MOD Water pump upgrade with accumulator tank

[Neal]

Today was the day to do one last task on my list on my 2017 Newmar Ventana prior to the next trip. I've been wanting to upgrade my 3.4 gpm water pump to a 5.3 gpm pump to see if it can better handle water running in multiple locations such as taking a shower while the washer is running and not impact either. I also wanted to add an accumulator tank as at times the master bathroom faucet will pulsate due to the low demand on the water pump. Having researched accumulator tanks and watched various YouTube videos on it I'm surprised it's not installed standard in all RV's, at least luxury RV's. It seems to handle low pressure demands much better and also extend the life of the water pump.

I changed my REMCO 3.4 gpm aquajet with a REMCO aquajet ARV 5.3 gpm model. Certainly a beefier and slightly larger pump yet remains within the water pump controller power limits and has the same pressure output max so no risk of blowing pipes. As to the accumulator, also went with REMCO's accumulator, looks like a nice quality product. Picked up some fittings and braided water line and off I went.

Spent about 4 hours today removing the wet bay panel and swapping pumps. I guess I see why the accumulator is not standard in all as I really didn't have a good place to mount it. So it's sitting towards the back near the low point drain valve. While the job isn't yet complete, I have about an hour of work, everything is reconnected so at least I could test the pump and it works great. Also something of note is that when you use an accumulator tank the water pump will always continue running about 5-10 seconds after demand for water is off so it recharges the accumulator tank.

While I'm glad the job is done I want to ask the community for a favor. Any time I ever mention doing something that requires taking the wet bay panel off or tell someone it's not hard. Please begin an immediate intervention, or worse, just stop me. I never want to deal with this wet bay panel again and of course all my little mod's to it such as drainmaster automatic gates, SeeLevel, sani-con, dual house filter, etc. Bring me the Advil!!!!

 

[BGMAC]

I’d be eager to know if it helps or not. In many cases the issue of loosening water flow in one place like the shower when the washer is running is usually how the pluming is configured. 1/2” pipe can only handle so much water.

 

[redbaron]

When I added the 2nd water pump and accumulator to my system it made a huge difference. We now have city water equivalent all the time. After visiting a few parks that had poor pressure, I adjusted my city water pressure to 20psi, so that I live off of the fresh water tank and only fill with city water.

The 2nd pump solved a problem I was having with toilets flushing while showers being taken, or dishwasher usage, etc. Most of the time the pumps are idle when it just a single usage, and I never hear them inside like I used to on a single pump without accumulator.

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

Today was the day to do one last task on my list on my 2017 Newmar Ventana prior to the next trip. I've been wanting to upgrade my 3.4 gpm water pump to a 5.3 gpm pump to see if it can better handle water running in multiple locations such as taking a shower while the washer is running and not impact either. I also wanted to add an accumulator tank as at times the master bathroom faucet will pulsate due to the low demand on the water pump. Having researched accumulator tanks and watched various YouTube videos on it I'm surprised it's not installed standard in all RV's, at least luxury RV's. It seems to handle low pressure demands much better and also extend the life of the water pump.

I changed my REMCO 3.4 gpm aquajet with a REMCO aquajet ARV 5.3 gpm model. Certainly a beefier and slightly larger pump yet remains within the water pump controller power limits and has the same pressure output max so no risk of blowing pipes. As to the accumulator, also went with REMCO's accumulator, looks like a nice quality product. Picked up some fittings and braided water line and off I went.

Spent about 4 hours today removing the wet bay panel and swapping pumps. I guess I see why the accumulator is not standard in all as I really didn't have a good place to mount it. So it's sitting towards the back near the low point drain valve. While the job isn't yet complete, I have about an hour of work, everything is reconnected so at least I could test the pump and it works great. Also something of note is that when you use an accumulator tank the water pump will always continue running about 5-10 seconds after demand for water is off so it recharges the accumulator tank.

While I'm glad the job is done I want to ask the community for a favor. Any time I ever mention doing something that requires taking the wet bay panel off or tell someone it's not hard. Please begin an immediate intervention, or worse, just stop me. I never want to deal with this wet bay panel again and of course all my little mod's to it such as drainmaster automatic gates, SeeLevel, sani-con, dual house filter, etc. Bring me the Advil!!!!

I'm not sure they didn't build the house around that panel.

 

[Rich W.]

