Question Walk through for preparing a vehicle for flat towing

[Hillman]

We use a Demco dolly, towing a VW Passat sedan. Backing up with the Passat on the Dolly does not work well or for very far but a short distance in a pinch is helpful.
Backing up with the Dolly empty is relatively simple. Typically I unload the sedan and back the Dolly into a back in campsite.(Prefer drive thru campsites leaving the car on the Dolly but back in works)
We have used this combination for over three years and 25k. Works well.

Given the choice I'd prefer a Flat Tow. Just have not been able to determine a good setup that works for me.

My concern was I heard you can't back up at all. So not even a nudge, if I have to readjust? Then I see maybe 10 feet, maybe a couple feet. I'm fine with that, really. I can live with swooping around when I screw up too much. I don't need to back anything up a long ways, I just didn't understand if you could back up like a foot or two in a pinch. Thanks.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

My concern was I heard you can't back up at all. So not even a nudge, if I have to readjust? Then I see maybe 10 feet, maybe a couple feet. I'm fine with that, really. I can live with swooping around when I screw up too much. I don't need to back anything up a long ways, I just didn't understand if you could back up like a foot or two in a pinch. Thanks.

You “probably” can back up a foot or two without an issue; “maybe” 5-10 feet in a pinch. “Probably” and “maybe” are the operative words here. I’m sure the dolly and tow bar manufacturers are being conservative with their recommendations for liability reasons. So, you “probably” don’t need to live in fear of having the dolly/towed vehicle back up a foot or two but the recommendation is to not make a practice of it.

That said, if damage were to occur to the towed or towing vehicle because you backed it up, just understand that no one but you will be “responsible.” Life is full of choices and each one needs to be measured before making it.

Please also understand that when you ask for guidance or recommendations on RVF, those of us who respond feel obligated to give you the best advice we can. We all want to see more folks enjoy the RV lifestyle and never like telling someone something they really don’t want to hear. However, if we didn’t give you the benefit of our experience in an honest way, we would be doing people a disservice.

Good luck on making the right choice for you and your family.

TJ

 

[Hillman]

You “probably” can back up a foot or two without an issue; “maybe” 5-10 feet in a pinch. “Probably” and “maybe” are the operative words here. I’m sure the dolly and tow bar manufacturers are being conservative with their recommendations for liability reasons. So, you “probably” don’t need to live in fear of having the dolly/towed vehicle back up a foot or two but the recommendation is to not make a practice of it.

That said, if damage were to occur to the towed or towing vehicle because you backed it up, just understand that no one but you will be “responsible.” Life is full of choices and each one needs to be measured before making it.

Please also understand that when you ask for guidance or recommendations on RVF, those of us who respond feel obligated to give you the best advice we can. We all want to see more folks enjoy the RV lifestyle and never like telling someone something they really don’t want to hear. However, if we didn’t give you the benefit of our experience in an honest way, we would be doing people a disservice.

Good luck on making the right choice for you and your family.

TJ

I absolutely appreciate the honest answers from folks with experience.

 

[CaptainGizmo]

My concern was I heard you can't back up at all. So not even a nudge, if I have to readjust? Then I see maybe 10 feet, maybe a couple feet. I'm fine with that, really. I can live with swooping around when I screw up too much. I don't need to back anything up a long ways, I just didn't understand if you could back up like a foot or two in a pinch. Thanks.

Here’s the problem with backing up with a FLAT TOW...
It’s all about “caster”. When a vehicle is pushed backwards, the front wheels will immediately flip to one side. Yes, I’ve tried it, and I couldn’t back up more than a couple feet before it happened.

The caster angle is set for forward travel. Even if a car is allowed to freely roll backwards, the wheels will have a tendency to turn. But, when being pushed, it amplifies the force, because the TOAD isn’t able to go in the path dictated by the wheels; instead, it’s forced by the tow-bar. So, the damage is likely to be at the weakest link, probably the tow-bar struts. I’m sure the front-end of the TOAD won’t be happy either, but I kinda doubt it would break before the tow-bar. But that’s not the point.

Our “emergency plan” is something I’ve never heard anyone talk about, other than from utter non-sense. IF we have to back up, with my TOAD (Raptor), the plan will be to start it in order to give power to the steering, then have my wife HOLD THE STEERING IN PLACE as I back up. HER job is to HOLD the steering just as it is. And MY job is to not make any radical turn changes with the coach. This will allow the coach and TOAD to back up in the same line and shouldn’t cause any problem.

I know this was a bit off the question of towing, but since you had a concern about backing up, I thought it would help to hear my thoughts.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Here’s the problem with backing up with a FLAT TOW...
It’s all about “caster”. When a vehicle is pushed backwards, the front wheels will immediately flip to one side. Yes, I’ve tried it, and I couldn’t back up more than a couple feet before it happened.

The caster angle is set for forward travel. Even if a car is allowed to freely roll backwards, the wheels will have a tendency to turn. But, when being pushed, it amplifies the force, because the TOAD isn’t able to go in the path dictated by the wheels; instead, it’s forced by the tow-bar. So, the damage is likely to be at the weakest link, probably the tow-bar struts. I’m sure the front-end of the TOAD won’t be happy either, but I kinda doubt it would break before the tow-bar. But that’s not the point.

Our “emergency plan” is something I’ve never heard anyone talk about, other than from utter non-sense. IF we have to back up, with my TOAD (Raptor), the plan will be to start it in order to give power to the steering, then have my wife HOLD THE STEERING IN PLACE as I back up. HER job is to HOLD the steering just as it is. And MY job is to not make any radical turn changes with the coach. This will allow the coach and TOAD to back up in the same line and shouldn’t cause any problem.

