Consignment Sale with NIRVC

[Brett Davis]

What a trainwreck, with a save by the Finance Manager! BUT FOR HER (shout out to Sesty Harris), I would be writing an entirely different post. First of all, let me preface my remarks….ALL of the employees that I dealt with are very nice, good intentioned people, so it makes writing this post all the more difficult because I like them. So shoving that aside, let me share my experience as an owner selling my coach via Consignment with NIRVC at the Lewisville location. I write this with the intention of helping other consignment newbies in being more prepared, thus having a positive and smooth experience. It could happen.

What happened after I signed the Consignment Agreement? NIRVC immediately had the coach detailed and it was on their website pronto. I had an offer within a day or two. It was put back on the available list as the buyer needed to work out some credit issues. Within a week came the second offer. An inspection was done, and we had an agreement on the following day (Thursday). The salesperson told me that the buyers would be taking possession of the coach on Friday. Now this is where it gets bizarre. I didn’t hear anything from anyone about the sale. The salesperson was MIA. WHO was handling this transaction? I had no idea. No one kept me in the loop. I texted the salesperson to see if we closed and whether I can cancel my insurance. I finally reach someone and that someone was Sesty. It did not go well at all. The buyers had closed and were going to drive off in my coach and I was told - you, owner, will not be receiving any money because you didn’t give us title. Wait, what?! I gave the Sales Manager everything weeks ago and was told everything would be taken care of by their title department.

So I ask, how is it that the buyer is driving off in my coach with the title in my name. Oh you can imagine what I was thinking and feeling.

I finally receive a copy of the Settlement Statement and it was incorrect. I received a corrected copy which I signed and returned. Meanwhile, the buyers have left the premises in “my” coach. I wrote the Sales Manager an email and copied the salesperson and the Finance Manager. I expressed my disappointment due to unmet expectations; total lack of communication between each “department” with each other and me; and the feeling that the only party that mattered was the buyer.

To date, I have not heard from the Sales Manager or the salesperson in response to my email. Sesty, however, immediately emailed me and then called. She apologized and acknowledged that we got off on the wrong foot. She further explained how the process should have transpired. Someone dropped the ball, (cough) Sales Manager. Sadly, I am not the only person this has happened to. I have no doubts if Sesty has it in her power, it will not be repeated again.

So let’s get back to the title issue. NIRVC shouldn’t even had my coach for sale without actual title in their hands. Had I known they needed a copy of the printed title rather than the copy of the electronic title I gave them, I would have obtained it immediately. Instead I was told that their title person would take care of it. As an FYI, in Florida the buyer initiates a title transfer and as an owner I file a notice of sale to protect me from liability in the event the buyer gets in an accident while title is still in my name.

On Friday, at 7 pm EST, I requested a printed copy of the title to be sent to NIRVC which would take 7 to 10 business days. I sent a copy of the request to Sesty and she told me to contact Melissa in accounting on Monday with wiring instructions. She said that they would be able to wire the money since she had a copy of my request for printed title. I believe this was a generous concession on her part.

I called Melissa Monday and she was polite as she tried to track down yet another person, the treasury accountant, who I would need to give my wiring instructions to. At this point, I’m confused. I thought Melissa was the accounting person, but no problem. Finally, the right person has my wiring instructions and then it gets weirder. She tells me that the loan should fund Tuesday and then they would wire me my funds on Wednesday.

HUH? So the buyers have driven off in my coach, have joined the FB Newmar’s Owners Group, made a post about their new coach while the title is still in my name and they haven’t paid for it yet?! Forget title, NIRVC didn’t even have the money to wire to me in the first place. I’m speechless. Yeah, I know it happens sometimes.

I received a call from Sesty as well and she explained the only reason they let them drive off was because it was their bank that was doing the lending; therefore, they knew the money was coming. Okay, I like you and I don’t want to be rude, so I kept my mouth shut. Anything I had to say was pointless since everything was after the fact. However, I felt rather incredulous and the ONLY reason I didn’t go ballistic is because I have met Brett Davis and his integrity is unquestionable. So I’m not worried, but this is very messed up.

To conclude, the buyers have been in possession of “my” coach for 6 days. I should receive a wire today. NIRVC will get the printed title in 7-10 business days and then they can initiate a title transfer. It doesn’t make sense to me, but there you go.

So that’s my story. My two cents are as follows…if you decide to sell your coach on consignment, request printed title immediately if your coach is registered electronically. Do not rely on anyone’s statement that such and such will take care of it. As it turns out, FL asked some personal questions and NIRVC would never have been able to request the printed title anyway. Once they receive that, they can then initiate a transfer of title.

