Question Hughes Autoformer install?

[Joe Hogan]

Looking at the Hughes Autoformer with a Surge protector incorporated into unit. For those with the Unit, does in make sense to hard wire this into the RV in place of the optional factory surge protector?

The Autoformer has a replaceable surge protector module, and consequently we would carry a spare Module, just in case.

In that way there would not be the worry of having a very expensive Unit sitting unprotected, plugged into the Shore power.

Thoughts..

 

[Alan_Hepburn]

Be aware that there are RV parks out there that prohibit the use of autoformers - if it's permanently installed in your RV then they have no way of knowing if you're using one.

 

[Neal]

So far in my travels since 2017 I haven't experienced any rules regarding autoformers. I internally mounted mine and it's always inline. At times I bypassed it but it was never the cause of the issue. My philosophy is you won't know when you need it, or when you do it's too late (brown out has occurred). I shorted out my first one from a storm I didn't know was coming and it was submerged in a puddle as the pedestal was a low point sadly. It's nice to just get it done, installed, and out of the way and let it do its thing. I have had a campground or two that has had high voltage and when your ATS sees 130V I think it is then it will shutdown your incoming power. That is probably the more likely concern. I recommend it and recommend internally mounting it if you can.

Amazon.com: Hughes Autoformers RV220-50-SP, Voltage Booster with Surge Protection, 50 Amp: Automotive

Buy Hughes Autoformers RV220-50-SP, Voltage Booster with Surge Protection, 50 Amp: Power Inverters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Rain cover if needed:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08L3TVCY4/?tag=rvf01-20

 

[DennisT]

Personally, if I were going to do an interior one I’d wire it before the one the coach already has.

Protect the original and technically would have two just in case.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

So does anyone know if this is an auto transformer, an isolation transformer, or a boost converter of some kind.

 

[DennisT]

Looks like it is a voltage booster when incoming is low. Would help protect things if voltage dipped a bit.

One thing I noted, at least in the description on Amazon, was no mention of turning off power if voltage gets too low, high, open ground, etc.

There will be a limit where it can’t boost any further and it would appear you could have a brown out like power coming into the coach.

I’d see if they have one that also cuts power on issues along with boosting if it just drops a bit.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Dennis, I already went searching for information. It looks like a non-isolating transformer. That is what an auto transformer is. A isolated transformer would be much larger.

So what I am seeing is a buck transformer that may have a scheme to gradually boost voltage automatically.

So to give an informed opinion I would need that information and I couldn't find it. So if someone wants to test continuity between the in and out leads we would know if it is isolated.

The reason this is important is things that offer spikes, typically the spike is stopped by transformers. This is not true with an auto transformer.

So now you have my reasoning, but not my opinion!!!

My system is totally isolated from shore power. This is done by powering everything via inverter, even if I am hooked up to the grid. I only charge batteries with the grid, when I need to.

 

[AbdRahim]

Looks like it is a voltage booster when incoming is low. Would help protect things if voltage dipped a bit.

One thing I noted, at least in the description on Amazon, was no mention of turning off power if voltage gets too low, high, open ground, etc.

There will be a limit where it can’t boost any further and it would appear you could have a brown out like power coming into the coach.

I’d see if they have one that also cuts power on issues along with boosting if it just drops a bit.

That is what an EMS does. Hughes has the Watchdog, which allows you to also monitor your amp draw on each line via bluetooth.

 

[DennisT]

That is what an EMS does. Hughes has the Watchdog, which allows you to also monitor your amp draw on each line via bluetooth.

Yeah, I have the watchdog with the auto power off instead of just the surge protector version.

 

[Joe Hogan]

Here is a nice description of an Autoformer with Watchdog installation.

Ultimate RV Electrical System Protection - Hughes Autoformer & Power Watchdog

 

[Joe Hogan]

I’ve committed to the modular design the RVGEEKS used. I like that each piece can be isolated individually by just unplugging it. Additionally I purchased spare surge protection modules to avoid on road “emergencies “ . Thank you all for your thoughts!

 

[Rich W.]

Your inverter probably already performs the function (load support) of an autoformer. If so a basic surge protector is all you need.

 

[Neal]

Your inverter probably already performs the function (load support) of an autoformer. If so a basic surge protector is all you need.

Hughes Autoformers will boost the incoming voltage 10% if needed. They offer different products so it is important to choose the right one for your needs. Here is the overview of the Autoformer:

The RV Park Problem - Hughes Autoformers

hughesautoformers.com

 

[Rich W.]

Hughes Autoformers will boost the incoming voltage 10% if needed. They offer different products so it is important to choose the right one for your needs. Here is the overview of the Autoformer:

The RV Park Problem - Hughes Autoformers

hughesautoformers.com

That’s also what load support does from the inverter depending on the model. Provides extra power during low voltage conditions. I don’t know what inverter is in a 2023 Dutch Star, but its current technology with Magnum and Victrom.

Magnum: “MSH models add a Load Support feature. Load Support allows incoming AC to synchronize with the inverter’s output and uses additional power from the batteries to power loads.”