Today was the day to do one last task on my list on my 2017 Newmar Ventana prior to the next trip. I've been wanting to upgrade my 3.4 gpm water pump to a 5.3 gpm pump to see if it can better handle water running in multiple locations such as taking a shower while the washer is running and not impact either. I also wanted to add an accumulator tank as at times the master bathroom faucet will pulsate due to the low demand on the water pump. Having researched accumulator tanks and watched various YouTube videos on it I'm surprised it's not installed standard in all RV's, at least luxury RV's. It seems to handle low pressure demands much better and also extend the life of the water pump.

I changed my REMCO 3.4 gpm aquajet with a REMCO aquajet ARV 5.3 gpm model. Certainly a beefier and slightly larger pump yet remains within the water pump controller power limits and has the same pressure output max so no risk of blowing pipes. As to the accumulator, also went with REMCO's accumulator, looks like a nice quality product. Picked up some fittings and braided water line and off I went.

Spent about 4 hours today removing the wet bay panel and swapping pumps. I guess I see why the accumulator is not standard in all as I really didn't have a good place to mount it. So it's sitting towards the back near the low point drain valve. While the job isn't yet complete, I have about an hour of work, everything is reconnected so at least I could test the pump and it works great. Also something of note is that when you use an accumulator tank the water pump will always continue running about 5-10 seconds after demand for water is off so it recharges the accumulator tank.

While I'm glad the job is done I want to ask the community for a favor. Any time I ever mention doing something that requires taking the wet bay panel off or tell someone it's not hard. Please begin an immediate intervention, or worse, just stop me. I never want to deal with this wet bay panel again and of course all my little mod's to it such as drainmaster automatic gates, SeeLevel, sani-con, dual house filter, etc. Bring me the Advil!!!!

The first thing I thought of when I started reading this was: “How did he find a convenient way to get the wet bay panel off?”. Having been there, I can attest that it is far from easy. The second thing was “where are the pics?”

 

[Neal]

No pics, could be traumatizing. Imagine those that can't handle seeing intestinal surgery....so yeah, I thought about it, but it's an ugly area regardless.

Thanks @redbaron I didn't realize yet all of the benefits but the instant water pressure before the pump even engages has multiple benefits as you pointed out. Toilets, dishwasher, washing machines, etc. all have instant water when demanded. Cool!

One thing I forgot to mention. Something that is critical for a job like this where you need to get fittings removed from water lines and then insert them later such as winterization connections, house water filter connections, etc. is a heat gun. It is near impossible to separate or install these fittings without first heating up the tubing. When heated it makes it so much easier and probably will also give you a better seal on the reattach. I carry a heat gun in my coach all the time as it's also used for heat shrink tubing, heat shrink electrical fittings, etc. And yesterday when I struggled with getting fittings disconnected I remembered this trick.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

As @redbaron said concerning two pumps! It definitely helps with high demand applications, my second pump is for hot water only! For my accumulator my choice was AO Smith expansion tanks, I realize my place to put such extravagant build is much greater than you guys with your Newmar MHs, but well worth it!!! For higher volume my pumps are on a 24 volt system. That works for me, but Neal putting in a higher volume pump will definitely help! Let us know how things work out while doing your laundry! My problem is a low volume shower head won't start the on demand WH I use. So I am still looking for solutions!

 

[sheridany]

One thing I forgot to mention. Something that is critical for a job like this where you need to get fittings removed from water lines and then insert them later such as winterization connections, house water filter connections, etc. is a heat gun. It is near impossible to separate or install these fittings without first heating up the tubing. When heated it makes it so much easier and probably will also give you a better seal on the reattach. I carry a heat gun in my coach all the time as it's also used for heat shrink tubing, heat shrink electrical fittings, etc. And yesterday when I struggled with getting fittings disconnected I remembered this trick.

And melting the snow during a winter wonderland extravangaza!

 

[AbdRahim]

Any time I ever mention doing something that requires taking the wet bay panel off or tell someone it's not hard. Please begin an immediate intervention, or worse, just stop me.

Haha! I asked this question at the service center, when coach was new. I was duly warned. I saw someone remove this on a video. The coach was quite old and of another brand. Thanks for reinforcing the warning. Hope I never need to get in there.

Much simpler solution, honorable friend - t
Do laundry after take shower. Sionara!

 

[osuallen]

Spent about 4 hours today removing the wet bay panel and swapping pumps.

After having contemplating removing that panel to be able to get to my water pump easier, I think 4 hours is lightning fast. I quickly decided it was easier to work blind behind the panel, than to remove it.