I know this was a bit off the question of towing, but since you had a concern about backing up, I thought it would help to hear my thoughts.

Excellent point, @CaptainGizmo! This is our unsaid policy as well. Further, our plan includes having the toad driver put it in reverse and gently apply a little throttle to keep rearward tension on the tow bar.

TJ

 

[MapNerd]

Crazy thought and to be clear - I DONT KNOW IF THIS IS A DECENT IDEA OR NOT, I HESITATE TO EVEN POST IT - but assuming your class C has enough reserve power, could you upgrade the hitch to an 8k?

 

[Joe Dutchstar]

@MapNerd there is allot more to tow weight than the hitch. Think Brakes, Suspension, Frame, etc. These trucks are designed to a specific set of tasks. Consequently, these trucks are engineered to accomplish the known set tasks (limits) for the lowest cost. The frame is no larger than necessary, the brakes are no larger than necessary, the transmission, the cooling, all have been designed for this specific set of tasks. The weight of the vehicle is closely managed to provide the best economy and load for the least cost.
If you exceed those limits you are a test pilot....hope it works out for you and those around you....

 

[Hillman]

Crazy thought and to be clear - I DONT KNOW IF THIS IS A DECENT IDEA OR NOT, I HESITATE TO EVEN POST IT - but assuming your class C has enough reserve power, could you upgrade the hitch to an 8k?

We actually did look at a Class C we were thinking of buying, mainly because it had the full arctic package, and the owner was the head of fleet maintenance for a city. He had upgraded the hitch, added beefier rear suspension, and a few other structural additions and used it to pull a monster truck. Looked in great shape, but I'm always concerned when people make really really out there modifications. I mean, who knows, it may really be a safe improvement, but still I passed on buying it, just too much that I personally don't have the knowledge to really verify. In my younger, pre-family days, I'd take the risk. I'm not risking them now though.

 

[Hillman]

UPDATE: After further study, we were able to pick up a gently used Honda Civic for pulling on a dolly. Now, the question is, after looking at dozens of options, ranging from truck and travel, Class C, and Class A, we have ruled out the truck and travel trailer, and are deciding between two RVs in our budget range, a 2008 Ford Sunseeker with 35k miles, in excellent mechanical condition (the owner is a mechanic and our mechanic checked it out), with a 5000lb hitch, ebrake controller already installed, and no leaks, water damage, nothing but normal cosmetic wear, and the usual features inside. 2 year old tires, good 10 ply. However, it has the added Arctic package, and we live in New England.
The other is a 2007 Winnebago Voyage 35L, appears to be in excellent condition, even less cosmetic wear, and nothing mechanical that I could find however we can't have our mechanic check it because it's too far away, and I know nothing about the current owner's mechanical abilities, but they have records included. Of course, the Voyage is much nicer inside, bigger fridge, bathroom, etc. 2 slides vs. 1 on the Class C. I know it's hard to compare apples to oranges but we like both of them. The added benefit of the over cab bed for my 10 year old vs. him sleeping on the push button opening couch in the Voyage is nice, but again, the Voyage has nicer features. Same 5000lb hitch. Everything appeared tight, but I'm not a mechanic. The biggest thing we noticed were 10 year old tires, but little wear on them. Our state doesn't have a tire date limit for inspection, but still, 10 years. My wife is leaning toward the Voyage, but the knowns of the Sunseeker, mechanically, are pulling me to that side. There is only a 7k difference in price, with the Voyage being more, of course.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

The biggest thing we noticed were 10 year old tires, but little wear on them.

RV tires rarely wear out; they do “age out” at 5-7 years, however. State inspection “tire date limits” have no relationship to safety, whether you have them or not. Outdated tires are subject to failure at much higher rates than newer ones. If you buy the Voyage, you will need to replace the tires, so factor that into your budget and what you offer for the coach.

TJ

 

[MapNerd]

Might as well make it a $10k difference in price, because that voyager NEEDS new tires. 10 years is way too old for tires carrying your loved ones, condition be damned.

 

[Hillman]

RV tires rarely wear out; they do “age out” at 5-7 years, however. State inspection “tire date limits” have no relationship to safety, whether you have them or not. Outdated tires are subject to failure at much higher rates than newer ones. If you buy the Voyage, you will need to replace the tires, so factor that into your budget and what you offer for the coach.

TJ

I was just reading that somewhere else. A quick phone call and the seller has already agreed to take the cost of the tires off from the asking price because I brought that up, thanks. I wouldn't drive anything on 10 year old tires anyway. $500 each! I'm not used to that.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

I was just reading that somewhere else. A quick phone call and the seller has already agreed to take the cost of the tires off from the asking price because I brought that up, thanks. I wouldn't drive anything on 10 year old tires anyway. $500 each! I'm not used to that.

Glad you caught that. Don’t scrimp on tires; buy top quality ones as your family’s safety is riding on them.

Have you also checked the age of the chassis and house batteries? Those also age out at 5-6 years; sooner if they have not been properly maintained. They are kind of pricey too.

TJ

 

[Hillman]

Glad you caught that. Don’t scrimp on tires; buy top quality ones as your family’s safety is riding on them.

Have you also checked the age of the chassis and house batteries? Those also age out at 5-6 years; sooner if they have not been properly maintained. They are kind of pricey too.

TJ

Thanks, I hadn't checked either of those, but I will.

 

[Hillman]

Another update, we purchased the 2007 Winnebago Voyage 35l today. Can't pick it up for a couple weeks, but we were able to negotiate all new tires and all new batteries and still got the price down. It was on consignment at a dealership, and the dealership is throwing in an oil change and detailing, so we feel pretty good about it. The problem now is narrowing down where we want to go this summer, we only have two months for vacation. Surprisingly, that's not as much time as it sounds like.