Keystone Cougar 24RDS 1/2 ton 5th

[pintail85]

I am looking for some advice. I have a 2019 Ram 1500 with a 5'6" bed and Ram Boxes. Towing capacity for my truck is 11,200lb. The Keystone Cougar 24RDS is 7,300lb dry.

1.Has anyone hauled this model with a truck similar to mine with a 5th wheel(slider) and Ram boxes? Is this combination possible?
2. Kicker: I also want to pull a 1,200lb aluminum boat and trailer behind the camper.
3. If I am able to pull this off, would I hate life while traveling? (I would rate my trailer towing ability at 8 or 9 out of 10).

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[NGC 613]

I do not want to be anywhere on the road near you. I don't think anyone but Class A drivers trained to pull two trailers should be doing so. Tandems are best left to the professionals. Heck for that matter most states don't allow what your wanting to do anyway.
Now to answer your question. It is not about what you can tow at this point. It is about your weight capacity and stopping power. You don't have either one. Especially the stopping power. What is the capacity of that truck? I'm guessing 1500 lbs. So the pin weight of that Cougar has to be under that for sure. Say the camper has a pin weight of 1000lbs and you load the truck with the wife and yourself, plus a few other items. Now add the weight of that 5th wheel hitch, 100lbs if not more. Bam you over weight already and that 1/2 ton is going to be crying for sure. Now you want to break that truck by having it pull a boat also. The answer is in no way would you or should you do this. That 1/2 ton is not a heavy duty truck by no means and was not designed to do what you want to do at all.
Bottom line, good luck with that and no don't do it.

 

[pintail85]

Understood. So what are your thoughts on the camper only. I don’t mean this to sound smart, but if this camper is a 1/2ton 5th why would it not work on my truck? As long as it’s under capacity.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

I am looking for some advice. I have a 2019 Ram 1500 with a 5'6" bed and Ram Boxes. Towing capacity for my truck is 11,200lb. The Keystone Cougar 24RDS is 7,300lb dry.

1.Has anyone hauled this model with a truck similar to mine with a 5th wheel(slider) and Ram boxes? Is this combination possible?
2. Kicker: I also want to pull a 1,200lb aluminum boat and trailer behind the camper.
3. If I am able to pull this off, would I hate life while traveling? (I would rate my trailer towing ability at 8 or 9 out of 10).

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

Dry weight means nothing. GVW is your number. the boat and trailer 1200#? 20% of GVW will likely be your pin weight. A good CAT scale will tell you what the real pin weight is. You can't really fudge the payload of the truck, it is a good way of bending the axle.

I double pull. most coastal states don't allow it but most of the other ones do. As you describe your intentions those that do should allow it. Check the states that you plan on traversing for there Motor vehicle rules on towing. I would rather see someone double pulling that see an appendage on the back so one can carry...... wait for it!!!!..... "one more thing".

for the record: I have towed a 6800#GVW fifth and doubled with a 1000# GVW utility trailer with my 1500 RAM tow capacity is listed as 10500# No issues. I don't drive like some others do and value my truck enough to consider recommendations at 80% capacity, look at my numbers.

 

[pintail85]

Thanks for the info Rolling Chaos and Kevin Pem. My truck is rated for 1800lb payload. I have a friend that has a scrap metal recycling facility with scales. I’ll swing by the in the next few days and weigh my boat and trailer. I’m not exactly sure of the boat and trailer but I’m guessing the tongue weight is around 150lbs on the boat trailer.
Also, is it a “thing” to load the camper a certain way to adjust the pin weight numbers, like load aft of the axle or closer to the axles?

 

[pintail85]

Kevin, have you ever attempted to haul a tandem trailer setup, both being bumper hitch?

 

[Gronk]

There are a couple of things that stand out to me.
One is "Towing capacity for my truck is 11,200lb" You would have one hell of a time trying to pull that much with your 1500 and do not have payload capacity for a trailer that heavy.
Two is "The Keystone Cougar 24RDS is 7,300lb dry". Do you plan on not putting anything in the trailer? Things like propane, battery, maybe some water? Dry weights mean nothing when it comes to towing. That is the weight the trailer had at the factory BEFORE anything is added. You need to concentrate on the GVW. Then figure about 25% will be on the back axle of the truck.
Far as two trailers, I have done that more than a few times. Easy as can be. You just won't be able to back up more than about 10'. You would need to check with each state you plan on towing doubles in and abide by their laws.

