Solar system bust

[AndreandElisha]

Our solar installer is now 1200 miles away but is helping us troubleshoot by chat. Unfortunately neither of us are electrically inclined.
We figured out how to charge our batteries with the generator. We have a converter that we were told to leave unplugged unless plugged into shore power. However, once the converter was plugged in, we were able to charge the batteries with the generator up to about 13.3. So, while not ideal, we are figuring out ways to not feel like we are tent camping with flashlights at night...lol.
We are also looking for ways to expand our battery bank. Our current set up is under the stairs and can only fit 2 31's and the chassis battery. We are looking at moving it to a basement compartment next to the stairs.
We bought the Victron off of Craigslist, as it was a "really good deal" and it just happened to be a multiplus 3000. We are quickly learning that we have soooo much to learn!

 

[flyboy013]

Why did the installer have you keep the charger unplugged while not on shore power? I would think that it would be plugged in all the time so that when you have shore/generator power, it will immediately do its job.

I'm still concerned about the statement: "when we have sun we can run basically everything in the RV except the AC. But as soon as the sun goes down, we have almost zero battery power." This would imply that the solar system isn't charging the batteries either.

I understand that you are not electrically inclined, but you're going to have to learn some basic electrical skills, such as how to measure voltage with a multimeter. Its not too difficult and there are lots of YouTube videos to guide you through it. If you don't already have one, you can get a basic one for as little as $10.

Once you have a multimeter, you can determine what voltage the solar system is outputting and what voltage the batteries are seeing. If they aren't the same, then there is an electrical disconnect between the two. If they are the same (or close), then the problem may be the batteries are not holding a charge or you're using more power than the batteries are designed to provide.

 

[Neal]

We recently had 3 385 watt solar panels installed along with a victron multiplus 3000 watt inverter. Before, we had battery power for lights and used the generator for 110 power if not plugged in. Batteries held a decent charge and charged fairly quickly with the generator.
Now, when we have sun we can run basically everything in the RV except the AC. But as soon as the sun goes down, we have almost zero battery power. We can no longer charge the batteries with the generator, we have to actually run the RV engine! And we still have to run the generator if we want any kind of power. And I am talking 1 reading light. Everything else is completely shut off. Microwave unplugged, inverter off, converter unplugged, we don't even leave the water pump on.
We have a 2004 Georgetown XL 346 which has the chassis battery and 2 12v house batteries under the stairs. We would like to increase our house batteries but not sure where to put them. Plus, I don't feel that adding more batteries is going to fix the problem.

Can you attach pictures of your solar controller area so we can see the wiring setup? Did they install cutoff switches that may be OFF by chance? On mine, as designed by @Chuggs there are two cutoff switches, one between the panels and the controller, one between the controller and the battery bank. If either of these are OFF you're not charging your batteries. It's odd that while getting solar (PV) you're able to do things but the batteries aren't supplying when PV is gone. It seems the circuit between controller and batteries is disconnected. Maybe also include a picture of your battery bay.

 

[AndreandElisha]

Why did the installer have you keep the charger unplugged while not on shore power? I would think that it would be plugged in all the time so that when you have shore/generator power, it will immediately do its job.

I'm still concerned about the statement: "when we have sun we can run basically everything in the RV except the AC. But as soon as the sun goes down, we have almost zero battery power." This would imply that the solar system isn't charging the batteries either.

I understand that you are not electrically inclined, but you're going to have to learn some basic electrical skills, such as how to measure voltage with a multimeter. Its not too difficult and there are lots of YouTube videos to guide you through it. If you don't already have one, you can get a basic one for as little as $10.

Once you have a multimeter, you can determine what voltage the solar system is outputting and what voltage the batteries are seeing. If they aren't the same, then there is an electrical disconnect between the two. If they are the same (or close), then the problem may be the batteries are not holding a charge or you're using more power than the batteries are designed to provide.

He said to keep the converter unplugged so we didn't cause a loop effect. ?? And we are picking up a voltmeter tomorrow and see if we can try to pinpoint what's going on.

