Emergency DEF bypass

[CaptainGizmo]

You should invite your buddy to join here to get his input and understand his development and sales process..

In all due respect, he’s not the least bit interested. He makes what he needs for his friends. He’s got a full handle on development.

 

[GUS2000]

In all due respect, he’s not the least bit interested. He makes what he needs for his friends. He’s got a full handle on development.

Let me be perfectly clear.. It was not an invitation to have him market his product, but to understand how he came up with the concept, how he developed or where he obtained the code, etc.. You are in here defending him and he is not speaking for himself, so unless he has something to hide, then he should have no problem with transparency..

 

[redbaron]

Thread Warning:

It is clearly established that the source code is owned exclusively by @flyboy013 and that he alone can legally sell the product.

It serves no purpose to our community to further discuss the topic. This forum is not the enforcement agency for copyright infringement.

Further any posts offering for sale or discussing the sale of these products that are not officially endorsed by a commercial member should be avoided.

Let’s keep it friendly and on topic of helping others.

 

[GUS2000]

Thread Warning:

It is clearly established that the source code is owned exclusively by @flyboy013 and that he alone can legally sell the product.

It serves no purpose to our community to further discuss the topic. This forum is not the enforcement agency for copyright infringement.

Further any posts offering for sale or discussing the sale of these products that are not officially endorsed by a commercial member should be avoided.

Let’s keep it friendly and on topic of helping others.

Sorry had my IP Audit hat on

 

[CaptainGizmo]

Guys,

I regret mentioning anything to help the OP. I find myself in the middle of something I never intended, so I apologize.

I do feel I need to clear the air a bit, here, since some of my word choices may have led others in the wrong direction.

First, Tim is a friend of mine who's had a very successful career and is still very busy. He's not a "forum person" for a variety of reasons, so that's why I spoke on his behalf TO THE BEST OF MY knowledge.

I shouldn't have mentioned "sells" the emulator because, just as others, he's merely building them for the Newell owners who contact him. He's NOT doing this as a business. This is the very reason he didn't want me to banner his contact info since he has no intentions of get into "selling" these things; but he's glad to make one for those who need it.

Tim, being in the industry, is keenly aware of, and respectful of, IP...so I truly hope no one has developed the opinion that he's anything else.

Again, I'm sorry for trying to help someone with a solution and creating something uncomfortable or controversial. So I hope my final words clear it up a bit and will bow out.

Steve

 

[Marc S]

They cost me $30 to build. The guy selling for $600 sounds line a crook. I developed the firmware and made it freely available to folks with a non commercial license. If i was interested in making money I would be taking legal action against him and others.

Hey flyboy. I just built one as you said for about 30 bucks. My MH is in storage so I can't verify the proper connector for my unit. It's a 2022 Freightliner M2 with Detroit engine. I used the Plug: 1-1703818-1. Is that correct? Thx

 

[flyboy013]

That is the connector that Freightliner. has used for the DEF Heads. What coach is this for that you have a Detroit engine as opposed to Cummins? DSS has been tested with Cummins ECMs. Will probably work with Detroit, but it has been tested to my knowledge.

 

[Marc S]

That is the connector that Freightliner. has used for the DEF Heads. What coach is this for that you have a Detroit engine as opposed to Cummins? DSS has been tested with Cummins ECMs. Will probably work with Detroit, but it has been tested to my knowledge.

Thanks for the quick response. It's a 2023 Dynamax 37RB.

 

[Roadglide117]

I was under the impression that it was the chassis manufacture that had different connectors..sparton..freightliner..not an engine type. Maybe someone can shed light on it

 

[Lonny]

Because he’s selling my intellectual property that I offer to Owners for free. He has no right to sell my IP. If folks want to change folks $75, I’m fine with that since it does take 10-15 minutes to build one.

Can you build be one 2022 tiffin. Allegrobus.or help me

 

[flyboy013]

I can walk you through the process. It’s not difficult. See the below page for instructions and the parts.

DEF Sensor Simulator – CanBed RP2040

Assembling a DEF Sensor Simulator Using a CanBed RP2040 Only basic electrical and DIY skills are required for the hardware assembly, however some basic soldering is needed to install the 4 pin conn…

defsimulator.wordpress.com

 

[FLSteve]

RB’s link is correct ( DEF Sensor Simulator ), its about $150 to build, but it will only work on 2016 and later chassis (my 2016 coach is on a 2015 chassis so not compatible) and as designed, it is only compatible with Spartan chassis coaches and some Tiffin (Powerglide chassis?) models with solid-state DEF level, temp, and quality sensors.

To make it work with 2016 and later Freightliner coaches you have to acquire the correct 4-pin (CAN-bus) connector (now also detailed on the website).

@Rich W. ...... I built one for my 2022 Mountain Aire on a Spartan chassis but just downsized to a 2025 New Aire on a Freightliner chassis.

