Consignment Sale with NIRVC

[redbaron]

If you call an insurance company and say you need insurance because you had an accident in the new vehicle you want insured...moral is, how would you get insurance after an incident? Are insurance companies obligated to insure you? Seems weird...

In Texas -- yes. I learned about this when my friend wrecked is Travel trailer on Sunday, after purchasing Friday. He had not yet processed coverage for it. He was in the hospital for 3 days and then started dealing with insurance. He was able to select the "best" coverage available with lowest deductible, and have it cover the entire accident. The justification was that all his owned vehicles are covered, and this was a new purchase within 30 days.

I also think the fact that he had coverage on another RV at the time, and was replacing the insurance with a new one may be part of the equation. He always carried the best coverage, so it may be why this worked as it did for him.

 

[turbopilot]

For a transaction of this size a 3rd party escrow agent should be involved. Not one big transaction I have been involved in since beginning of this pandemic has gone smoothly. Many reasons but employees working from home seems to be a common theme.

 

[GlampDaddy]

Looks like Brett needs another one of those staff meetings.

 

[Neemer]

I’m sorry you’ve had this experience, @ARD .

 

[Jireh Financial]

A dealer should NEVER let something leave without a binder or signed Agreement to Provide Insurance from the buyer. I believe the story that started this involved financing. A valid insurance binder (means coverage in place and paid for) is a required piece for most finance packages. Most lenders want a valid binder for the unit in place before funding the contract. HOWEVER, some lenders will fund on the signed Agreement to Provide Insurance. That gives the buyer a small window to secure proper coverage. Lenders do have other options if that goes too long including forced insurance and that is really expensive for the buyer. In either case, the seller is basically clear once everything is signed. It only takes the seller a minute to cancel insurance coverage and that is a good idea.
Speaking for us, getting a title even when no lien is in place can take a bit. If there is a payoff involved, we often will wait 2 - 3 weeks for a cleared title and the release of lien to get to us.
(my comments have been edited after reading the dealers response).
Ken

 

[Brett Davis]

What a trainwreck, with a save by the Finance Manager! BUT FOR HER (shout out to Sesty Harris), I would be writing an entirely different post. First of all, let me preface my remarks….ALL of the employees that I dealt with are very nice, good intentioned people, so it makes writing this post all the more difficult because I like them. So shoving that aside, let me share my experience as an owner selling my coach via Consignment with NIRVC at the Lewisville location. I write this with the intention of helping other consignment newbies in being more prepared, thus having a positive and smooth experience. It could happen.

What happened after I signed the Consignment Agreement? NIRVC immediately had the coach detailed and it was on their website pronto. I had an offer within a day or two. It was put back on the available list as the buyer needed to work out some credit issues. Within a week came the second offer. An inspection was done, and we had an agreement on the following day (Thursday). The salesperson told me that the buyers would be taking possession of the coach on Friday. Now this is where it gets bizarre. I didn’t hear anything from anyone about the sale. The salesperson was MIA. WHO was handling this transaction? I had no idea. No one kept me in the loop. I texted the salesperson to see if we closed and whether I can cancel my insurance. I finally reach someone and that someone was Sesty. It did not go well at all. The buyers had closed and were going to drive off in my coach and I was told - you, owner, will not be receiving any money because you didn’t give us title. Wait, what?! I gave the Sales Manager everything weeks ago and was told everything would be taken care of by their title department.

So I ask, how is it that the buyer is driving off in my coach with the title in my name. Oh you can imagine what I was thinking and feeling.

I finally receive a copy of the Settlement Statement and it was incorrect. I received a corrected copy which I signed and returned. Meanwhile, the buyers have left the premises in “my” coach. I wrote the Sales Manager an email and copied the salesperson and the Finance Manager. I expressed my disappointment due to unmet expectations; total lack of communication between each “department” with each other and me; and the feeling that the only party that mattered was the buyer.

To date, I have not heard from the Sales Manager or the salesperson in response to my email. Sesty, however, immediately emailed me and then called. She apologized and acknowledged that we got off on the wrong foot. She further explained how the process should have transpired. Someone dropped the ball, (cough) Sales Manager. Sadly, I am not the only person this has happened to. I have no doubts if Sesty has it in her power, it will not be repeated again.

So let’s get back to the title issue. NIRVC shouldn’t even had my coach for sale without actual title in their hands. Had I known they needed a copy of the printed title rather than the copy of the electronic title I gave them, I would have obtained it immediately. Instead I was told that their title person would take care of it. As an FYI, in Florida the buyer initiates a title transfer and as an owner I file a notice of sale to protect me from liability in the event the buyer gets in an accident while title is still in my name.

