2024 Newmar New Aire

[turbopilot]

Yes, the 12 volt radiator fans help. There needs to be several.

Here is an IR image of my NA3343 right after shutdown after climbing the grade from St George, UT to Cedar City, UT. 110F at the bottom of the grade when I started the climb.

 

[Neal]

If you are headed to a replacement of the flooded/AGM lead acid batteries I would jump to a 48 volt system. I think the days of 12 volt battery systems are limited for Class A coaches. I would do 48 volt right now for the 2024 NA but it would mean getting rid of the new equipment and a bunch of rewiring.

Not on board with this personally, I have solar and hardly use it. In a New Aire I'm sure storage is a premium and for me I'd want all space I could get for my junk.

 

[turbopilot]

Not on board with this personally, I have solar and hardly use it. In a New Aire I'm sure storage is a premium and for me I'd want all space I could get for my junk.

Yes, those are the folks with the Rettroband right front tire failure. Sure would like to see the 4 corner weights on that NA3343. With full fuel and water but no cargo or anyone on board I only had 1,800 lbs left on my NA3343 to load the front axle with payload. They did have 500 lbs to work with by pulling the AGM batteries for the lithium but that solar array rack system looks heavy and that 48 volt system added additional weight over the 12 volt system.

Moving to a 48 volt system with dual inverters is going take addition space in the belly.

The time when solar really pays off is when you have to leave the coach for service (or other unplanned events) and it is not plugged in. You don't need a whole roof full of solar for this use case but you do need enough to keep the batteries topped, support critical systems and cellular based system monitoring via MyRosie. 400 watts of solar should be more than enough for the case. With 1,000 watts of solar on my NA3343 I could leave the coach outside without power with critical systems running plus the refrigerator on indefinitely during the Summer.

 

[Neal]

The time when solar really pays off is when you have to leave the coach for service (or other unplanned events) and it is not plugged in.

This is the initial reason for my solar install. I was in a storage facility (outdoor) with no power, etc. Solar worked well. Then as you mentioned when in service facilities, batteries were not at risk of going dead. So for that reason, yes. For boondocking I may have had 3-4 real opportunities but due to fall or winter timing with low solar declination it was tough to get good PV.

 

[turbopilot]

Interesting video posted a few days ago by Master Tech RV about a 48 volt hybrid lithium system installed in a New Aire.
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I called Master Tech for more details. Net system weight for this conversion (48 volt lithium batteries, 48 volt alternator, two Victron inverters and a lot of solar on the roof is around 1,500 lbs. The 35' New Aire has the same gross weight as the 33' and with the bigger engine and 2' plug the payload is borderline. Adding this package would really make the payload skinny.

Package price is between $70,000 and $90,000. Each 48 volt lithium battery alone is $16,000. Of interest the owners who installed this upgrade did not remove the Onan generator. With that much electricity available it is hard to believe a generator is really needed. The big 48 volt alternator on the engine should be all you need in addition to the very large solar array on the roof. Apparently this 48 volt alternator can handle the unbelievable big 48 volt lithium batteries that can be charged in 60 to 90 minutes of engine run time.

This upgrade retains the two 12 volt Lithionics batteries using a DC/DC converter to charge those batteries.

 

[Neal]

I have solar, I installed it as I had a need for it (and could again someday) - storage without power, and there is also the times when in service and parked in a lot it can help prevent house batteries from going dead. Beyond that, anyone looking at solar needs to think hard about the need. A modern class A with ultra-quiet gens I question that need. Even if parked in storage or service per above, if AGS is set (and not disabled by the service) the gen can automatically come on and maintain the batteries (notify them to be safe). Then of course for those that want to boondock, again, think hard about your needs as I bet in 75% of the solar installs out there, there is no need.

Take for example simply replacing FLA/AGM batteries with LifePO4 giving you a larger spectrum of usable battery and also faster recharge times such as from a GEN. This further negates the need for solar IMHO. Put the money towards a sufficient and correct LifePO4 install FIRST and go from there. Solar panels and solar controller are the cheap part of the setup. LifePO4 batteries first, other components secondary IMHO if I did it over again. I believe good batteries is all "most" here really need.

Edit: I'm curious of how fast a GEN can recharge a LifePO4 bank. Need to know the charge rate for LifePO4's and how long a GEN run would be required for recharge.

Edit2: Just my $.02

 

[Rich W.]

I have solar, I installed it as I had a need for it (and could again someday) - storage without power, and there is also the times when in service and parked in a lot it can help prevent house batteries from going dead. Beyond that, anyone looking at solar needs to think hard about the need. A modern class A with ultra-quiet gens I question that need. Even if parked in storage or service per above, if AGS is set (and not disabled by the service) the gen can automatically come on and maintain the batteries (notify them to be safe). Then of course for those that want to boondock, again, think hard about your needs as I bet in 75% of the solar installs out there, there is no need.

