CA strikes again with CARB ACT

[osuallen]

@turbopilot as a professional HVAC engineer for 40 years, I know all of what you posted. None of this is new and earth shattering, it has been described to sound revolutionary. Also a lot of it is talking about improving HP performance in very cold temperatures - which most RVers tend to avoid.

 

[osuallen]

I recently replaced 30 tons of air conditioning in my home (6 units). My previous units where 14 Seer Trane units that where high tech at the time and very efficient. They had 3 stages of power to save energy.

The new units are 24 seer inverter heat pumps that are infinite number of stages as it scrolls up and down (like a CVVT). The interior fans are also infinite stage.

The end result is my power bill was cut drastically (45% in the summer months) comparing the July 2024 to the August 2024 bills. August was actually a hotter month, and I was home for more of the month, whereas I was gone all of July. During July the house was set to 76F, and August spent most of the month at 68F, with daily temperatures over 100F.

The point of all of this is that technology does exist to use less power and provide better cooling. The units on our RVs are about the oldest design possible and have no efficiency. Think about how Newmar has ducted the air. The intake and return are in the same place, separated by just a few inches.

If the return was placed on one side, and air was drawn across the room, it would provide better circulation, and require less run time and save energy.

The whole idea of CARB is to reduce the need for emissions, and by reducing the need for energy we can get there much faster.

I would like to see a bill that would make HVAC perform better and allow me to keep the coach 68F year round, no matter how many times the dog has to go out. And it would be an even better bill if the HVAC ratings specified that I could keep the blinds up to see the scenery.

Yes HVAC equipment has experienced large improvements since the early-mid 90's when your 14.5 SEER units were installed. BTW: heat in = heat out. the improved air circulation by proper designing the supply & return air systems improves human comfort, but has very little effect on system energy consumption unless the original design was very, very, wrong.

 

[turbopilot]

Yes HVAC equipment has experienced large improvements since the early-mid 90's when your 14.5 SEER units were installed. BTW: heat in = heat out. the improved air circulation by proper designing the supply & return air systems improves human comfort, but has very little effect on system energy consumption unless the original design was very, very, wrong.

We are talking about RV systems. I don't think I have ever seen an RV with a central HVAC system for both heating and cooling, much less a high efficiency system. Even if the AC units in the roof have heat pumps they are typically very loud and inefficient. Most RV's cool from old fashioned, inefficient roof mounted AC units and heat form even more inefficient propane fire forced heating systems. The hope for change being pushed by LightShip is a central HVAC with quiet air flow providing efficient heating and cooling. That is what is "revolutionary" change for an RV.

Here is a link to a detailed review of the HVAC system.

 

[Rich W.]

Don’t know if this has been discussed yet, but…

https://www.cummins.com/engines/x15n-2024?sfid=7015G000001Vn8JQAS&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=paid-social&utm_campaign=corp-na-brand-power_onward&utm_content=x15n-re-single_image-learn_more-en-a&dclid=CPfevZme-YkDFbCcjggdAngl4g

Maybe a light at the end of the tunnel? Maybe for MA anyway…

 

[Scooterfan]

Yup...let the market figure it out. I am grateful for this forum. Happy Thanksgiving...Blessings

 

[turbopilot]

Yup...let the market figure it out. I am grateful for this forum. Happy Thanksgiving...Blessings

This looks like a great new internal combustion engine. But there is a problem. CARB is banning (progressively) all internal combustion engines by 2036. This new engine is already a dinosaur by CARB standards.

The CARB ban is not about pollution generated by internal combustion engines. We are far past that now. CARB simply wants all vehicles not to have any tailpipe emission profile except water in the case of ICE using hydrogen. Of course over 50% of the electricity is generated by fossil fuels in California but that little detail is not considered.

California is on a crusade to limit your choices. The "market" is fake because the state is picking the winners not the citizens.

There was an interesting news story on local California television about diesel engine's role in supporting California infrastructure. Large diesel trucks and heavy equipment primarily support all electrical, water, sewer and gas infrastructure in the State of California. There is virtually no EV vehicles available to support those infrastructure needs. But those vehicles are also swept up in the CARB ICE bans facing the progress 2036 deadline. Even if EV's were available for those heavy vehicles there is no way to keep them charged supporting remote infrastructure like remote power lines, canals and pipelines.

This whole CARB ICE ban is heading for a big crash. RV's are just the first to get hit.

 

[Neemer]

These fiats by the unelected need to cease and desist.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

And it's gonna get crazier!