 

[pintail85]

Gronk, so using the 20% rule, if my max payload is 1800#, my GVW for the camper would need to come in at around 9000#. Correct?

 

[NGC 613]

Gronk, so using the 20% rule, if my max payload is 1800#, my GVW for the camper would need to come in at around 9000#. Correct?

Try and use this calculator. It may help a tad. 5th Wheel Weight Calculator
Fill it out with a hedge for the unknown being over a slightly. That should help you figure it out better. I don't have all your numbers so I'm going to be off on this . From what I just did you have an available 40lbs you can load when your completely running dry weight and that is just with the 5th wheel camper. We haven't gotten to the boat yet.
If I'm even close to your correct truck and camper weights and capacity , you can't even load yourself and your over.
Like I said though with out knowing all your truck and campers information completely I won't be 100% right. For instance is it a 4x4 or rear wheel drive? What V8 engine does it have? That is information only you will have.

 

[FL-JOE]

I am looking for some advice. I have a 2019 Ram 1500 with a 5'6" bed and Ram Boxes. Towing capacity for my truck is 11,200lb. The Keystone Cougar 24RDS is 7,300lb dry.

1.Has anyone hauled this model with a truck similar to mine with a 5th wheel(slider) and Ram boxes? Is this combination possible?
2. Kicker: I also want to pull a 1,200lb aluminum boat and trailer behind the camper.
3. If I am able to pull this off, would I hate life while traveling? (I would rate my trailer towing ability at 8 or 9 out of 10).

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a Cougar 24RDS a pull behind camper and not a 5th wheel? If it is then there should be zero discussion about what state this is legal in and what states it isn't. This type of combination is illegal in all states, as it should be (unless something has changed in the past 10 years).

Now if you had a 5th wheel as your initial trailer and then a ball hitch on the back of that you would be legal in some states, depending on your total length.

 

[NGC 613]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a Cougar 24RDS a pull behind camper and not a 5th wheel? If it is then there should be zero discussion about what state this is legal in and what states it isn't. This type of combination is illegal in all states, as it should be (unless something has changed in the past 10 years).

Now if you had a 5th wheel as your initial trailer and then a ball hitch on the back of that you would be legal in some states, depending on your total length.

I just did a search and it comes up as a 5th wheel and he did say it was.

 

[Gronk]

Gronk, so using the 20% rule, if my max payload is 1800#, my GVW for the camper would need to come in at around 9000#. Correct?

Not sure where you got 20% from, but most that I have experienced are closer to 25% pin weight. That puts your 9000 pound trailer at about 2250 on the pin. When you start looking seriously at trailers that are supposed to by "half ton towable" there are actually very few that qualify. Just remember, the salesman has no skin in the game once you are off their property even if they say "Sure, your truck will handle this trailer just fine". Their job is to sell as many trailers as they can.

 

[pintail85]

I really appreciate the info from you all. It sounds like I would be better off with as smaller bumper pull camper. Something around 5,000 lbs.

The comment from FL-Joe has me confused. Is it really illegal to pull 2 trailers with a ball hitch? I've done a small amount of research and I've seen when some states it is illegal to triple pull unless the first trailer is 5th wheel, but most of the info doesn't specify that the first trailer has to be 5th wheel in a 2 trailer setup.

 

[Amoque]

These conversations always draw me in because there is so much to consider. I'm pretty conservative by nature, always want to feel comfortable as I travel, and always carry backup redundancy (see what I did there?) equipment in Mississippi adequate to get me through a record-breaking blizzard in Maine. Others feel confident carrying nothing but a Bic lighter and a shoestring for backup in the case of an emergency. I always consider what will happen if I take a wrong turn and have to backup, find my intended campground overbooked, or run into a "can't say no" deal on a piece of furniture or a cast-iron shop tool. I leave room in my itinerary, my GVW, and my budget for many contingencies I've never needed. I've been in situations where all my planning wasn't enough and I've seen times when a shoestring was the ideal solution.