 

[Neal]

Here is a voltmeter I use I got from Amazon I really like.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000O3LUEI/?tag=rvf01-20

Just know the limits of the voltmeter as I tried testing the current coming from the solar with it and kept blowing the fuse. The voltmeter has a 10A limit and you can get some crazy good power coming off those panels so be aware of what you're testing and the current that it can be flowing in what you choose. A clamp meter is another good option.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Z3988K3/?tag=rvf01-20

@Chuggs can probably steer you better on what to use based on what you're testing than I can. I have both a voltmeter and clamp meter.

 

[Chuggs]

Ahhh....Interesting, disconnect the converter to avoid a LOOP. That has told us a lot...

It appears they have installed your Solar/Inverter system...not as a Solar System, per se...but as a Solar Generator. I'm guessing here...but I have seen this used, generally as a short cut when adding an Inverter.

The batteries power the inverter, and the coaches existing shore cord is plugged into a receptacle on the output of the inverter. You are told to disconnect the converter because the inverter is taking 12vdc from the battery, then changing it to 120vac...your power cord takes this...thinking it is shore power...and converts it back to 12vdc to charge your batteries. The converter and inverter are shy of having 100% efficiency...so all you do is loose power by looping the energy thru two devices that have limited efficiency. It is a way to avoid using an automatic transfer switch, and you have probably avoided a dedicated inverter sub panel, your inverter doesn't have an AC input for shore power pass thru... These additional features all make the system behave without a lot of operator input.

I think @Neal has the right idea. Your solar should be wired to the batteries. It is code to have current protection on the wiring...and for maintenance switches to isolate the system. Look for fuses, switches, or Marine DC breaker switches. If one of these tripped...or was turned off...your solar system is inert. When turning the system ON...it is best practice to begin with both the Photovoltaic side, and battery side turned OFF. You then connect the battery side. This gives your solar controller power to turn it's brains on...so to speak. After that...turn on the Photovoltaic side...and it will condition that power accordingly to charge the batteries. If you are disconnecting the system...do the reverse. Turn off PV first...then battery.

You are working with a system that uses a work around. It is basically allowing you to use the Inverter...on all of your houses AC wiring...by pluging in the original wiring into the inverter vs a shore receptacle. If you unplug from the inverter..turn your converter back on...and fire up the generator or plug back j to a shore power receptacle... you should be able to recharge the batteries.

So, there is going to be a lot of manipulation involved each time you want to use the shore power or generator power vs off grid using solar&battery to power thru the inverter with the converter disabled.

It now makes more sense...the only way you can charge your battery is thru the alternator with the engine running...and solar either has not been sufficient or has tripped and is not charging at all.

 

[AndreandElisha]

Can you attach pictures of your solar controller area so we can see the wiring setup? Did they install cutoff switches that may be OFF by chance? On mine, as designed by @Chuggs there are two cutoff switches, one between the panels and the controller, one between the controller and the battery bank. If either of these are OFF you're not charging your batteries. It's odd that while getting solar (PV) you're able to do things but the batteries aren't supplying when PV is gone. It seems the circuit between controller and batteries is disconnected. Maybe also include a picture of your battery bay.

 

[AndreandElisha]

Ahhh....Interesting, disconnect the converter to avoid a LOOP. That has told us a lot...

It appears they have installed your Solar system...not as a Solare System, per se...but as a Solar Generator. I'm guessing here...but I have seen this used, generally as a short cut when adding an Inverter.

The batteries power the inverter, and the coaches existing shore cord is plugged into a receptacle on the output of the inverter. You are told to disconnect the converter because the inverter is taking 12vdc from the battery, then changing it to 120vac...your power cord takes this...thinking it is shore power...and converts it back to 12vdc to charge your batteries. The converter and inverter are shy of having 100% efficiency...so all you do is loose power by looping the energy thru two devices that have limited efficiency. It is a way to avoid using an automatic transfer switch, and you have probably avoided a dedicated inverter sub panel, your inverter doesn't have an AC input for shore power pass thru... These features all make the system behave without a lot of operator input.

I think neal has the right idea. Your solar should be wired to the batteries. It is code to have current protection on the wiring...and for maintenance switches to isolate the system. Look for fuses, or Marine DC breaker switches. If one of these tripped...or was turned off...your solar system is inert. When turning the system ON...it is best practice to begin with both the Photovoltaic side, and battery side turned OFF. You then connect the battery side. This gives your solar controller power to turn it's brains on...so to speak. After that...turn on the Photovoltaic side...and it will condition that power accordingly to charge the batteries. If you are disconnecting the system...do the reverse. Turn off PV first...then battery.