I don’t care how nice the salespeeps are. Keep your mouth shut. Don’t give them any information. They are SALESpeople. They only care about the buyer. And the fact that you may be using them to buy a new coach doesn’t matter.

Find out who is going to keep you in the loop. Know the process. You will sign an agreement with the Sales Manager, then what. Find out what departments/people the deal will flow through, who should be doing what and what to expect. Get their names and their contact information. Make an organizational chart. Seriously, I’m not kidding. Copy everyone on everything and maybe you will get a response from someone. For me, that person was Sesty, the Finance Manager. She did her best to fix everyone else’s failures and do the best by me.

If anyone else has sold their rig on consignment, please consider contributing to this thread with any information/advice to assist others in being smart and having a successful and satisfying transaction. I doubt I would sell a coach this way again but if I do, I will be a little bit smarter about it.

Happy Travels!

Renee

Good evening Renee,

I’d first like to start my reply by thanking Ronnie and Buddy for alerting me of your post while I was flying home from our Phoenix facility this afternoon.

Secondly, I’d like to thank you again for trusting both the consignment sale of your previous coach, as well as the ordering of your new coach to National Indoor RV Centers. We sincerely appreciate it, and truly appreciate you! It’s not lost on us who pays our paychecks.

Thirdly, I thoroughly enjoyed meeting you in Granby, CO at our AIM Rally! Especially, after the roller coaster ride of not knowing if you could make it to the rally after your DEF Head failed. Fortunately for everybody in attendance at the Rally, our parts department pulled a rabbit out of their hat, got you a new DEF Head, and we all got the opportunity to meet you, get to know, and now love you. Plus, I personally got the added benefit of getting to know you even better over lunch in Lewisville when you dropped your coach off for consignment.

Renee, I’m very reluctant to conduct communications with who I consider to now be a dear and valued customer of our NIRVC family over a public forum. I trust you can appreciate my reluctance, and hope you’ll understand my unfortunate need to now respond publicly. I promise to stick only to the facts, and remain completely silent on the sales price of your coach, as that is your business.

In my opinion, when it comes to NIRVC as a company, we will lose with potential, and we can only win with performance. With that in mind, I’ve undertaken to collect as many our people’s voice messages, recorded calls from our phone system, emails, and signed documents, in an attempt to put together as complete of timeline of your transaction as I possibly could. From my seat at NIRVC I need to see where our people performed, and where we have potential for improvement. Please feel free to fill in anything in this timeline I’ve failed to uncover.

7/30/21 (Friday) You signed our standard Consignment Agreement, and initialed all items. NIRVC waived its Advertising Fee. You also showed our Sales Manager a copy of your title.

8/2/21 (Monday) Your coach was cleaned, decored, photographed, and listed for sale on our website, RVTrader, RVT, Google, etc.

8/4/21 (Wednesday) After your approval we collected a deposit from Buyer #1, and put your coach on hold in our system.

8/9/21 (Monday) We canceled the transaction with Buyer #1, because the buyer couldn’t obtain financing.

8/10/21 7:24am (Tuesday) Our Sales Manager emailed you to let you know Buyer #1 wasn’t able to obtain financing, and we had taken your coach off hold.

8/13/21 (Friday) You approved a sale to Buyer #2, a deposit was taken, and your unit was put back on hold in our system.

8/17/21 (Tuesday) 12:10pm The bank approved Buyer #2’s loan with no stipulations.

8/19/21 Inspection of your coach was completed detailing the repairs required by the Extended Service Plan the Buyer wanted, and purchased.

8/19/21 5:18am You emailed our RV Lifestyle Specialist approving a reduction in the sales price of your coach to cover repairs. In the same email you gave our RV Lifestyle Specialist the heads up you probably wouldn’t be available for the rest of the day as your mother had suffered a setback.

Now Friday 8/20/21 becomes a very busy day! The day of the sale!

8/20/21 (Friday) 2:30pm Closing, walk through, and delivery of your old coach to Buyer #2 was completed.

2:43pm Our Finance Manager electronically transferred all the executed closing documents to the Bank.

2:44pm Our Title Clerk called you requesting the original paper title.

3:05pm You called our Sales Manager and left a voice message.

3:16pm Our Finance Manager emailed you, and copied in the same email our Title Clerk, Sales Manager, and Accounting Department with the Settlement Statement, wiring instructions, and requesting verification the Florida Electronic Title had been released to NIRVC before we would be able to release funds once the Bank funded.