On Friday, at 7 pm EST, I requested a printed copy of the title to be sent to NIRVC which would take 7 to 10 business days. I sent a copy of the request to Sesty and she told me to contact Melissa in accounting on Monday with wiring instructions. She said that they would be able to wire the money since she had a copy of my request for printed title. I believe this was a generous concession on her part.

I called Melissa Monday and she was polite as she tried to track down yet another person, the treasury accountant, who I would need to give my wiring instructions to. At this point, I’m confused. I thought Melissa was the accounting person, but no problem. Finally, the right person has my wiring instructions and then it gets weirder. She tells me that the loan should fund Tuesday and then they would wire me my funds on Wednesday.

HUH? So the buyers have driven off in my coach, have joined the FB Newmar’s Owners Group, made a post about their new coach while the title is still in my name and they haven’t paid for it yet?! Forget title, NIRVC didn’t even have the money to wire to me in the first place. I’m speechless. Yeah, I know it happens sometimes.

I received a call from Sesty as well and she explained the only reason they let them drive off was because it was their bank that was doing the lending; therefore, they knew the money was coming. Okay, I like you and I don’t want to be rude, so I kept my mouth shut. Anything I had to say was pointless since everything was after the fact. However, I felt rather incredulous and the ONLY reason I didn’t go ballistic is because I have met Brett Davis and his integrity is unquestionable. So I’m not worried, but this is very messed up.

To conclude, the buyers have been in possession of “my” coach for 6 days. I should receive a wire today. NIRVC will get the printed title in 7-10 business days and then they can initiate a title transfer. It doesn’t make sense to me, but there you go.

So that’s my story. My two cents are as follows…if you decide to sell your coach on consignment, request printed title immediately if your coach is registered electronically. Do not rely on anyone’s statement that such and such will take care of it. As it turns out, FL asked some personal questions and NIRVC would never have been able to request the printed title anyway. Once they receive that, they can then initiate a transfer of title.

I don’t care how nice the salespeeps are. Keep your mouth shut. Don’t give them any information. They are SALESpeople. They only care about the buyer. And the fact that you may be using them to buy a new coach doesn’t matter.

Find out who is going to keep you in the loop. Know the process. You will sign an agreement with the Sales Manager, then what. Find out what departments/people the deal will flow through, who should be doing what and what to expect. Get their names and their contact information. Make an organizational chart. Seriously, I’m not kidding. Copy everyone on everything and maybe you will get a response from someone. For me, that person was Sesty, the Finance Manager. She did her best to fix everyone else’s failures and do the best by me.

If anyone else has sold their rig on consignment, please consider contributing to this thread with any information/advice to assist others in being smart and having a successful and satisfying transaction. I doubt I would sell a coach this way again but if I do, I will be a little bit smarter about it.

Happy Travels!

Renee

Good evening Renee,

I’d first like to start my reply by thanking Ronnie and Buddy for alerting me of your post while I was flying home from our Phoenix facility this afternoon.

Secondly, I’d like to thank you again for trusting both the consignment sale of your previous coach, as well as the ordering of your new coach to National Indoor RV Centers. We sincerely appreciate it, and truly appreciate you! It’s not lost on us who pays our paychecks.

Thirdly, I thoroughly enjoyed meeting you in Granby, CO at our AIM Rally! Especially, after the roller coaster ride of not knowing if you could make it to the rally after your DEF Head failed. Fortunately for everybody in attendance at the Rally, our parts department pulled a rabbit out of their hat, got you a new DEF Head, and we all got the opportunity to meet you, get to know, and now love you. Plus, I personally got the added benefit of getting to know you even better over lunch in Lewisville when you dropped your coach off for consignment.

Renee, I’m very reluctant to conduct communications with who I consider to now be a dear and valued customer of our NIRVC family over a public forum. I trust you can appreciate my reluctance, and hope you’ll understand my unfortunate need to now respond publicly. I promise to stick only to the facts, and remain completely silent on the sales price of your coach, as that is your business.

In my opinion, when it comes to NIRVC as a company, we will lose with potential, and we can only win with performance. With that in mind, I’ve undertaken to collect as many our people’s voice messages, recorded calls from our phone system, emails, and signed documents, in an attempt to put together as complete of timeline of your transaction as I possibly could. From my seat at NIRVC I need to see where our people performed, and where we have potential for improvement. Please feel free to fill in anything in this timeline I’ve failed to uncover.