1) Would this be as easy as just replacing the 4-pin (CAN-bus) connector from Spartan to Freightliner?

2) Is the programing the same?

I never had to use it, but driving down the road I was never too worried as I knew I had it "in my back pocket"

FLSteve

 

[flyboy013]

1) Would this be as easy as just replacing the 4-pin (CAN-bus) connector from Spartan to Freightliner?

2) Is the programing the same?

It would be as easy as replacing the connector. If you originally purchased the Diode Dynamics extension cable and still have the unused half of the cable, you could just put the freightliner connector on the cut end of that cable and you would be able to connect the DSS to either a Spartan or Freifhtliner chassis. This new cable would be an adapter that you would plug into the existing DSS box.

In either case, no reprogramming is required.

 

[FLSteve]

I am a little late to the game, but I have just located another source for a DEF Head Simulator (at least it was new to me). I built the one for my Spartan, but decided to just buy one ($400) for my new coach that is on a Freightliner. This is a plug and play one that has been field tested so I know it will work. I never used the one I built for the Spartan, so just hoped it would work if needed.

To address the possible legality issues, you sign a use agreement (I attached it). Seems like an ingenious way to get past this. Company seems very professional and above board. I am only posting this to help others if this fits their needs. Not saying it's the best way to go, but for me it was perfect and I will have it within the week. I had never heard of them before today when I saw it on Facebook. FYI only.

From Voyager RV, LLC .... "The problem we wrestled with was how to build these and help out other RV'ers without getting our business tangled up with the EPA or any other legal stuff. The attached Use Agreement is how we decided to proceed. It outlines the terms and cost for the DSS. The Lease construct keeps everyone out of the legal gray area of "buying/selling" devices that interface with EPA approved emissions systems. Our business operates completely above board (you won’t find us on eBay or “selling under the table”) and the Use Agreement ensures all involved are doing the right thing."

FLSteve

Matt and Shelly Jeffery
Voyager RV, LLC
VRVS.NET
[email protected]
863.670.4111
"RV Solutions for a stress-free journey!"

 

[GUS2000]

interesting business model for something that costs so little to build.. lease for $400.. hmmmmm.

 

[redbaron]

I wonder if they are licensed to do this by @flyboy013 ?

 

[Joe Hogan]

It appears that the EPA , might be changing its position on DEF for diesel trucks/RVs. The current administration is removing the ability of States to apply for waivers to pass state laws on vehicle emissions. Looks like CARB and similar state departments days are numbered.

DEF Law Changes Diesel Trucks

Recent developments regarding diesel trucks and Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) laws have been shaped by significant regulatory changes under the Trump administration. The EPA has rolled back several emissions regulations, including those related to diesel trucks, which has sparked discussions about the legality of modifications such as "deleted" diesel trucks Despite these rollbacks, federal law still prohibits tampering with emission controls on motor vehicles, and removing or disabling factory emission controls remains illegal under the Clean Air Act

The EPA's recent actions include reconsidering vehicle emissions standards and halting the "Clean Trucks Plan" which aimed to reduce NOx emissions from heavy-duty engines Additionally, the Big Beautiful Bill, H.R. 1, repealed the Diesel Emissions Reduction Program (DERA) and other emission-related funding, which could affect local emissions compliance incentives However, it is important to note that while these rollbacks may offer regulatory relief for manufacturers and fleets, they do not make the removal of emissions equipment legal

In terms of DEF requirements, there is no federal regulation mandating all diesel trucks to use DEF. However, some states have implemented their own regulations requiring fleets to utilize DEF, with penalties for non-compliance The EPA has clarified that certain vehicle classes do not require DEF, such as Class 1-3 vehicles weighing less than 8,500 pounds empty weight and vehicles used exclusively for off-road use

As of now, the legality of deleted diesel trucks remains unchanged, and the EPA has not explicitly legalized the practice of removing or disabling emissions control equipment The situation is further complicated by the potential for state-level variations in enforcement, particularly in states like California, which has its own stringent emissions regulations

 

[redbaron]

@Joe Hogan - I can tell you that in Montana & Texas the legality is no longer in question for the general population. There are shops now advertising DEF delete services and performing them at reasonable prices.

 

[FLSteve]

@Joe Hogan - I can tell you that in Montana & Texas the legality is no longer in question for the general population. There are shops now advertising DEF delete services and performing them at reasonable prices.

Wow, that sounds good. Does that mean once this is done that the huge muffler apparatus in the back goes away as well? They could almost put another storage compartment there.

 

[redbaron]

Wow, that sounds good. Does that mean once this is done that the huge muffler apparatus in the back goes away as well? They could almost put another storage compartment there.

When done, that large box is replaced with a normal exhaust. Still not enough room for storage on a retrofit.

It adds almost 75HP and 1mpg