 

[redbaron]

Land man and Billy Bob Thornton had the greatest rant that cleared up the whole basis of clean energy and it directly relates to carb:

 

[ARD]

Don’t know if this has been discussed yet, but…

https://www.cummins.com/engines/x15n-2024?sfid=7015G000001Vn8JQAS&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=paid-social&utm_campaign=corp-na-brand-power_onward&utm_content=x15n-re-single_image-learn_more-en-a&dclid=CPfevZme-YkDFbCcjggdAngl4g

Maybe a light at the end of the tunnel? Maybe for MA anyway…

Just saw a video of a 2025 Newell recently with a Cummins X15N.

 

[sanda]

All this fact checking is getting out of hand. Just like statistics and polling, real facts are hard to come by and won’t be available in main stream media or by anyone making a profit to provide. Often the real facts are the so called conspiracy theories or those that negatively affect the narrative required.

Common sense says that EV is not going to be a solution anytime soon for the masses.

Common sense says that carbon based reasoning is just stupid. (Man affects only 1.6 molecules out of the 100,000 that make up our air. We are spending so much effort to reduce it from 1.6 to 1.59 and eventually 1.57

The process of making an EV scorches the earth.

Lithium mining uses more petroleum than it saves.

A free market will always bring the best solution. Greedy entrepreneurs actually want a profit and only get it by bringing value to consumers.

Forced policy and forced consumers never make for the right or long term solution. Never.

Lithium mining doesn't use much petroleum when they are using slave labor to produce it.

 

[redbaron]

Lithium mining doesn't use much petroleum when they are using slave labor to produce it.

True but then it has to be transported to the USA on petroleum powered ships.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

I think the view of what slavery in the modern world is is off base! The real concern should be the irreparable damage to the environment, and water quality, that mining the metals that make up those miracles do!!! If you don't understand what I'm saying, maybe you should investigate some!!!

No matter, using less energy, and green is bull ####

 

[Rich W.]

Just saw a video of a 2025 Newell recently with a Cummins X15N.

If the N is really limited to 500hp that would be a grossly underpowered coach if it was in the same weight class as current offerings.

 

[newmarokie]

Rich,
Down at the bottom of that link that you posted it shows different series of the same motor. The productivity series is rated to 605hp and 2050 ft/b of torque. It explains that the X15N is offered in different series based on need. The same block is used with different internals depending on the power needs.

 

[ARD]

If the N is really limited to 500hp that would be a grossly underpowered coach if it was in the same weight class as current offerings.

I believe I am mistaken. Now to find where I saw it.

 

[Joe doggs]

I read somewhere,or perhaps had a dream that carb and the powers that be in California have softened their stance and were proposing an implementation delay……can anybody clarify if that is correct?? Happy thanksgiving to all

 

[Rich W.]

I read somewhere,or perhaps had a dream that carb and the powers that be in California have softened their stance and were proposing an implementation delay……can anybody clarify if that is correct?? Happy thanksgiving to all

Maybe they are starting to realize that they just might be out of a job next time around.

 

[sheridany]

I read somewhere,or perhaps had a dream that carb and the powers that be in California have softened their stance and were proposing an implementation delay……can anybody clarify if that is correct?? Happy thanksgiving to all

I read they met and meeting again in December.

UPDATE 11/20/2024: RV Industry Association Government Affairs staff, along with several of our motorhome manufacturer members, met on Tuesday afternoon (11/19/24) with the California Air Resources Board (CARB) staff overseeing the Advanced Clean Trucks (ACT) regulation. The meeting was requested by CARB to discuss in more detail the RV industry comments submitted as part of the ACT amendments proceeding in October. They also wanted to hear more directly from our members about what they are being told by the chassis manufacturers about why they are unable to deliver products.

CARB staff reviewed the various regulations that are impacting the motorhome industry at present, including the Omnibus Low NOx rule, the ACT, and the Advanced Clean Fleets rule. Following their presentation, a wide-ranging discussion was held with our members. We repeated our belief that an exemption or a delay in implementation from the ACT would be of greatest benefit to allow the industry to continue to provide motorhomes to dealers and customers in the state. Of note, CARB said it does have the authority to create exemptions to the regulation. This is different than what CARB has said on other regulations when they stated that allowable exemptions are set by the law which created the rule, not by CARB.

While no final resolution was attained, all sides agreed to continue talking and another meeting is being arranged in early December. The RV Industry Association will continue to explore all its options to find an equitable solution.

 

[turbopilot]

While no final resolution was attained, all sides agreed to continue talking and another meeting is being arranged in early December. The RV Industry Association will continue to explore all its options to find an equitable solution.

The solution is simple. The new EPA administrator should simply revoke the waiver under the Clean Air Act that allows CARB (a State agency) to preempt Federal Laws (ie Clean Air Act).

See this link for details. Elections matter.