7/30/21 (Friday) You signed our standard Consignment Agreement, and initialed all items. NIRVC waived its Advertising Fee. You also showed our Sales Manager a copy of your title.

8/2/21 (Monday) Your coach was cleaned, decored, photographed, and listed for sale on our website, RVTrader, RVT, Google, etc.

8/4/21 (Wednesday) After your approval we collected a deposit from Buyer #1, and put your coach on hold in our system.

8/9/21 (Monday) We canceled the transaction with Buyer #1, because the buyer couldn’t obtain financing.

8/10/21 7:24am (Tuesday) Our Sales Manager emailed you to let you know Buyer #1 wasn’t able to obtain financing, and we had taken your coach off hold.

8/13/21 (Friday) You approved a sale to Buyer #2, a deposit was taken, and your unit was put back on hold in our system.

8/17/21 (Tuesday) 12:10pm The bank approved Buyer #2’s loan with no stipulations.

8/19/21 Inspection of your coach was completed detailing the repairs required by the Extended Service Plan the Buyer wanted, and purchased.

8/19/21 5:18am You emailed our RV Lifestyle Specialist approving a reduction in the sales price of your coach to cover repairs. In the same email you gave our RV Lifestyle Specialist the heads up you probably wouldn’t be available for the rest of the day as your mother had suffered a setback.

Now Friday 8/20/21 becomes a very busy day! The day of the sale!

8/20/21 (Friday) 2:30pm Closing, walk through, and delivery of your old coach to Buyer #2 was completed.

2:43pm Our Finance Manager electronically transferred all the executed closing documents to the Bank.

2:44pm Our Title Clerk called you requesting the original paper title.

3:05pm You called our Sales Manager and left a voice message.

3:16pm Our Finance Manager emailed you, and copied in the same email our Title Clerk, Sales Manager, and Accounting Department with the Settlement Statement, wiring instructions, and requesting verification the Florida Electronic Title had been released to NIRVC before we would be able to release funds once the Bank funded.

3:20pm Our Sales Manager returned your call, and left a detailed voice message letting you know your coach had sold, and you would be receiving a Settlement Statement along with wiring instructions.

5:20pm You responded to our Sales Manager’s voice message by email, and copied both our Finance Manger and RV Lifestyle Specialist, wherein you thanked our Sales Manager for the returned call, and his voice message.

5:33pm Our Finance Manager responded to your email copying in our Sales Manager and RV Lifestyle Specialist with screenshots showing you the correct way to initiate the transfer.

5:43pm Our Finance Manager called you to confirm you had received her email of 5:33pm, and then verbally walked you through how to initiate the transfer in Florida. In the same call our Finance Manager explained how our Treasury Accountant in our Finance Department who normally handles all our wires was out sick with Covid, but would send you our Account Manager’s contact information, so you could provide your wiring instructions by phone versus email.

6:02pm Our Finance Manager emailed you (copying in our Sales Manager and RV Lifestyle Specialist) with our Account Manager’s contact information.

6:04pm Our Finance Manager forwarded her email of 6:02pm to our Account Manager making her aware of your upcoming call.

By shear coincidence Renee, I personally stopped by our Sales Manager and Finance Manager’s offices to discuss another matter. From 5:30pm to around 6:15pm I witnessed all these calls and emails. I was the one who told our Sales Manager not to send the email he had drafted in response to your email at 5:20pm, because our Finance Manager had already responded to you with the same information. I felt it was redundant, and told him to “please not unnecessarily bombard this poor lady while her mother is in the hospital.” It was my bad.

8/24/21 (Tuesday) 11:02am We were notified by the bank they had funded the loan, and funds would be in our account on 8/25/21.

8/24/21 (Tuesday) 11:04am Our Finance Manager called you to let you know the loan had been funded, and the funds would be in our account on 8/25/21.

8/25/21 (Wednesday) 11:57am Your funds were wired to you by “Urgent Wire.” “Urgent Wire” means your funds were sent immediately.

8/25/21 1:40pm You posted on RVForums.

Again Renee, if I’ve missed anything in the above timeline, please feel free to correct me. I would now like to address what I see as your main concerns:

1. I’d like to explain why neither you, nor NIRVC was at risk in letting the new buyers drive off our lot without funds, or title in hand. As an attorney, I’m sure you can appreciate the sale of your coach actually took place the moment the buyers had executed all the closing documents. In every legal respect they now own the coach the moment they finished signing. And, they are the party who is truly at risk! They had signed a note and security agreement to the Bank obligating them to monthly payments for the next 20 years, they had paid their down payment, they had insured the coach, and they didn’t even have a title to what they just paid for. You did. As it stands right now today, you have your funds, and the bank doesn’t have title to its collateral. Reflect a moment on who is really at risk here? All the risk and liability transferred at 2:30pm on 8/20/21. Your funds were transferred to you today. The Bank and the buyers are trusting us to supply them with the title, and we in turn are trusting you to supply us with your title.