 

[Neal]

It's not hard (shoot me) but my mods to that area just make it more complex. I finished it up yesterday, took about 30 minutes to get the remaining clamps on, etc. All done. I do find it a little odd the noise that the REMCO 5 gpm makes while running, I may have to take a video and send to REMCO but my guess is that it's normal. I just hope for a silent pump and that's not going to happen, also, it's new, we'll see after some use and priming, etc.

 

[redbaron]

remco pumps are noisy. I was surprised too.

 

[Neal]

I did a quick google, not that I'm changing this, but just to see if there is a quiet pump. Found this one by Quietex. What's interesting though are the pictures of the inlet filter orientation. I asked previously on the forum if the filter should be up or down, I'd think down for sediment to drop but their pictures show it at the top. Not saying that's right as it's marketing pictures, but noticed it.

 

[AbdRahim]

Did you have to drill new holes for the Remco? Was the original pump Shureflo?

 

[Neal]

Did you have to drill new holes for the Remco? Was the original pump Shureflo?

Yes - self tapping screws. This is the one reason reaching under the panel to replace the pump would be nearly impossible. I did it long ago with my first pump upgrade and didn't get screws in all four holes. Having the panel off allows the pump to be mounted properly and the pump has anti-vibration grommets built in. Moot as the REMCO is loud, but is what it is.

 

[Neal]

So I have an issue now with water flowing in reverse out of the city water line when disconnected. Either I have something mounted in reverse or it's back pressure from the REMCO accumulator tank I just installed. I'm digging into the manual to see if maybe I have something incorrect with flow direction either on the new water pump or the accumulator and discovered this. Yeah, read the manual last right? However, I've had no issue with pressure to date so it appears to be working fine but this warning is concerning.

 

[BGMAC]

So I have an issue now with water flowing in reverse out of the city water line when disconnected. Either I have something mounted in reverse or it's back pressure from the REMCO accumulator tank I just installed. I'm digging into the manual to see if maybe I have something incorrect with flow direction either on the new water pump or the accumulator and discovered this. Yeah, read the manual last right? However, I've had no issue with pressure to date so it appears to be working fine but this warning is concerning.

View attachment 26895

It sounds like you are overcoming the check valve on the city water connection with to much pressure.

 

[Neal]

It sounds like you are overcoming the check valve on the city water connection with to much pressure.

Thanks. I was wondering if this was the accumulator tank causing back pressure vs. a line swapped. I could swear the lines are correct but I'd have to pull the wet bay panel off again which I really don't want to do. I can reach in to the shrader on the accumulator, I may try to discharge pressure on that and see what happens.

For anyone else running an accumulator, are you getting water out of the city water line when not connected?

 

[Neal]

Just had dinner and good thing I had some time to collect thoughts before ripping things apart. IF (all caps) I had lines reversed the water pump would not be working to draw water and send it up to the house. The water pump works fine, everything in the coach works fine water wise. What's causing the water to come out of the city water line and per my other thread seem like it's flowing backwards through the house filters is what I need to address. First I'll try reducing pressure in the accumulator, if that doesn't work I may have to remove it which would be painful but per REMCO an accumulator is not supposed to be used with a (their) variable speed pump. It is actually working great in the house doing what it's designed to do, it doesn't seem to be over pressured. I just need to figure out the backflow situation. Maybe installing a check valve would be an idea as well to prevent the water from flowing in reverse if I don't have one in place as is.

 

[osuallen]

Neal - I take issue with the "extreme" pressure statement. If the pump is set to shut off at say 65 psig, it will shutoff at 65 psig whether or not a bladder tank is installed or not. The timing of when 65 is reached is altered, but a correctly operating control will shut off at 65. Not sure where this "extreme" pressure statement comes from. The addition of a bladder tank will affect the system pressure profile as faucets/uses are turned on and off. The pump is variable speed, so it speeds up and slows down to maintain a given pressure as demands vary. The bladder tank alters the pressure profile, but should not normally negatively affect a pump.

As you probably know a bladder or accumulator tank has a rubber bladder in it. The water is on one side of the bladder and air on the other. As water fills the water side, the bladder expands into the air side and the air pressure rises as the air volume decreases (P1/P2=V1/V2) until the air pressure=water pressure=pump shutoff pressure. When a faucet opens the air pressure forces water out the faucet until the pressure drops below the pump activation pressure of the pump. Without a bladder tank, this pressure drop is nearly instantaneous as all the piping is near ridged (no expansion) (yeah PEX has some give so a few milli-seconds delay). After the faucet shuts off the pump will run a few extra seconds to build pressure back in the system to the pump shutoff pressure.