3:20pm Our Sales Manager returned your call, and left a detailed voice message letting you know your coach had sold, and you would be receiving a Settlement Statement along with wiring instructions.

5:20pm You responded to our Sales Manager’s voice message by email, and copied both our Finance Manger and RV Lifestyle Specialist, wherein you thanked our Sales Manager for the returned call, and his voice message.

5:33pm Our Finance Manager responded to your email copying in our Sales Manager and RV Lifestyle Specialist with screenshots showing you the correct way to initiate the transfer.

5:43pm Our Finance Manager called you to confirm you had received her email of 5:33pm, and then verbally walked you through how to initiate the transfer in Florida. In the same call our Finance Manager explained how our Treasury Accountant in our Finance Department who normally handles all our wires was out sick with Covid, but would send you our Account Manager’s contact information, so you could provide your wiring instructions by phone versus email.

6:02pm Our Finance Manager emailed you (copying in our Sales Manager and RV Lifestyle Specialist) with our Account Manager’s contact information.

6:04pm Our Finance Manager forwarded her email of 6:02pm to our Account Manager making her aware of your upcoming call.

By shear coincidence Renee, I personally stopped by our Sales Manager and Finance Manager’s offices to discuss another matter. From 5:30pm to around 6:15pm I witnessed all these calls and emails. I was the one who told our Sales Manager not to send the email he had drafted in response to your email at 5:20pm, because our Finance Manager had already responded to you with the same information. I felt it was redundant, and told him to “please not unnecessarily bombard this poor lady while her mother is in the hospital.” It was my bad.

8/24/21 (Tuesday) 11:02am We were notified by the bank they had funded the loan, and funds would be in our account on 8/25/21.

8/24/21 (Tuesday) 11:04am Our Finance Manager called you to let you know the loan had been funded, and the funds would be in our account on 8/25/21.

8/25/21 (Wednesday) 11:57am Your funds were wired to you by “Urgent Wire.” “Urgent Wire” means your funds were sent immediately.

8/25/21 1:40pm You posted on RVForums.

Again Renee, if I’ve missed anything in the above timeline, please feel free to correct me. I would now like to address what I see as your main concerns:

1. I’d like to explain why neither you, nor NIRVC was at risk in letting the new buyers drive off our lot without funds, or title in hand. As an attorney, I’m sure you can appreciate the sale of your coach actually took place the moment the buyers had executed all the closing documents. In every legal respect they now own the coach the moment they finished signing. And, they are the party who is truly at risk! They had signed a note and security agreement to the Bank obligating them to monthly payments for the next 20 years, they had paid their down payment, they had insured the coach, and they didn’t even have a title to what they just paid for. You did. As it stands right now today, you have your funds, and the bank doesn’t have title to its collateral. Reflect a moment on who is really at risk here? All the risk and liability transferred at 2:30pm on 8/20/21. Your funds were transferred to you today. The Bank and the buyers are trusting us to supply them with the title, and we in turn are trusting you to supply us with your title.

2. You had no liability for any accidents, theft, etc. once the buyers drove off our lot in their new coach. All that liability transferred from you to their insurance company at 2:30pm on 8/20/21. Just like auto dealers, no one drives off our lot without having secured insurance, and is a continuing requirement of their security agreement to the Bank for the entirety of their loan.

3. Once we receive an approval from the Bank with no stipulations, and the buyers have executed their closing documents, which includes a note and security agreement, we let coaches leave our lot. The Bank is now legally, and contractually bound to fund us. Think of this in terms of automobiles. When you buy a new car you don’t wait for days, or weeks for the title to be processed. You don’t wait for the Bank to open and fund the next morning, or after the weekend. No, you drive off in your new car as soon as you’ve signed the documents. Coaches are no different.

4. Once we verify you are the owner of the coach, and have obtained a Power of Attorney from you to sell the coach, we do list the coach for sale, and proceed with selling the coach. Immediately! In the event you failed to provide us with your title, with your Power of Attorney in hand we would be able to obtain a duplicate title. However, this would delay your funding, but thankfully in your case, and with the help of our Finance Manager you were able to provide us with confirmation of the Electronic Title issued to NIRVC, which is why you received your funds today. We are assured the paper title will follow.

5. It’s always the responsibility of a seller to provide a physical title. Now, as a dealer we don’t collect, or initiate anything with respect to the title until after a sale for a few reasons. First, most buyers have a lien against their coach which takes time to process the title after the loan has been paid off. Second, if the seller has a physical title they are generally very reluctant to leave it with a dealer until their coach is sold. Thirdly, if it’s an electronic title, as a dealer we are not the owner of the coach, and therefore cannot initiate the transfer. Only the owner/seller of the coach can initiate the transfer. Finally, without a sale to a buyer, who would you initiate the transfer to?

