Tip Starting the engine before raising the jacks

[Neal]

@MapNerd I think you'd get cool points if you started extending the jacks when pulling into your site. Jus'sayin...

 

[ARD]

They suggested starting the engine before raising the jacks.

Spartan also recommends this and it has helped me a great deal along my travels. Sometimes when sitting a bit, the secondary sit tank can get real low and so if you lift jacks first, you may have issues airing up. By leaving jacks down, you give the secondary air tank time to fill. The alarm is annoying, but it does make a difference.

 

[ARD]

Yes I do. I just wished Freightliner was on the same page. Newmar has changed the sequence but Freightliner does not agree. One builds the chassis. One builds the house.

FL is not in conflict with Newmar. You leave jacks down to give the secondary air tank time to build up pressure, then when airs up, raise jacks. You will lose some air so let it build again. Turn off motor and bring slides in.

 

[skychs]

FL is not in conflict with Newmar. You leave jacks down to give the secondary air tank time to build up pressure, then when airs up, raise jacks. You will lose some air so let it build again. Turn off motor and bring slides in.

The conflict that I was referring to was the sequence for jacks then slides vs slides then jacks. FL still recommends jacks first. Since my last conversation with FL I have been starting the engine with the jacks down to build up the pressure. I was in the coach again this weekend and it worked like a charm.

 

[Neal]

Good discussion that all can learn from. Thanks for sharing.

 

[stang37]

I guess I'm confused as to why FL would have input to jack use. When I toured the FL factory I didn't see any jacks installed on any FL chassis. My understanding is Newmar installs the HWH system and jacks on the chassis. HWH will tell you Newmar put the jacks on if you go to them. HWH works on their components, they will not modify the system as installed by Newmar. I state this based on a traveling partner having issues with his coach height after leveling and him going to HWH faculty, questioning HWH on system operation and jack placement. I could be wrong but confident I didn't see jacks on FL chassis at the factory.

 

[ARD]

The conflict that I was referring to was the sequence for jacks then slides vs slides then jacks. FL still recommends jacks first. Since my last conversation with FL I have been starting the engine with the jacks down to build up the pressure. I was in the coach again this weekend and it worked like a charm.

Ah gotcha. Well, I like to air up with jacks down, but I'm not bringing my slides in til I'm aired up like Newmar taught me at CPU.

 

[CaptainGizmo]

Yikes.

Not sure if any of you are getting confused or what, but...

The jacks are HYDRAULIC and have nothing to do with air.

The primary reason to start the engine while using jacks or slides is because of the current drain the hydraulic pump motors place on the batteries.

It seems some of you are mixing the two systems. The reason of running the engine to inflate the airbags is simply because the air compressor runs off the engine and will replenish the tanks faster after the airbags use the air to refill themselves to get back to ride height.

 

[skychs]

Yes it's all very confusing. It's good to know WHO installs the HWH. I did not know that.

So .... when ready to leave the campground. 1.start engine (if possible) to fill air tanks. 2. raise the jacks (HWH). 3. wait for the coach to rise (full airbags). 4. bring in the slides. 5. disconnect shore power. Live happily ever after. I got it.

 

[ARD]

It seems some of you are mixing the two systems. The reason of running the engine to inflate the airbags is simply because the air compressor runs off the engine and will replenish the tanks faster after the airbags use the air to refill themselves to get back to ride height.

Well, I used to have problems airing up. The gauges would say I had the correct pressure, but when I did a visual check, I was not aired up. Spartan maintains that by leaving the jacks down while airing up, it helps the secondary air tank fill especially if you have been sitting for a bit. I don't know all the mechanics, but Spartan does instruct people to air up with jacks down and I can verify that it has eliminated my airing up issues.

EDIT: At the beginning when I was having issues with airing up, Spartan would also instruct me to cycle through the jacks. I don't really get the connection, but evidently there is one. I know that when I raise my jacks while my engine is running, I watch the gauges and can feel the air pressure decrease in both tanks. But I am curious now why there is a connection. Will call Spartan to inquire and post response.

 

[RKins]

@ARD "At the beginning when I was having issues with airing up, Spartan would also instruct me to cycle through the jacks. I don't really get the connection, but evidently there is one."

If you have HWH jacks, there is (at least was) an interconnect between the HWH system and air tanks. When you "auto level" it dumps your tanks as part of the leveling process. If you interrupt the "store" cycle of the HWH system you may not be able to air up - I learned the hard way. So that being said, if you have problems airing up, press the "Store" button on the HWH panel and let it complete the cycle (even if already stored) - it releases the connection that dumps the tanks and allows them to fill.
On my old coach if I try to start the coach while the jacks are down I get blasted with a horn from under the dash. I put the key in the ACC position when using the HWH system.

 

[CaptainGizmo]

Well, I used to have problems airing up. The gauges would say I had the correct pressure, but when I did a visual check, I was not aired up. Spartan maintains that by leaving the jacks down while airing up, it helps the secondary air tank fill especially if you have been sitting for a bit. I don't know all the mechanics, but Spartan does instruct people to air up with jacks down and I can verify that it has eliminated my airing up issues.

EDIT: At the beginning when I was having issues with airing up, Spartan would also instruct me to cycle through the jacks. I don't really get the connection, but evidently there is one. I know that when I raise my jacks while my engine is running, I watch the gauges and can feel the air pressure decrease in both tanks. But I am curious now why there is a connection. Will call Spartan to inquire and post response.

ARD,

Again, a bit of confusion that I hope to clarify for you, and help you see the connection between your AIR BAGS, JACKS, and AIR TANKS.

