Question Rettroband - are they worth it?

[turbopilot]

The keyword in this thread "if installed correctly"

My concern from my initial opinion is that tires are not supposed to be messed with nor did tire manufacturers engineer their tires to have stuff inside of them, i.e. will this affect cooling, temps, breakdown, flexing, wear and tear? It's way too early for any data points on the new product that is RettroBands. It looks like a promising design, it seems like a good answer although outrageously priced as usual in this RV market space targeting seniors and retirement accounts on fear. Now lets also look at numbers. What is the total number of truck tires on the road (light truck I suppose is the better characterization) and how many of those fail? How many of those are at proper pressure, properly inspected, replaced at a respectable age, etc.? RettroBand doesn't prevent shredding and damage as happened to @Scotttkd2 I don't believe, so damage can still occur, components can be taken out, etc. but it's a run flat device affording controllability. There are pro's and con's to everything, the owner/buyer decides. Has NIRVC put out any direction on time intervals for RettroBand inspection? What if they come loose or components within fail?

Good questions but Rettroband appears to be nothing more than the "supporting ring design" typically used in run flat auto tires.

The bigger question I have is whether these steer tires on big heavy motorhomes should have a mileage/time limit for continued use much less than the drive tires. I would like to see an analysis of miles/time to typical failure time for these tires. Many of the reports I have seen seem to happen at around 20,000 miles or later. Maybe steer tires are only good for 15,000 miles.

 

[Richpatty]

The bigger question I have is whether these steer tires on big heavy motorhomes should have a mileage/time limit for continued use much less than the drive tires. I would like to see an analysis of miles/time to typical failure time for these tires. Many of the reports I have seen seem to happen at around 20,000 miles or later. Maybe steer tires are only good for 15,000 miles.

This is, to me, the key question…why are we seeing these blowouts on RVs? And they seem to be on the front tires in a higher proportion of times…. Is there some kind of limitation on how much the front tires can take?

 

[Neal]

What makes the news? What are the real statistics? How many front tire blowouts do any of us have a count of?

 

[Neemer]

Rettroband Saved the Day - iRV2 Forums

Just ran across this bit of news that I felt I needed to share. An owner of a 2018 King Aire, one of the heaviest class A diesel coaches, was driving from Atlanta to Las Vegas today when he had a

www.irv2.com

 

[turbopilot]

What makes the news? What are the real statistics? How many front tire blowouts do any of us have a count of?

Data would be nice but it likely won't happen soon. Just a simple question on various forums would help: "How many miles/time was on your drive tire before failure". If it is around 20,000 miles, for instance, it may make more sense to get new drive tires every 15,000 miles than buy and install Rettrobands.

 

[J&JD]

Seldom does one reports a rear tire blowout as it usually results in damage rather than a life threatening experience. In the hundreds of million miles driven by rvs and buses aren’t blowouts extremely rare and only the really serious ones noted or documented?

 

[Neal]

Data would be nice but it likely won't happen soon. Just a simple question on various forums would help: "How many miles/time was on your drive tire before failure". If it is around 20,000 miles, for instance, it may make more sense to get new drive tires every 15,000 miles than buy and install Rettrobands.

People overreact and if X had a blowout at 15K miles, people would take that one data point and replace tires at 15K miles. I'm approaching 7 years and 60K miles (knock on wood) and in January will be replacing tires. The Michelin guidance is supposedly good to 7 years (mileage not a factor) and inspect until 10. However, my treads are becoming a factor as well so that needs to be in the equation. I digress...how many data points would be needed to draw a conclusion? People are seeing a sum total of 2 maybe 3 blowouts and concluding this is a major issue. We don't know the numbers or the stats but we ALL FEAR this issue is the most relevant point. It has been my biggest fear and yeah, I may very well get RettroBands as well but educating is a big part of this too, vetting things out. Tire inspections, care and use are probably the most valuable aspects of success....my opinion.

 

[Joe Hogan]

Rettroband Saved the Day - iRV2 Forums

Just ran across this bit of news that I felt I needed to share. An owner of a 2018 King Aire, one of the heaviest class A diesel coaches, was driving from Atlanta to Las Vegas today when he had a

www.irv2.com

This is the type of experience that is on point. It demonstrates that a potentially life changing event can be turned into an inconvenience. If this is the normal expected results of a steer blow out, then I believe the Rettroband is an excellent solution.