In closing, as I look back over the entirety of your transaction, which took 25 days (18 business days) from the date the Consignment Agreement was executed to funds in your account, it’s not lost on me what had to transpire during those 25 days. Our team cleaned, decored, photographed, advertised, conducted two sets of negotiations, two different sales, two finance submissions, a denial, an approval, an inspection, repairs, a walk through and delivery, funding, plus we still have two titles left to process, and I’m sitting in my office pondering where we dropped the ball? Where can we improve our Consignment program? What wasn’t disclosed, or covered in our Consignment Agreement, which I’ve read and reread several times this afternoon? As a company we do over 100 consignments per month, and if we can improve our program, I sincerely want to improve it. But as I sit here this evening I just have an overwhelmingly feeling sadness that failed to meet your expectations. I hope we can change the taste you currently have in your mouth for NIRVC with the delivery of your new coach. I know we’re certainly going to die trying!

Onward,
Brett

 

[redbaron]

If I understand the timing, the bank was at risk since the title had not transferred yet from Renee. The banks risk was offset by legal papers with NIRVC, who was protected by the agreement with Renee to perform her obligation in transferring the title.

It appears that all parties acted in "Good Faith" and used common sense and further, common practice.

@ARD , did your spam grab some of the communication that was sent late Friday? I have had several business deals get stressful because responses where grabbed by spam.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Without taking sides, it was good to see an official response from NIRVC. Thanks, @Brett Davis for taking the time to do this. Sometimes, it takes hearing from both sides to fully understand a complex transaction and realize that both perspectives are valid. I do think that @redbaron captured the true nature of this situation:

It appears that all parties acted in "Good Faith" and used common sense and further, common practice.

TJ

 

[turbopilot]

Really great to have Brett Davis respond here. Really builds confidence for me. I plan to consign my 2018 Newmar New Aire with Brett's Las Vegas operation next month. And like Rebaron I have had some transactions go sideways when Google snagged valid emails and put them into Spam.

 

[Neal]

I also agree it's outstanding that Brett took the time to investigate and detail a reply here to ensure confidence in NIRVC for others going forward. Thank you Brett. The question is what caused Renee to panic and was there a communication breakdown. That is between Renee and NIRVC and hopefully whatever got missed such as simply better explaining how things work as Brett did above can put future consignees at ease. I'm sure the feeling someone is driving your coach that you think is not legally theirs is the major cause for concern. On top of being Friday evening at the nth hour. A formula for maximum stress sadly.

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

Brett Davis is a breath of fresh air. I appreciate him publicly addressing the issue and as I always say there are two sides to every story.

 

[Neal]

Well, I don't think this story is about sides. The question is what made the seller feel this way and if something needs to be fixed to prevent this in the future, that is the takeaway. So from the seller point, whenever Renee wants to respond, what are the key areas that raised anxiety. Where could the experience be improved for a future seller? In the end I'm sure NIRVC wants the buyer happy and the seller happy. If something failed on either end of that deal, what can be improved to make this a win/win next time.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Personally, I think this should now be between Renee and Brett to sort out. We, as the broader public are not owed any further involvement. The facts have been well-presented and whatever perceptions created this exchange are between them.

TJ

 

[Neal]

Having spoken with Renee knowing this story was forthcoming, let's fallback to why she posted it. I know she is not available at the moment which is why I'm chiming in on her behalf.

This story was not an attack on NIRVC but for those selling via consignment to understand the process but also understand how things happen and concerns as it related to her sale. Imagine you learn your coach is in the hands of new owners and see a Facebook post of them driving off when you aren't confident it's not still your liability. Yes, there is the side of the story of how some things broke down and caused high anxiety. Others will go down this path of consignment and can be better armed with how the process works such as title prep, contracts/agreements, what if you have an existing loan on your coach (hasn't been discussed as it didn't apply to her). As I write this, maybe there is a place for @NIRVC in the Dealer Connection forum to outline how to sell your coach using their consignment services. It may actually attract business for the RV community to know that this is available and what the process is. How to best prepare for selling via consignment, how NIRVC handles your coach and sale, etc. We as fellow RVers can discuss when it's right to use consignment vs. selling on your own because you will take a significant financial hit for the price of convenience. @NIRVC could also in another post detail their IN/OUT service, which I still don't fully understand simply because I don't have to, I'm not selling/buying at this time. Just a few thoughts as education and communication are the keys to success.

