Emergency DEF bypass

[GUS2000]

very easy to put together and probably $40 in parts

 

[team bradfield]

very easy to put together and probably $40 in parts

Agree, very simple, don't worry about programming, also simple

 

[flyboy013]

They cost me $30 to build. The guy selling for $600 sounds line a crook. I developed the firmware and made it freely available to folks with a non commercial license. If i was interested in making money I would be taking legal action against him and others.

 

[MemoriesByTheMile]

Why be upset about someone’s pricing?
If too high and it isn’t a monopoly, then just buy elsewhere. Market forces will bring balance.

 

[flyboy013]

Because he’s selling my intellectual property that I offer to Owners for free. He has no right to sell my IP. If folks want to change folks $75, I’m fine with that since it does take 10-15 minutes to build one.

 

[Rich W.]

I am going to try to build one of the Bypass units following available instructions above. Looks relatively easy to construct, the programming and compatibility/operation with the Spartan Chassis equipment might be the hard part.

The DSS was originally designed for Spartan and then adapted to FL so you shouldn’t have any problems. Back when it was developed the parts were under $100

 

[Freightrain]

I have recently purchased a 2015 Dutch Star on a Freightliner chassis. Is the a simulator available to bypass to get me off the road if I have a def issue?

 

[Rich W.]

I have recently purchased a 2015 Dutch Star on a Freightliner chassis. Is the a simulator available to bypass to get me off the road if I have a def issue?

No. Pre 2016 emissions are not compatible with the DSS and a lot of 2016 coaches are on 2015 chassis so even they have 2015 emissions. And it’s not just the plug difference which was the initial problem adapting the DSS (designed for Spartan) to FL. That issue was easily solved because it was just the plug and the electronics were essentially the same.

But pre-16 systems are a lot more on the analog side of things (an electronics expert I am not). The good news is that the pre-16 system don’t have the QUAL (DEF quality) sensor which was a weak link in the system causing headed failures for several years. Also the level sensor in the pre-16 systems is mechanical (a simple float) so it is often to easy to solve errant “low DEF” issues which would otherwise derate you and could leave you stranded.

So the short answer (guess I could have just started with this) is that while the DSS won’t work for you, you also don’t have that much need for it. Below is a link to the TSB on the FL DEF header tank level issue and the typical fix. I’ve also seen accounts of people flushing the tank several times with hot water to clean the float assembly and resolve the issue without pulling the DEF header.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2013/MC-10142383-9999.pdf

Another common problem with pre-16 DEF headers was tank heater valve failures. When the valve fails, it fails in the open position (dumb engineering decision) so if it opens errantly it cooks the DEF at engine temp which degrades it to the point that it no longer functions in the SCR so once again, you DEF temp warnings and/or low DEF warnings when your tank isn’t empty. The fix is to either by-pass the tank heater (since you probably don’t need it anyway) or if you plan to operate in sub 12° F weather (unlikely) you can install a manual valve on the supply side. There is ample info on this available and it is a simple cheap fix.

 

[Rich W.]

Because he’s selling my intellectual property that I offer to Owners for free. He has no right to sell my IP. If folks want to change folks $75, I’m fine with that since it does take 10-15 minutes to build one.

Thanks for the straight answer on this. I was shocked when I saw the $600 price tag, but decided to stay out of it. Maybe it’s different/more involved for Volvo systems? I don’t know but I hope Spartan and FL owners aren’t paying that much for a DSS.

Most of what I post about this is from memory during the R&D phase (before I was banned from that other site) so please feel free to fact check/correct any info I post about it. I understand the systems failrly well but the electronic side is, and will remain, a mystery to me.

My goal, like yours, is to simply help people get through the emissions debacle rather than being stranded and spending ridiculous amounts of money to fix problems caused by bad policy and insufficient engineering (had to step back on my soap box for a moment). But my abilities stop far short of the EEE side of things.

 

[Freightrain]

No. Pre 2016 emissions are not compatible with the DSS and a lot of 2016 coaches are on 2015 chassis so even they have 2015 emissions. And it’s not just the plug difference which was the initial problem adapting the DSS (designed for Spartan) to FL. That issue was easily solved because it was just the plug and the electronics were essentially the same.

But pre-16 systems are a lot more on the analog side of things (an electronics expert I am not). The good news is that the pre-16 system don’t have the QUAL (DEF quality) sensor which was a weak link in the system causing headed failures for several years. Also the level sensor in the pre-16 systems is mechanical (a simple float) so it is often to easy to solve errant “low DEF” issues which would otherwise derate you and could leave you stranded.