Take for example simply replacing FLA/AGM batteries with LifePO4 giving you a larger spectrum of usable battery and also faster recharge times such as from a GEN. This further negates the need for solar IMHO. Put the money towards a sufficient and correct LifePO4 install FIRST and go from there. Solar panels and solar controller are the cheap part of the setup. LifePO4 batteries first, other components secondary IMHO if I did it over again. I believe good batteries is all "most" here really need.

Edit: I'm curious of how fast a GEN can recharge a LifePO4 bank. Need to know the charge rate for LifePO4's and how long a GEN run would be required for recharge.

Edit2: Just my $.02

I watched about half the video and that system is pretty much what I suspected. Its more about everything you can do with an unlimited budget and no consideration of actual need, use of space, and cost/benefit. They created a system on a 35’ coach that can run four air conditioners and charge in 90 minutes. Great, but why?

When I first started messing with RV solar, Victron components, and Li-ion battery banks (modules salvaged from Nissan Leafs) it was a challenge - build a system that will run an air conditioner. Then it became a hobby, fun and interesting but expensive. But I did have a system that would run an AC all day and about 7 hours after sundown.

Finally after designing a system for my current coach, with around 25kwh of Li-ion battery bank (to run an air conditioner through the night until the sun came up) and a Victron 8kw 48v inverter (to run two ACs for a shorter period when desired), I kind of came to my senses and realized that yes, I could build it, and for about 1/4 the cost mentioned above, but no, I didn’t need it. So I finally put the brakes on the whole thing.

Right now I have 1575w of residential solar on the roof (5 LG 315w panels) in two banks, and while it wont run an air conditioner, it will always leave me with enough charge in the LA battery bank (weather permitting) to get me through the night and allow me to use a coffee maker and micro wave in the morning before the sun comes up.

With the way I camp that‘s good enough and as Neal mention the generator is relatively quiet - not much louder than the air conditioners, if at all. So I really don’t need a auxiliary system that will support them. It’s a nice feature but to me, not worth the complications and expense. I’ll replace my aging LA battery bank with either big AGMs or LiFePO4 when the time comes for a little more capacity and less maintenance and call it good.

 

[Rd1]

.......... Net system weight for this conversion (48 volt lithium batteries, 48 volt alternator, two Victron inverters and a lot of solar on the roof is around 1,500 lbs. ......

What about the fire supression system?

I hav'nt watched the video yet, but.. I have been to their shop and seen the installation first hand. Likewize, it seemed geared more to the 'unlimited budget', just to have it. Though, they seem to do a nice job. All wires color coded (for the 48V), the installation we looked at, had a fire suppression due to the extend of hi-voltage.

Now, if the factory designed this from production and within reason may be worth considering, given, their cost should be lower and given as much padding in the cost of a new coach, they can easily absorb this expense, if not most of it.

 

[turbopilot]

What about the fire supression system?

I hav'nt watched the video yet, but.. I have been to their shop and seen the installation first hand. Likewize, it seemed geared more to the 'unlimited budget', just to have it. Though, they seem to do a nice job. All wires color coded (for the 48V), the installation we looked at, had a fire suppression due to the extend of hi-voltage.

Now, if the factory designed this from production and within reason may be worth considering, given, their cost should be lower and given as much padding in the cost of a new coach, they can easily absorb this expense, if not most of it.

I agree with your observations. The entire system seems to be "overdone".

In their defense they said the project was carried out without any significant alteration of the stock 12 volt system in the coach. Everything added was in support of creating a "lithium battery generator system" for the coach while retaining the full 12 volt stock system and Onan generator.

I would approach the project differently. I would remove the 500 lb, 8.2 kw generator and replace it with a climate controlled lithium battery/inverter enclosure in the previous generator location. This would dramatically reduce the weight penalty. It would also free up additional belly storage.

With the very big 48 volt diesel engine generator those big lithium batteries can be recharged in a few hours of driving or idling. This time can be offset by the amount of solar on the roof or by finding a 50 amp ground power source. For further weight reduction I would eliminate the chassis batteries in favor of a single start emergency battery pack. Chassis batteries are not needed.

I think the high voltage lithium battery technology has finally evolved to the point we no longer need to carry around an Onan generator for backup. Depending on the size of the 48 volt lithium battery pack it is now feasible to run the air conditioners overnight then recharge in the morning using the chassis diesel engine. The only issue is the reliance on a single 48 volt alternator to power the charging process. A second smaller backup 48 volt alternator on the engine may make more sense for redundancy.

 

[Rd1]

I would approach the project differently. I would remove the 500 lb, 8.2 kw generator and replace it with a climate controlled lithium battery/inverter enclosure in the previous generator location. This would dramatically reduce the weight penalty. It would also free up additional belly storage.

this has relevance, be nice for the factory to offer the option, a genst with the original 12v system or have the LI Batt/Solar 48v system with no gen.