Victron: Power Assist: “the bidirectional converter of the MultiPlus operates in parallel with the AC input and will add current (with energy from the battery) whenever demand exceeds the capacity of the supply.”

Something to check before buying an autoformer, especially for newer coaches.

 

[Neal]

While I'm not smart on that my only thought of is the power coming into the ATS switch. If it's not within params it can shutoff and I think the goal is getting good power, i.e. brown out conditions handled, before the ATS to prevent a disconnect and subsequent AGS start for those with that available and configured.

 

[Joe Hogan]

We had upgraded to a 3000W Hybrid Magnum Inverter in the last RV. The Magnum Hybrid Inverter (MSH) does have Load Support.
The lesser Magnum models do not appear to have Load Support.

Here is the User manual Language regarding Load Support

3.2.3 Load Support While in the Standby Mode and the charger is enabled, the MSH3012RV inverter/charger has the ability to work in parallel with the incoming AC source (utility or generator power) to power the AC loads using current from the batteries. During the Standby mode, the current and voltage from the AC source and the current used by the AC load are continually monitored. When loads on the inverter output exceed the maximum available current from incoming AC source, the Load Support feature is automatically activated. The Load Support feature causes the MSH3012RV inverter/charger to reduce/stop the battery charging operation and begin using current from the batteries along with the maximum available current from the AC source to ensure the AC loads are powered. The Load Support feature turns off once the load demand decreases and there is suffi cient current from the incoming AC source; when this happens, the battery charger is again activated and begins charging the batteries. For the Load Support feature to automatically function, the following needs to occur: 1. An AC source (utility power/AC generator) must be connected. 2. The inverter must be enabled (INV LED is on). 3. The battery voltage must be ≥0.5 volts above the LBCO setting (10 VDC default). Info: If using a remote that is able to show the load support status and the unit is in load support, the status will indicate either “Load Support AAC” or “Load Support VDC”. Info: The load support feature of the MSH3012RV can provide 60 amps on its AC output. For example, if the input AC source is 40 amps, load support can add up to 20 amps; if the input is 50 amps, load support can add up to 10 amps of additional current. Info: The load support feature is monitored thru the AC HOT 1 IN terminal. When the AC HOT 1 IN is the only input connected to the incoming AC source, then load support is provided to the loads connected to both the AC HOT 1 OUT and AC HOT 2 OUT terminals However, if the AC source is connected to both the AC HOT 1 IN and the AC HOT 2 IN terminals [from either a split-phase (120/240VAC) or three-phase (120/208VAC) source], the Load Support feature is only provided and supports the loads connected to the HOT 1 OUT output. In this instance, the AC HOT 2 OUT output is only pass-thru power coming from the AC HOT 2 IN terminal Info: The input amps (or shore amps) setting on the remote control should be set ≥5 AAC for the load support feature to limit and support the incoming amperage correctly. There are two modes of operation within Load Support. • Load Support AAC – In this mode, the AC loads connected to the inverter output are requiring more power than the incoming AC source can provide on its own. The inverter pulls the additional current—that is needed for the loads—from the inverter batteries to keep the incoming AC current from exceeding the input amps setting on the remote control. Info: In Load Support AAC, even though the LED indicators may indicate charging, the inverter/charger may not be putting current into the battery. If using a remote, the Inverter/Charger Amps AC meter indicates the load support process by displaying negative current fl owing from the batteries to the loads. The input amps AC value will also drop during this process, while the load amps AC value remains the same. • Load Support VDC – In this mode, an external DC source (i.e., alternator, solar, etc.,) is causing the battery bank voltage to rise above the temperature-compensated battery voltage setting on the remote control. If this happens, the inverter/charger will reduce the incoming AC current and use current from the batteries to support the inverter load. Info: The charger must be enabled (not in ‘Charger Standby’) and in the Absorb or Float charge mode (with at least a 6-amp inverter load) for the Load Support VDC feature to be active. Note: Load Support VDC is not active in either the Bulk or EQ charge modes.

 

[Rich W.]

While I'm not smart on that my only thought of is the power coming into the ATS switch. If it's not within params it can shutoff and I think the goal is getting good power, i.e. brown out conditions handled, before the ATS to prevent a disconnect and subsequent AGS start for those with that available and configured.

I’m not either and I don't think it was available when our coaches were built, but since its available now, I would check on a new coach before buying an autoformer.

 

[Neal]

@Joe Goodxrvn after FPU you should take your coach over to Solar Energy Systems in Nappanee and let them give you a little electrical makeover

Solar Energy Systems - Solar Installers - Nappanee, IN

Solar Energy Systems is a leading solar installation company in Nappanee, Indiana, providing solar energy solutions for residential, commercial, farm, and RV's.

sesindiana.com

 

[Joe Hogan]

I checked the Inverter that is installed in the DCDP on the spec sheet. It is a 2800W inverter. The spec sheet did not specify brand. However, the 2800w Pure Sine Magnum does not offer Load Support. I will check once the DSDP is built to see which inverter brand Newmar installed.

 

[Rich W.]

If its 2800 its Magnum. They put Victron 3kw inverters in a few of them in 2022 but that might have just been a supply chain thing,