LTVA set to change!!!

[Kevin D Pem]

So BLM is looking at changing it's price structure!

You'all have an oportunity to influence there plans this month!

What the changes may acomplish is largely reduce the attraction of what has become a destination for many of the RV community!

"A Long-Term Visitor Area Permit (Individual Special Recreation Permit, or ISRP) is required from September 15 through April 15 each season. The current cost for a Long-Term Permit is $180 and is valid for up to 7 months. A short-term permit is valid for 14 days and is $40. The National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass, often referred to simply as the America the Beautiful Pass, pertains to FLREA standard amenity fee recreation sites, and thus is not an accepted form of payment for LTVA ISRPs. This business plan outlines proposed changes to the current recreation fee program for the LongTerm Visitor Areas (LTVAs) located in Arizona. The Business Plan proposes to increase current fees from $180 to $600 per long-term permit, and from $40 to $200 per short-term permit. It would also modify the short-term permit length from 14 days to 30 days. This business plan was"

Keeping in mind, as usual, revenue increases with every visitor, this is a money grab that will ultimately distroy tourist trade in the SW. history has proven on the LTVA maintenance of the area is limited to enforcement of permit collecting, and very little of anything else.

The result will not turn the area into a resort, just another high priced piece of dirt to park an RV on, and destruction of the tent shows that are already struggling to be viable.

If you don't speak up, cross these destinations off your bucket list!!!

Here is their proposal:

https://www.blm.gov/sites/default/files/docs/2024-09/Public%20Room_Arizona_BLM%20Yuma%20Field%20Office%20Long-Term%20Visitor%20Areas%20Draft%20Business%20Plan_September%202024.pdf

 

[MemoriesByTheMile]

Not surprised these fees are going up with all other campground costs going up.

But for boondocking, $200 for a 14 day pass seems very expensive for dirt parking.

$600 for the whole winter season is still pricey, but a bit better.

Sticker shock for sure.

 

[Diesel Pusher]

If the Quartzsite LTVA fees do increase, $85 a month for the seven month season still seems pretty reasonable considering toilets, trash dumpsters, the new sewer dumps and new drinking water stations built last year at Quartzsite are included. The short term changing from 14 to 30 days for $200 is less than $7 a day. Still reasonable. What they need to do is add a 3rd choice, return the 14 day option, otherwise, the free areas like Road Runner south of La Posa will be even more crowded.

 

[Joe Hogan]

It would be nice if the BLM provide some basic economic reason for the increase rather than just throwing out a number. Maybe the decision is made of the cuff, but some rational has to be used to come up with a number.
Even though the BLM is a Government agency, you would think that it has to make an attempt to have a budget and track costs.

 

[Diesel Pusher]

It would be nice if the BLM provide some basic economic reason for the increase rather than just throwing out a number. Maybe the decision is made of the cuff, but some rational has to be used to come up with a number.
Even though the BLM is a Government agency, you would think that it has to make an attempt to have a budget and track costs.

The Yuma field office created a comprehensive 33 page business plan outlining all of the proposed changes with economic data to support. The plan is available for public viewing. Comments are encouraged. See attached

 

[Joe Hogan]

Didn't realize this was published. I'll give it a read.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

If the Quartzsite LTVA fees do increase, $85 a month for the seven month season still seems pretty reasonable considering toilets, trash dumpsters, the new sewer dumps and new drinking water stations built last year at Quartzsite are included. The short term changing from 14 to 30 days for $200 is less than $7 a day. Still reasonable. What they need to do is add a 3rd choice, return the 14 day option, otherwise, the free areas like Road Runner south of La Posa will be even more crowded.

I did post the link to the PDF! I was wondering how you got 85 bucks? 185 to 600 sounds like more that 85. maybe I need to go back to school to learn the new math!!!

 

[Kevin D Pem]

It would be nice if the BLM provide some basic economic reason for the increase rather than just throwing out a number. Maybe the decision is made of the cuff, but some rational has to be used to come up with a number.
Even though the BLM is a Government agency, you would think that it has to make an attempt to have a budget and track costs.

they did in their video! basicly because they are a business and they can because the local enviroment has higher prices they feel they can.

This is the deal! For a little under 200 a month I can find a place with utilities in a private park in Quartzite. My stay in the LTVA is about 5 months. so for 120 a month I can stay on a piece of dirt without on public land!

But this money grab has more! The tent shows rely on volume. take those on fixed income out of the picture and the volume will not be there! Actually forget the tent shows, the Quartzite economy relies entirely on the winter visitors. Drain the pockets for the government coffers, and the businesses will fail, and the entire draw to Quartzite fails.

I get it that most here enjoy the festiities offered for maybe a couple of weeks, so a 2 week or month pass sounds reasonable, but 3x higher to people that really feed the economy there, will send them seeking another option!

How many of you have heard of Why Arizona? All it took years back to empty the city trailer park where reservations were no longer needed was a hospitality tax! Make no mistake! What the BLM is planing is to increase the tax three fold to offer you the option to stay on your land for a few months a year!

I have an option, and will exercize it, but some have no options! This really is about them.

I hope you see it that way rather than what it means to your pocket book!!! Join many to speak against this.

 

[Rich W.]

Maybe the real agenda is to reduce the number of RV’s parked throughout these areas.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Maybe the real agenda is to reduce the number of RV’s parked throughout these areas.