 

[Joe Hogan]

Some interesting Michelin technical information (no mention of milage)

Michelin Technical Bulletin

Service Life for RV/Motorhome Tires

The following recommendation applies to RV/Motorhome tires. Tires are composed of various types of material and rubber compounds, having performance properties essential to the proper functioning of the tire itself. These component properties evolve over time. For each tire, this evolution depends upon many factors such as weather, storage conditions, and conditions of use (load, speed, inflation pressure, maintenance, etc.) to which the tire is subjected throughout its life. This service-related evolution varies widely so that accurately predicting the serviceable life of any specific tire in advance is not possible.
That is why, in addition to regular inspections and inflation pressure maintenance by consumers, it is recommended to have RV/Motorhome tires, including spare tires, inspected regularly by a qualified tire specialist, such as a tire dealer, who will assess the tire’s suitability for continued service. Tires that have been in use for 5 years or more should continue to be inspected by a specialist at least annually.
Consumers are strongly encouraged to be aware not only of their tires’ visual condition and inflation pressure, but also of any change in dynamic performance such as increased air loss, noise or vibration, which could be an indication that the tires need to be removed from service to prevent tire failure.
It is impossible to predict when tires should be replaced based on their calendar age alone. However, the older a tire the greater the chance that it will need to be replaced due to the service-related evolution or other conditions found upon inspection or detected during use.
While most tires will need replacement before they achieve 10 years, it is recommended that any tires in service 10 years or more from the date of manufacture, including spare tires, be replaced with new tires as a simple precaution even if such tires appear serviceable and even if they have not reached the legal wear limit.
For tires that were on an original equipment vehicle (i.e., acquired by the consumer on a new vehicle), follow the vehicle manufacturer’s tire replacement recommendations, when specified (but not to exceed 10 years).

The date when a tire was manufactured is located on the sidewall of each tire. Consumers should locate the Department of Transportation or DOT code on the tire that begins with DOT and ends with the week and year of manufacture. For example, a DOT code ending with “0304” indicates a tire made in the 3rd week (Jan) of 2004.

 

[turbopilot]

And if your decision about using Rettrobands is in anyway economically driven it gets pretty silly in these high end coaches when many people spend $4,100 on custom chrome trim kits. I am going to get them and wait for the data.

 

[Joe Hogan]

Here is some very useful Information and Data from Michelin (no sources of info to date has discussed mileage limitations)

https://www.michelinb2b.com/wps/b2bcontent/PDF/RV_Tires_Brochure.pdf

https://www.michelinb2b.com/wps/b2bcontent/PDF/TB_1001_Runflat.pdf

https://www.michelinb2b.com/wps/b2bcontent/PDF/TB_Service_Life_RV_Tires.pdf

 

[Richpatty]

People overreact and if X had a blowout at 15K miles, people would take that one data point and replace tires at 15K miles. I'm approaching 7 years and 60K miles (knock on wood) and in January will be replacing tires. The Michelin guidance is supposedly good to 7 years (mileage not a factor) and inspect until 10. However, my treads are becoming a factor as well so that needs to be in the equation. I digress...how many data points would be needed to draw a conclusion? People are seeing a sum total of 2 maybe 3 blowouts and concluding this is a major issue. We don't know the numbers or the stats but we ALL FEAR this issue is the most relevant point. It has been my biggest fear and yeah, I may very well get RettroBands as well but educating is a big part of this too, vetting things out. Tire inspections, care and use are probably the most valuable aspects of success....my opinion.

I don’t know many folks….but including Scott on here and two other folks who we camp with have all had front blowouts…. Two of them leaving the road after the blowout. That is really high percentage for me and has me rethinking a lot of things.

 

[Scotttkd2]

Just to add to the discussion but I can't t help but think is also a factor here is designed load of the RV and the selected tires. I have been concerned since getting my KS and finding out that my RV front end is weighted at the upper limit of the 275 size tires it came with. After getting it weighed and checking the Michelin tire air pressure guides I have to run at the full 130psi max cold pressure to support the weight. It seems to me a larger tire capacity speced in would allow for some margin on load capacity. Could that have been a factor in my blowout?? Rears are well under the highest load rating of the 275's but the front are right at the max?? Doesn't make sense to me, and not something the average "consumer" is probably going to look at when shopping for an RV. I believe it is a fair assumption that the vehicle components would be designed to handle the vehicle weight as it is sold to the consumer. Is it common for front end weights to be at the max of the tire ratings that are installed?? I am rambling a bit here but truly interested in hearing from you other newmar owners how your front ends weights to tire max load compare. BTW, for those wondering scale weights indicate I am well under the max vehicle weight, but the front is right at the max.

 

[turbopilot]

Just to add to the discussion but I can't t help but think is also a factor here is designed load of the RV and the selected tires. I have been concerned since getting my KS and finding out that my RV front end is weighted at the upper limit of the 275 size tires it came with. After getting it weighed and checking the Michelin tire air pressure guides I have to run at the full 130psi max cold pressure to support the weight. It seems to me a larger tire capacity speced in would allow for some margin on load capacity. Could that have been a factor in my blowout?? Rears are well under the highest load rating of the 275's but the front are right at the max?? Doesn't make sense to me, and not something the average "consumer" is probably going to look at when shopping for an RV. It is a natural assumption that the vehicle components would be designed to handle the vehicle weight as it is sold to the consumer. Is it common for front end weights to be at the max of the tire ratings that are installed?? I am rambling a bit here but truly interested in hearing from you other newmar owners how your front ends weights to tire max load compare.