Just because you "AIR TANKS" are FULL, DOES NOT MEAN your "air bags" are inflated to the proper ride height! (For those who don't understand air bags, they are part of the suspension...like springs...and can be varied in pressure to bring a rig up to the proper height for driving.)

For example, when you park and auto-level, your tanks will all be FULL.
The leveling system will DUMP the air out of the AIR BAGS.
This action does NOTHING to the stored air in the tanks.

When you leave, and hit "STORE" or "TRAVEL" on the leveling system, the jacks will come up.
At the same time, air is used FROM THE TANKS to re-inflate the air bags.
Depending on how much residual air is in the tanks (and you had no slow leakage), the tanks may not have enough pressure and volume to inflate the bags fully...or may be very slow.

THIS IS WHY THE RECOMMENDED PROCEDURE IS TO START THE ENGINE. This runs the main air compressor to put air back into the air tanks as the leveling system is using air to re-inflate the air bags.

I hope this helps.

 

[Neal]

It's very interesting all of the opinions and techniques of when to extend the slides and now for the first time in four years I'm hearing techniques on how to extend or retract the slides. @CaptainGizmo you had my attention for something you said which was to have the engine running when running the jacks due to the electrical demand on the hydraulic pumps. Until now I thought yeah, that makes sense, I never have the engine running when I run jacks up or down. Today I realized that I'm always on shore power when running the jacks as that's after I've deployed or retracted the slides so I think that point is moot. It could be something of interest when boondocking but I think we're always on shore power when it's time to deal with jacks.

There are different jack systems and different requirements. Most of you I think have HWH jacks. I have Equalizer. I don't think I could air up with the jacks down, the shuttle valve is open and the air will escape, it will not fill the air tanks from what I recall. For my specific setup I have to have jacks up to air up (prior to installing HWH Active Air which completely changes the game for my procedures). But for a typical coach with an Equalizer jack system I don't think this is possible. For anyone out there (@RandyB - do you have equalizer) maybe you can clarify.

I've never had an issue airing up after raising the jacks, i.e. airbags empty. The compressor will inflate the bags and continue to run until the pop off valve indicates air tanks full. I don't understand how it matters if your air tanks are full at the start of airing up vs. not, for those that have this capability. I personally would rather have a slower fill to ensure the airbags are seated and positioned properly. Ever had one that had to reset itself, it sounds like a cannon going off! You think you blew an airbag.

Anywhoo, the thought just occurred to me on the power part of this discussion and that I'm personally always on shore power when it's time for leveling.

 

[Neal]

I guess you could disconnect everything after bringing the slides in and then raise the jacks so that scenario could still hold water. I'm in ready to drive mode with jacks up before I do the disconnects so I am backed by shore power anytime I'm running jacks. Good point though, something to think about, just not something that affects me in my workflow.

 

[MapNerd]

Curious, if you turned on the engine to run the compressor to push more air into the tanks to replace the air that the bags are taking from the tanks as the coach moves to ride height *whew*...why then turn the engine off for the 3 minutes it takes to bring in the slides only to turn it back on again so as to drive away?

my engine is on when slides are going in, because I needed it on to run the compressor to replenish the tanks as the bags are filled and I’m not going to turn it off for 3 minutes to bring in the slides.

my engine is in when the slides are going out because I am supposed to be on air when I out the slides out and my jacks don’t operate unless the engine is on, meaning I can’t dump air and lower the jacks unless the engine is on, and before doing that, my slides have to be out.

so...why turn off the engine for the 3 minutes? What does it matter if the engine is on when the slides are moving? If anything, I’d think it’s better because you have the alternator running, contributing to the available energy to take the load

 

[Neal]

What does it matter if the engine is on when the slides are moving?

My coach will not allow slides to move with the ignition on.

 

[MapNerd]

Who would have thought there were so many different ways to program a slide controller?

 

[skychs]

My slides will not operate with the engine running either.

So ... when arriving at a campground ... engine off. Shore power. Open slides. Lower the jacks. Open a cold beverage. .

 

[RandyB]

... For anyone out there (@RandyB - do you have equalizer) maybe you can clarify...

Yes mine has the Equalizer system. I have not tried starting the engine to air up with jacks down. Now that I've been asked, I will try it and report back.

I have encountered another sequence of events that I recently discovered, regarding airing up and jacking. I became a little impatient and did not wait for the Equalizer system to fully go through its retraction process. Once the jacks were up, I powered down the Equalizer and started the engine. Gauges went up per normal, but the coach was still not at ride height. Hmmm. So, I deployed the jacks again to dump the bags (nothing to dump) and start over. Once the jacks were down, I then raised them up (auto) and waited for the entire process to finish. Then started the coach and up it goes. The lesson learned is to wait out the ENTIRE jack retraction cycle. Apparently that last step in the automatic process is to allow the air bags to refill. I now wait for the Equalizer to shut down and turn off it's power light before starting the engine. Once you drive away with no air in the bags, you'll never forget again. Don't ask me why. Bouncy-Bouncy-Bouncy

 

[Neal]

@RandyB the issue you had above is the shuttle valve. At the end of the jacks being raised a 12V signal is sent by Equalizer to the chassis system to close the shuttle valve so it can air up. I had one that was sticking which they replaced under warranty, not a big deal, but I had times where I would not air up. The resolution to that is to cycle the jacks as you did and one other procedure that FL would tell you to do over the phone that I don't want to share here as it is to be done only when and as directed if you can't air up.

The shuttle valve setup in the Ventana is why I think we cannot air up with the jacks down.

Each coach and each model year seem to have very different setups, oddly. I don't think anyone can really say do this or do that in a broad sense. There are different systems and different cutouts Newmar and the Chassis vendors put in place which seems to be constantly changing.