Wouldn't that be great! But I don't think so. Looking at other projects in the wind for the deserts, we find large solar farm and other things that cause more enviromental harm!

You might be right though! Move everyone closer to 15 min cities!!!

 

[Joe Hogan]

read the document posted. If it is accurate that the rate has been steady since 2008, the increase, while not popular, seems warranted.
Hopefully they accomplish all the state goals.
The basic CPI calculations show an approximately 50% devaluation of the dollar since 2008.

CPI Inflation Calculator

 

[Kevin D Pem]

read the document posted. If it is accurate that the rate has been steady since 2008, the increase, while not popular, seems warranted.
Hopefully they accomplish all the state goals.
The basic CPI calculations show an approximately 50% devaluation of the dollar since 2008.

CPI Inflation Calculator

Not going there!!!
We all know inflation comes from printing fiat!
I'll stick with what devastation It will cause.

 

[Diesel Pusher]

I did post the link to the PDF! I was wondering how you got 85 bucks? 185 to 600 sounds like more that 85. maybe I need to go back to school to learn the new math!!!

$600 / 7 (months) = $85.72

 

[Kevin D Pem]

$600 / 7 (months) = $85.72

Most only stay 5 months. look at average highs to figure why!

 

[Gilbert Stavely]

I did post the link to the PDF! I was wondering how you got 85 bucks? 185 to 600 sounds like more that 85. maybe I need to go back to school to learn the new math!!!

That 600.00 is for up to a 7 month stay

 

[Kevin D Pem]

That 600.00 is for up to a 7 month stay

I guess I'm trying to reason with the wrong crowd! I may need to rethink that issue.

Let me explain, I guess I need to!

Many of the users of the LTVA use it as a last resort.
There are widows, literally living on a widows might! Doesn't affect you, so who cares right???

There are many that lost everything in the 2008 bubble living on SSI only! That means that the proposed increase, for some means 1/7th of the meager sustenance for those 7 months will be taken from them. Many who eat beans and rice to keep from being hungry! Yes, I know many of them! You won't ever see them with a pan on a street corner, because they have to much honor to consider that!!! I don't understand someone who confesses faith, that can't let our government know they object!!! My opinion is their confession is hypocrisy! But that's just how I see things!!!

Once again that doesn't effect you, right? Even if many people in today's market are saying we are headed for worse than 2008!!!

Seems as though you don't care enough to respond to the BLM on behalf of the unfortunate! I hope for your sakes that you never need that safety net. Many There saved and invested! I'm sure they said it would not happen to them, but it did!

In the early 80s people just parked there without any fee! Many of you don't realize the fee is illegal according to the constitution, but then again many here swar a life long oath to defend that constitution, but have no idea what they swar to defend! What a sorry state of affairs that is!!!

Like I said. If you are known for the company you keep! I am questioning why I'm here!!!

 

[Rich W.]

I think it’s just an awareness thing Kevin. I doubt any ill will is intended by anyone here and there is the impact to consider. Not all LTVs are conscientious and stewardly in their approach to boondocking and my guess is that has something to do with it. It reminds me of the “anchor out” controversy 20 years ago in the bay off Sausalito. Once side said the opposition was just upset because the sailors got free use of the bay; the other side complained about the environmental impact which was real. I don’t know the issue(s) here and I understand the financial impact on those with limited resources, but I sense (hope I guess) that this is more than just a money grab.

 

[Joe Hogan]

Unfortunately it takes resources to clean up the mess left by only a few irresponsible visitors.

American national parks vandalized, ruined by visitors, could take centuries to remedy: report

Some visitors at national parks have acted unruly and disobeyed rules that have has negative consequences on the ecosystem and wildlife, according to reports.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Unfortunately it takes resources to clean up the mess left by only a few irresponsible visitors.

American national parks vandalized, ruined by visitors, could take centuries to remedy: report

Some visitors at national parks have acted unruly and disobeyed rules that have has negative consequences on the ecosystem and wildlife, according to reports.

www.foxnews.com

Sorry Joe! What isn't known 1)those that leave a mess will be band the next year(LTVA). 2)a fine is levied! Remember that they have the person's information.

This is nothing like the people that leave TP behind every Bush in the forest!

Remember, I live around these people! If they are using such things as an excuse, they are bald faced lies!!!

Typically long term visitors, host, haul out more than they bring in! On the other side are what is referred to as weekend warriors! They do donuts with their ATVs leaving ruts in the dirt roads. Crap behind trees and don't cover the waste. Leave piles of used TP. Beer cans, butts from their smokes, aluminum foil, and broken glass in the fire pits. Walk away from smoldering fires so those that need those wild lands, will protect the land from them!!! No, those people that so many judge as not worthy, are likely the reason the forest/BLM are never seen cleaning up the mess. Don't fool yourself!!!

 

[jbollin]

Not surprised these fees are going up with all other campground costs going up.

But for boondocking, $200 for a 14 day pass seems very expensive for dirt parking.

$600 for the whole winter season is still pricey, but a bit better.

Sticker shock for sure.

I enjoy the LTVA in the Quartzsite Area. I visite this area every year. I pay my $180 but only stay about 6 weeks.
I am also a US war veteran. I served this
great country for over 4 years and put my life on the line in Nam. I fill, if it is necessary to increase the amount of revenue it this area then so be it. How even, I do fill they need to offer a reasonable discount to vets. After all. We are the ones that put are lives on hold to serve this great country of ours.