 

[MapNerd]

Well, I don't think this story is about sides. The question is what made the seller feel this way and if something needs to be fixed to prevent this in the future, that is the takeaway. So from the seller point, whenever Renee wants to respond, what are the key areas that raised anxiety. Where could the experience be improved for a future seller? In the end I'm sure NIRVC wants the buyer happy and the seller happy. If something failed on either end of that deal, what can be improved to make this a win/win next time.

You raise the critical, most important question in my opinion @Neal - what made the seller feel this way.

To me, based purely on what I have read (a couple times at length now) it sounds like a case of parties not being on the same page regarding the step-by-step process of selling a coach by consignment. I will fully admit that when I considered selling early in the year, I had multiple dealers offering to sell by consignment but I always said no purely because I did not at all, understand the process.

I think @ARD raised a lot of good questions in her post, questions that none of us actually knew the answer to and could only speculate and make assumptions on. That obviously can lead to massive misunderstandings when people who don’t know the process are just trying to use logic and common sense to sort through a complicated process. Usually, the more complex a process or transaction, the more steps in that process that are completely counterintuitive, which is where we fall victim to making incorrect assumptions

Equally, I think @Brett Davis’ post did an excellent job explaining that process, what the steps are, how each party is protected, etc. This may already exist but if not, maybe a very simple, plain language, infographic educating consignment sellers on the step-by-step process, what happens when, and how they are protected at each step, should be included and gone over with each consignment seller.

The most valuable lesson I have ever learned in my life can be summed up in just 4 words.

ALWAYS. ASSUME. GOOD. INTENT.​

Many people take that to mean that one should allow themselves to be taken advantage of but nothing could be further from the truth. What it means is it is imperative to take a breath, stop for a moment and put yourself in the shoes of the other party. It’s much harder than it sounds.

If anyone is a Game of Thrones fan, there is an excellent quote from the character Littlefinger/Petyr Baelish towards the very end of the series when he is advising his new queen on how to interpret the actions of others.

Sometimes when I try to understand a person's motives, I play a little game. I assume the worst. What's the worst reason they could possibly have for saying what they say and doing what they do? Then I ask myself, 'How well does that reason explain what they say and what they do?

Here’s the important piece of context to understand about that quote though - Littlefinger is executed by the queen shortly thereafter, using the same logic that he advised her with. He was a slimeball the entire series and got what was coming to him, but if only he had advised her to assume the best.

I have learned and re-learned this lesson of always assuming good intent many times. When I fail to abide by it, more often than not it bites me in the rear.

 

[RKins]

After reading this thread, I think I learned Do Not initiate any transaction on a Friday. The beginning and the end of this story happened on a Friday - the consignment and the 2nd sale. Usually communication lapses happen over a weekend.

 

[redbaron]

After reading this thread, I think I learned Do Not initiate any transaction on a Friday. The beginning and the end of this story happened on a Friday - the consignment and the 2nd sale. Usually communication lapses happen over a weekend.

But the car and rv industries have their busiest day on Saturday, so Friday shouldn't be a factor in the sales and finance side

 

[Neal]

The problem and answer is simple. It's the most common cause for any and all problems whether relationships or business deals.

COMMUNICATION

 

[GlampDaddy]

The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.
--GB Shaw

 

[FL-JOE]

When it came time to sell out Newmar several months ago I turned to a member here who had sold his Newmar. Based on how his sale went, plus what I considered a fairly high commission rate for consignment, I decided to list it myself on RVTrader and a couple other places. Within 5 weeks it was gone for a price I was happy with. If I was honest with how many hours I devoted in showing my rig and taking calls it would add up to me making somewhere over $2,000 per hour.

Recently a friend who had my exact same make, year, model of Newmar decided to sell his. He initially toyed with the idea of consignment but after we talked he listed his on RVTrader. Within a week his sold for slightly more than mine did several months ago.

We have all dealt with RV salesmen. They don't get up in the morning and go to work thinking "wow, I sure hope I can help one of my customers out today", no, they go to work to MAKE MONEY off selling something. You just have to decide if paying $20,000, $30,000 or more to sell your RV is worth it to you. I decided it wasn't in today's market conditions.

Now I'm not taking sides with the OPs original post. I think the only thing she was doing was giving some advise to anyone considering a consignment deal, which is what I am doing. I have never met Brett Davis and I know from this forum most of you who have thinks he is a water walker and wonderful. Possibly if I ever met him or dealt with him I would think the same. But IMHO anyone who spent the kind of money she did to sell her coach should talk away with a warm and fuzzy felling that she got her moneys worth.