Do you have front end load weights for your coach. As I posted earlier my 2018 NA3343 was running right at the limit with that "light" 360 engine in the back.

 

[Scotttkd2]

@Turbo....just edited my post, answer is yes. Scaled GVW is well under design specs, front is right at the top limit and requires the max air pressure to carry the weigh I scaled out at. 130 is also the recommended PSI on the placard at the driver seat

 

[Neal]

And if your decision about using Rettrobands is in anyway economically driven it gets pretty silly in these high end coaches when many people spend $4,100 on custom chrome trim kits. I am going to get them and wait for the data.

You would be silly NOT to get them for obvious reasons but one of which is you have a new coach ordered from NIRVC delivering to Lewisville, etc. etc. Everything aligns for you to get your new coach with them. Quite frankly I don't know why NIRVC doesn't just include them with all coach purchases from them.

I'm due for new tires and with that said I will likely have new fronts installed at NIRVC and bite this bullet. I'm checking to see if the newest and nearest NIRVC is capable and trustworthy of doing so (Washington D.C.) assuming I survive the drive in Washington DC - why would you ever put a dealership here????? Damn! The alternative is Atlanta, which isn't a location that gets great reviews, after my FL Gaffney visit in January as I plan to head south so it aligns.

I'm hoping NIRVC will accept an iPhone 12 Pro Max trade for one RettroBand!

 

[Neemer]

@Neal , you won’t have to dodge DC bullets to get to their location in Manassas. 95 north to PW Parkway. I have no experience with their service department, so I cannot offer any insight there.

 

[MemoriesByTheMile]

As Scott mentioned, I too wonder if the design and weight distribution of the coach are pushing too far with the tire specs.
Then, once a blow out occurs, how is the chassis design impacting the ability of the driver to maintain control of the coach and how is that lack of chassis control then impacting the driver’s ability to maintain control of their bowels?

My theory is that there could be design changes to the chassis to improve control during a blowout. Don’t have anything to back that up besides anecdotal points.

Beyond the control of the chassis, there is also the IMPRESSION of control/pucker factor. An A-Class chassis design, with the driver out in front of the steering wheels (dangling out on a limb beyond the fulcrum point), will feel much more movement ina blowout than a driver who is sitting between the front steering wheel and rear axles.
This pucker factor can also contribute to potential changes in reaction.

The retrobands (regardless of the pricing) can really help with the pucker factor as they prevent the driver (who is hanging beyond the fulcrum) from feeling a huge drop in a blowout. This was one thing I noticed in the video that NIRVC published showing the blowout and how they maintained control. Inside, they didn’t see any big change.

Also, as Scott mentioned, it is bad design to put key chassis controls right around the tire, where those components can be disabled by a blowout. But will RV manufacturers make safety changes to the design? IMO, No they won’t.

The safety factor is one of the top 2 reasons we have a SuperC instead of the A class. Chose to trade indoor space and for safety. (But I do envy the maneuverability of the A class for the same indoor space)

 

[Neal]

More reason to consider LifePO4 batteries to get the weight off these front axles. Since I'm hemorrhaging money and the ER declined my visit to stop the bleeding, may as well continue! I'll be foreclosing on the lawn mower shed next.

 

[Richpatty]

As Scott mentioned, I too wonder if the design and weight distribution of the coach are pushing too far with the tire specs.
Then, once a blow out occurs, how is the chassis design impacting the ability of the driver to maintain control of the coach and how is that lack of chassis control then impacting the driver’s ability to maintain control of their bowels?

My theory is that there could be design changes to the chassis to improve control during a blowout. Don’t have anything to back that up besides anecdotal points.

Beyond the control of the chassis, there is also the IMPRESSION of control/pucker factor. An A-Class chassis design, with the driver out in front of the steering wheels (dangling out on a limb beyond the fulcrum point), will feel much more movement ina blowout than a driver who is sitting between the front steering wheel and rear axles.
This pucker factor can also contribute to potential changes in reaction.

The retrobands (regardless of the pricing) can really help with the pucker factor as they prevent the driver (who is hanging beyond the fulcrum) from feeling a huge drop in a blowout. This was one thing I noticed in the video that NIRVC published showing the blowout and how they maintained control. Inside, they didn’t see any big change.

Also, as Scott mentioned, it is bad design to put key chassis controls right around the tire, where those components can be disabled by a blowout. But will RV manufacturers make safety changes to the design? IMO, No they won’t.

The safety factor is one of the top 2 reasons we have a SuperC instead of the A class. Chose to trade indoor space and for safety. (But I do envy the maneuverability of the A class for the same indoor space)

I agree on all points…as I see it as the responsibility of making RVs less likely to have a blowout on the front falling on the manufacturers. They need to over-engineer the axel and put on beefier tires. How many times have we all seen front axels close to their weight limit?