I caution you to be careful, because life is precious and I hate hearing the horror stories when things go wrong, but if it's legal where you're going, and you're comfortable pulling it, I say that's the standard. MY comfort level doesn't impact laws or you, so... go for it. If I see you on the road, I'll say a quick prayer for us both and hang way back until my turnoff, but that doesn't mean your acting irresponsibly, it just means you're doing something I wouldn't be comfortable with. I think it's good we have different standards and tastes - it means you'll find a spot at your favorite theme park and I'll find one at my favorite fishing hole.

In all sincerity I say, check with the authorities for legality, check with your dealerships for capacity, and your insurance company for coverage. If you're comfortable, you're good. Enjoy.

 

[FL-JOE]

My mistake pintail85, I was assuming the Keystone model you were talking about was a pull behind, not a fiver. I haven't researched it for about 10 years, but I would be shocked if any State would allow you to pull two ball hitch trailers together. There would be literally zero control or recovery if you had to swerve or if you were attempting to drive on the highway in moderate cross winds. If you have ever traveled and noticed commercial doubles and triples (pulling 2 trailers and pulling 3 trailers) you will notice the fifth wheel plate combinations involved.

After looking up your model of fiver it appears that Keystone does market those as 1/2 ton truck towable. The key would probably be in how it is loaded and how much is actually loaded.

 

[NGC 613]

pintail85
If you ran that calculator I posted you probably already know your answer. I hope you'll report back and let us know about that and the laws. Best wishes.

 

[Gronk]

I have seen ball to ball doubles. IF the trailers are loaded properly and the lightest one is in the back they are pretty stable. The laws are constantly changing so you need to determine what you need to do. Just an example, in Minnesota the law was the first trailer could only be 28' or less and had to be a semi type trailer and overall length is 65'. A semi type trailer by definition is a trailer that DOES NOT have an axle in the front. Now the law says first trailer has no length limit but must have a king pin and the overall length is 70'. Best thing I can tell you is to call the State Patrol in what ever state you are planning on pulling doubles in. Also check your state to make sure you have the proper driver's license.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Thanks for the info Rolling Chaos and Kevin Pem. My truck is rated for 1800lb payload. I have a friend that has a scrap metal recycling facility with scales. I’ll swing by the in the next few days and weigh my boat and trailer. I’m not exactly sure of the boat and trailer but I’m guessing the tongue weight is around 150lbs on the boat trailer.
Also, is it a “thing” to load the camper a certain way to adjust the pin weight numbers, like load aft of the axle or closer to the axles?

It is a thing. I think the range you can play with is 15% to 25% . You call the RV a camper, If it is for camping maybe an older 5th is a good fit for you. My 26 ft Alpinelite has a GVW of 6800# Todays trailers are much heavier than the old ones. So on mine 20% is 1360# pin weight at full capacity, that I never reach. The advantage of double pull in my case is 800# of my stuff is in a bumper pull so is not in the fiver. I do have to figure in the 80# on the tail of the fiver to make sure I have enough pin weight. That's a clue, @pintail85

 

[Kevin D Pem]

I really appreciate the info from you all. It sounds like I would be better off with as smaller bumper pull camper. Something around 5,000 lbs.

The comment from FL-Joe has me confused. Is it really illegal to pull 2 trailers with a ball hitch? I've done a small amount of research and I've seen when some states it is illegal to triple pull unless the first trailer is 5th wheel, but most of the info doesn't specify that the first trailer has to be 5th wheel in a 2 trailer setup.

Don't know of a single state that allows pulling two bumper pulls. I had the same question years ago in AZ and called the MVD, The gal on the other end of the phone almost laughed at me. She said only if I wanted a big fine.

 

[NGC 613]

Don't know of a single state that allows pulling two bumper pulls. I had the same question years ago in AZ and called the MVD, The gal on the other end of the phone almost laughed at me. She said only if I wanted a big fine.

Unless something has changed, east of the Mississippi I'm not sure there is even one state that allows doubles of any kind other than commercial rigs. 5th wheel ,bumper pull , nada.