You are working with a system that uses a work around. It is basically allowing g you to use the Inverter...on all of your houses AC wiring...by pluging in the original wiring...the the inverter vs the shore receptacle. If you unplug from the inverter...turn your converter back on...and fire up the generator, you should be able to recharge the batteries. So, there is going to be a lot of manipulation involved each time you want to use the generator vs shore power vs off grid using solar&battery to power thru the inverter with the converter disabled.

It now makes more sense...the only way you can charge your battery is thru the alternator with the engine running...and solar either has not been sufficient or has tripped and is not charging at all.

Yes, we have to unplug the solar when we plug in to shore power. We had to have another guy install the disconnect for the solar panels so Andre didn't have to climb on the roof and physically unplug the panels to do something. How do we go about getting a more efficient sysyem?

 

[Chuggs]

Well...the solar should have disconnects...but you should only have to disconnect the solar If removing the batteries for maintenance. The solar system should be wired to the batteries...and operate regardless of how you are managing the rest of the rv's electrical circuitry. It is a battery charging device...it should always remain connected...and it will do it's job when the sun hits the panels.

The Inverter setup is a work around...and it works, and has saved you money...but requires additional jockeying by switching plugs and disabling converter, etc...

There are a couple of ways to skip all that...but they require an upgrade to your scheme. The output from the inverter gets fed to a new sub panel and you no longer plug the shore cord into an inverter powered receptacle. The circuits you plan to use off grid get moved from your main panel to the sub panel. The converter remains on the original main panel...it doesn't recieve power from the inverter...so you do not have to disconnect. To save energy, when connected to shore power...you can add an auto transfer switch that automatically connects to shore power if present...and if not...connects to the inverter output. The transfer switch powers the inverter subpanel.

In lieu of the auto transfer switch...you could remove the inverter and converter you have...and replace them with an all-in-one unit. They have the transfer switch and converter built-in. Magnum MS2812 or MSH3012...or a Victron Multiplus. These are more expensive systems but have all those automatic features that work without you having to manipulate anything.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Our solar installer is now 1200 miles away but is helping us troubleshoot by chat. Unfortunately neither of us are electrically inclined.
We figured out how to charge our batteries with the generator. We have a converter that we were told to leave unplugged unless plugged into shore power. However, once the converter was plugged in, we were able to charge the batteries with the generator up to about 13.3.

Just one big point on the converter. If you plug in the converter when under the inverter power you will have established a closed loop. This means the batteries will drain trying to charge themselves.

I run a circuit( if nothing but an extention cord to the converter from the generator or grid power post to charge batteries. Sounds like the installer did half a job. Make sure the inverter is wired to the house where the generator, or land line will not be in the circuit at the same time or the inverter will be toast, unless it is a UPS type system.

My intent is to have a supply line from generator to charge the battery bank using converter when needed. I never hook the 115vac house line to the converter after I have installed a inverter. Because I am old school, there is nothing to program as transfer switches are not in my system. I plug the house plug into outlets I have installed in the location of the cord. I can then choose what power source I will use.

I will go further if you desire more input and options, but It will be hard if you are listening to many people so I will sit in the background till you get your answer or you ask me.

Now on to solar:

Get your multi meter out.
measure voltage on the controller at the battery posts.( this is the solar controller connections )
No voltage means that your system was never connected to the battery bank or the DC breaker that should have been installed close to the
battery has tripped or is bad.
Measure voltage on controller at the panel posts.
During the day this will be the MPP (Maximum power point) voltage of the panel. If the voltage is Open circuit voltage of the panel the controller is not working. If the voltage is close to bank voltage then the controller has not woke up, or is not working. if the voltage is at MPP the controller is charging the battery bank.

If the system was installed right then you will find breakers or switches to turn off both panels and batteries from the controller. It is important that the batteries are switched on and the controller is getting battery voltage before the panels are connected/switched on. The controller can fail if the panel wiring is turned on first.