So the short answer (guess I could have just started with this) is that while the DSS won’t work for you, you also don’t have that much need for it. Below is a link to the TSB on the FL DEF header tank level issue and the typical fix. I’ve also seen accounts of people flushing the tank several times with hot water to clean the float assembly and resolve the issue without pulling the DEF header.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2013/MC-10142383-9999.pdf

Another common problem with pre-16 DEF headers was tank heater valve failures. When the valve fails, it fails in the open position (dumb engineering decision) so if it opens errantly it cooks the DEF at engine temp which degrades it to the point that it no longer functions in the SCR so once again, you DEF temp warnings and/or low DEF warnings when your tank isn’t empty. The fix is to either by-pass the tank heater (since you probably don’t need it anyway) or if you plan to operate in sub 12° F weather (unlikely) you can install a manual valve on the supply side. There is ample info on this available and it is a simple cheap fix.

Thank you for your response. What does SCR and TSB stand for?
Also, can you recommend a code reader for this 2015 Dutch Star? I had a small one for my 2014 Ram. Very useful. Then I had it deleted.

 

[Roadglide117]

I talked to a guy that build them and leases them, illegal to sell them. He told me analog systems, you are wasting money to have one, it will never get used.

 

[Rich W.]

Thank you for your response. What does SCR and TSB stand for?
Also, can you recommend a code reader for this 2015 Dutch Star? I had a small one for my 2014 Ram. Very useful. Then I had it deleted.

SCR is the Selective Catalyst Reduction unit where the DEF does its magic. It comes after the DPF (diesel particulate filter) which comes after the DOC (diesel oxidation catalyst). Together they make up the “after treatment” system. See the diagram below - it shows the changes from 2015 to 2016 systems.

TSB stands for Technical Service Bulletin. See the link in post #23.

The best code reader for the money I’ve found is the Diesel Laptops Heavy Duty Handheld. It reads from the J1939 ports and has cables for earlier heavy duty diesel diagnostics (J1708 and J1597) and also OBDII. Also it will allow you to run forced regens with is really important - it’s not worth buying a simple code reader that doesn’t. They are $600 new and $300 used. I bought mine used and couldn’t tell it from a new unit. Here’s the links to link them: Diesel Laptops Handheld Heavy-Duty Scan Tool with Regen

Used Diesel Laptops Handheld Heavy-Duty Scan Tool with Regen

Please Note: This kit is used and is in good condition. The Diesel Handheld scanner is very simple to use. This handheld is specifically designed for the heavy-duty market. It allows reading and clearing of DTC's, Live data reading, and even DPF regens on most makes and models. This tool comes...

www.diesellaptops.com

They also have great tech support and an excellent return policy.

 

[Joe Dutchstar]

I am going to try to build one of the Bypass units following available instructions above. Looks relatively easy to construct, the programming and compatibility/operation with the Spartan Chassis equipment might be the hard part.

The easy step is complete. Ordered from Digi-Key. Verifying the connector to def tank today and will order that piece.

 

[flyboy013]

There are several online stores where you can purchase the connector (Spartan or FL) with a pigtail. It makes the assembly process a whole lot easier.

 

[CaptainGizmo]

$600 his profit margin is built for the Newell crowd lol...

They cost me $30 to build. The guy selling for $600 sounds line a crook. I developed the firmware and made it freely available to folks with a non commercial license. If i was interested in making money I would be taking legal action against him and others.

Wasn't trying to stir things up...but let me defend him since I consider him a friend...and far from a crook.

He's an electronic engineer and has done extremely well, working for a wide range of corporations, cellular carriers, and even the stock exchange and government.

He knows the cost of writing software and shuns accusations of those who think it's cheap. He programs, and guarantee he doesn't steal.

He's also run full frontal into the suits for EPA...and said if you think THEY are bad, wait til you run up against CARB!! He made several attempts to clear his units for production, but it was quite clear he wasn't going to win. Although...NOW they've been eluding to the fact that he could go ahead and produce them since they've backed of on the units being a 'WORK-AROUND' to the DEF emissions system.

I've talked about the "cheap" DIY solutions out there, and his simple answer is "that's fine, let them build theirs, and I'll build mine." He's making his durable, waterproof, and...as with everything he programs and builds, he knows he's going to be on tap for 24/7 customer support.

So, big difference of a DIY Radio Shack box, and a product that will be sold with a guarantee it will work, along with any support needed.

I hope this somewhat rationalizes what he charges and, more so, defends him from being a "crook" who stole anyone's IP.