2. You had no liability for any accidents, theft, etc. once the buyers drove off our lot in their new coach. All that liability transferred from you to their insurance company at 2:30pm on 8/20/21. Just like auto dealers, no one drives off our lot without having secured insurance, and is a continuing requirement of their security agreement to the Bank for the entirety of their loan.

3. Once we receive an approval from the Bank with no stipulations, and the buyers have executed their closing documents, which includes a note and security agreement, we let coaches leave our lot. The Bank is now legally, and contractually bound to fund us. Think of this in terms of automobiles. When you buy a new car you don’t wait for days, or weeks for the title to be processed. You don’t wait for the Bank to open and fund the next morning, or after the weekend. No, you drive off in your new car as soon as you’ve signed the documents. Coaches are no different.

4. Once we verify you are the owner of the coach, and have obtained a Power of Attorney from you to sell the coach, we do list the coach for sale, and proceed with selling the coach. Immediately! In the event you failed to provide us with your title, with your Power of Attorney in hand we would be able to obtain a duplicate title. However, this would delay your funding, but thankfully in your case, and with the help of our Finance Manager you were able to provide us with confirmation of the Electronic Title issued to NIRVC, which is why you received your funds today. We are assured the paper title will follow.

5. It’s always the responsibility of a seller to provide a physical title. Now, as a dealer we don’t collect, or initiate anything with respect to the title until after a sale for a few reasons. First, most buyers have a lien against their coach which takes time to process the title after the loan has been paid off. Second, if the seller has a physical title they are generally very reluctant to leave it with a dealer until their coach is sold. Thirdly, if it’s an electronic title, as a dealer we are not the owner of the coach, and therefore cannot initiate the transfer. Only the owner/seller of the coach can initiate the transfer. Finally, without a sale to a buyer, who would you initiate the transfer to?

In closing, as I look back over the entirety of your transaction, which took 25 days (18 business days) from the date the Consignment Agreement was executed to funds in your account, it’s not lost on me what had to transpire during those 25 days. Our team cleaned, decored, photographed, advertised, conducted two sets of negotiations, two different sales, two finance submissions, a denial, an approval, an inspection, repairs, a walk through and delivery, funding, plus we still have two titles left to process, and I’m sitting in my office pondering where we dropped the ball? Where can we improve our Consignment program? What wasn’t disclosed, or covered in our Consignment Agreement, which I’ve read and reread several times this afternoon? As a company we do over 100 consignments per month, and if we can improve our program, I sincerely want to improve it. But as I sit here this evening I just have an overwhelmingly feeling sadness that failed to meet your expectations. I hope we can change the taste you currently have in your mouth for NIRVC with the delivery of your new coach. I know we’re certainly going to die trying!

Onward,
Brett

 

[redbaron]

If I understand the timing, the bank was at risk since the title had not transferred yet from Renee. The banks risk was offset by legal papers with NIRVC, who was protected by the agreement with Renee to perform her obligation in transferring the title.

It appears that all parties acted in "Good Faith" and used common sense and further, common practice.

@ARD , did your spam grab some of the communication that was sent late Friday? I have had several business deals get stressful because responses where grabbed by spam.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Without taking sides, it was good to see an official response from NIRVC. Thanks, @Brett Davis for taking the time to do this. Sometimes, it takes hearing from both sides to fully understand a complex transaction and realize that both perspectives are valid. I do think that @redbaron captured the true nature of this situation:

It appears that all parties acted in "Good Faith" and used common sense and further, common practice.

TJ

 

[turbopilot]

Really great to have Brett Davis respond here. Really builds confidence for me. I plan to consign my 2018 Newmar New Aire with Brett's Las Vegas operation next month. And like Rebaron I have had some transactions go sideways when Google snagged valid emails and put them into Spam.

 

[Neal]

I also agree it's outstanding that Brett took the time to investigate and detail a reply here to ensure confidence in NIRVC for others going forward. Thank you Brett. The question is what caused Renee to panic and was there a communication breakdown. That is between Renee and NIRVC and hopefully whatever got missed such as simply better explaining how things work as Brett did above can put future consignees at ease. I'm sure the feeling someone is driving your coach that you think is not legally theirs is the major cause for concern. On top of being Friday evening at the nth hour. A formula for maximum stress sadly.