualize the discission making process. Hope it helps others navigate the topic.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

That seems to be the consensus. Some are saying the newer ones are less problematic and the reviews seem to be showing that (more money). I do want to keep the weight of the roof, so I am willing to sacrifice longevity. Also, I am not going with a large solar panel array, preferring to split battery charging between solar, genset and conservation techniques. I do plan on an undercarriage rack for a few DIY portables made out of used commercial grade panels. They are cheap if you can stop by the supplier and pick them up or if you can use a pallet load of 20 of them. On my little Motorhome I would need to mount them on the outside walls to use all 20. If I had an older RV I would try that just for fun.

I get that!!! And yes I have an older "trailer"! Imagine an old poorly built ugly corrugated aluminum trailer trash trailer with 390 lbs of second hand solar panels on the roof!!! No CO detector needed because the owner has no real need for a generator, because he is frugal!

OK! I don't have a pallet of them! I only have 12 of them! The problem I have is I can only share My bounty with one friend at a time! I really should have got the pallet, then I could have helped more friends!!!

 

[RollingManCave]

I get that!!! And yes I have an older "trailer"! Imagine an old poorly built ugly corrugated aluminum trailer trash trailer with 390 lbs of second hand solar panels on the roof!!! No CO detector needed because the owner has no real need for a generator, because he is frugal!

OK! I don't have a pallet of them! I only have 12 of them! The problem I have is I can only share My bounty with one friend at a time! I really should have got the pallet, then I could have helped more friends!!!

I love it!!! I would mount some panels on the side walls just for fun. I don't have any friends so I don't need more panels. I am sure if I had more panels I would have more friends.
I started out with a Nissan NV that I converted to a camper with a portable Generator, Portable A/C,Port-a-potty well you get the idea. When I decided I was going to move towards full time I sold the Nissan and purchased the Freelander. Other than maintenance and security I have done very little to it. Now that I am going to go full time I will start making upgrades a few at a time. Upgrade lithium Converter, Alternator Lithium BLM, a small Lithium battery bank and a small inverter to power the Microwave and 110 outlets. I found and watched videos on those done to my unit and are within my abilities. That should keep me happy for quite awhile. A few solar panels with charger will be the next Upgrade. This will allow me to live in it within my life style and small budget. Some of those high-end upgrades would be nice but not in the budget for now. Maybe a few years from now. Life is like electrical current, ups and downs and you just need to continually figure out how to keep it flowing.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

I love it!!! I would mount some panels on the side walls just for fun. I don't have any friends so I don't need more panels. I am sure if I had more panels I would have more friends.
I started out with a Nissan NV that I converted to a camper with a portable Generator, Portable A/C,Port-a-potty well you get the idea. When I decided I was going to move towards full time I sold the Nissan and purchased the Freelander. Other than maintenance and security I have done very little to it. Now that I am going to go full time I will start making upgrades a few at a time. Upgrade lithium Converter, Alternator Lithium BLM, a small Lithium battery bank and a small inverter to power the Microwave and 110 outlets. I found and watched videos on those done to my unit and are within my abilities. That should keep me happy for quite awhile. A few solar panels with charger will be the next Upgrade. This will allow me to live in it within my life style and small budget. Some of those high-end upgrades would be nice but not in the budget for now. Maybe a few years from now. Life is like electrical current, ups and downs and you just need to continually figure out how to keep it flowing.

You know that the Nomad community is humongous right? The only thing you need to do to join, and have a bunch of friends willing to give you the shirt off their back, is to be like them, and be generous to a fault!

I have never felt like any of my friends have taken advantage of me!!! Life is the circles we hang in!!! Has little to do with what we have! And more to do with your heart!!!