Before we make a big mistake, buying advice needed

[catrispoli2]

Newbies here. Shopping for older DP and found a 2005 Newmar Mountain Aire 4303 from a private owner. The asking is 110 and looking in Blue book (NADA) the avg retail is 76,250 with low retail 63,300. The comparative 2005 Dutch Star average retail is 95250 and low retail 79050, the new cost in 2005 for DS was 296008 while the 2005 new retail price for the MA was 336440. I'm hoping for some advice from you all on why this would be. We thought the MA was a more expensive rig in the Newmar hierarchy and in 2005 it cost more. Is there something we are missing? The rig is in great condition, well maintained with 68,000 miles. Thank you for your insights.

 

[Rich W.]

Well one thing Id say is that NADA probably hasn't caught up with the huge post-covid price jump on used RVs, and by the time it does prices will probably be falling again.

And Ive never found NADA to be very reliable anyway. As to your question there were engine and chassis options that might be skewing the data, or it might just be that there is less used coach sales information on older coaches.

Here are brochures on both which may help establish values:

https://newmar.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/27073527/2005-dutch-star-diesel.pdf

https://library.rvusa.com/brochure/2005madpbrochure.pdf

 

[catrispoli2]

Thank you so much. That was insightful, and I am more concerned that the same rig in the Dutch Star is so much more. It’s so much money to risk when we are not savy or educated in this vehicle market that I was thinking of contacting the Newmar sales folks but unsure if this would be the right consultant to address.

 

[Rich W.]

You can always post links to prospective rigs and see what other members think. I always enjoy researching and examining older rigs and I often learn something in the process.

Another thing about older rigs is maintenance records. Higher milage and higher age make maintenance even more important and dealers rarely provide records.

Also many chasis/engine combinations had significant issues in various years and these are easily researched. Once identified you are equipped to determine if they have been addressed or ignored.

On the model hierarchy yes the MA is one notch above the DS and simce 2015 the MA has also benefitted from the ISX making an even greater distinction, although it is also around 4000 heavier.

Other distinctions include upgraded interiors and appliances, more standard items that are options on the DS and a little more effort on the exterior finish. But lookimg at 15+ year old rigs appliances are probably ready for replacement and exteriors will all need some attention, and many rigs will have been upgraded by now, so I’d ignore all that and look at condition, maintenance, and needed repairs. Tires alone will cost you $5000 or more so a rig with recent rubber is plus.

According to the 2005 brochures, the MA had a 400 hp vs DS 350 (ISM vs ISL?) and the 43’ MA had a tag - there were no 43’ DS models. So that may be worth the difference to you even if the “guides” don't reflect a difference in value. The quality of the interior of either will provide provide the same enjoyment level.

The DS higher reported resale values may also be a function of higher production numbers resulting in more sales from which to derive statistics. So for my money, unless you plan to sell ot soon, I‘d do a critical comparison of what you are getting for the price, and ignore NADA. A close look at RVT,com and RVTrader.com will probably provide more useful data.

 

[Scooterfan]

In my humble opinion the market is entering an adjustment period. Just as during the onset of the COVID pandemic prices fell, then quickly rebounded and soared higher, I believe prices now will fall due to various pressures. Demand is waning (higher fuel charges, increased RV campsite fees, high inventory coming to market, higher interest rates, and well...uncertainty concerning our unstable government. Although Rich IS correct that NADA values are not always good indicators of current value(s), if I were you I would negotiate from there. Offer high NADA value and see where you go from there (if you like the coach). Good luck. JMHO Blessings

 

[Rich W.]

In my humble opinion the market is entering an adjustment period. Just as during the onset of the COVID pandemic prices fell, then quickly rebounded and soared higher, I believe prices now will fall due to various pressures. Demand is waning (higher fuel charges, increased RV campsite fees, high inventory coming to market, higher interest rates, and well...uncertainty concerning our unstable government. Although Rich IS correct that NADA values are not always good indicators of current value(s), if I were you I would negotiate from there. Offer high NADA value and see where you go from there (if you like the coach). Good luck. JMHO Blessings

I agree and also expect to see re-sale values drop over the next year, if not the next few months, and Scooterfan makes a good point - the low NADA value on the MA is a good bargaining tool.

 

[catrispoli2]

You can always post links to prospective rigs and see what other members think. I always enjoy researching and examining older rigs and I often learn something in the process.

Another thing about older rigs is maintenance records. Higher milage and higher age make maintenance even more important and dealers rarely provide records.

Also many chasis/engine combinations had significant issues in various years and these are easily researched. Once identified you are equipped to determine if they have been addressed or ignored.

On the model hierarchy yes the MA is one notch above the DS and simce 2015 the MA has also benefitted from the ISX making an even greater distinction, although it is also around 4000 heavier.

Other distinctions include upgraded interiors and appliances, more standard items that are options on the DS and a little more effort on the exterior finish. But lookimg at 15+ year old rigs appliances are probably ready for replacement and exteriors will all need some attention, and many rigs will have been upgraded by now, so I’d ignore all that and look at condition, maintenance, and needed repairs. Tires alone will cost you $5000 or more so a rig with recent rubber is plus.

According to the 2005 brochures, the MA had a 400 hp vs DS 350 (ISM vs ISL?) and the 43’ MA had a tag - there were no 43’ DS models. So that may be worth the difference to you even if the “guides” don't reflect a difference in value. The quality of the interior of either will provide provide the same enjoyment level.

The DS higher reported resale values may also be a function of higher production numbers resulting in more sales from which to derive statistics. So for my money, unless you plan to sell ot soon, I‘d do a critical comparison of what you are getting for the price, and ignore NADA. A close look at RVT,com and RVTrader.com will probably provide more useful data.

I agree and also expect to see re-sale values drop over the next year, if not the next few months, and Scooterfan makes a good point - the low NADA value on the MA is a good bargaining tool.

Thank you both so much. Here is the link:

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2005-Newmar-MOUNTAIN+AIRE+4304-5020692616?cmp=email_rv_search-alert

Let me know what you think. NaDA high is &76250.

 

[Rich W.]

Nice rig with lot of upgrades. Hopefully you can verify the maintenance history.

 

[Scooterfan]

There are MANY listings in the over $100,000 range (Some as high as $200,000.00) for the comparable coach. BUT then there are some of these...

2005 Newmar Mountain Aire with 4 slides in Alvarado, TX

Search millions of new and used RVs for sale and research your next RVs purchase.

www.smartrvguide.com

This is a tough time to buy. Not having a crystal ball concerning prices makes buying at a good price point nearly impossible. Why not start low and see where your comfort level is. JMHO

 

[catrispoli2]

Nice rig with lot of upgrades. Hopefully you can verify the maintenance history.

Will do! TY!

 

[Just George]

@catrispoli2 Nice looking coach. As others have mentioned a review of maintenance and repair records if they are available would be good. The write up indicates new "Drive" tires. I take this to mean only the drive axel tires are new, leaving the age of the steer (front) tires and tag axel tires as unknown. I would suggest you determine the age of those so you know how close you might be to replacement. There are all kinds of opinions on when tires age out and need replacement. There are also some inspections that can be done however it may require removing the tire from the rim. A general and somewhat conservative rule of thumb is consider replacement at 5 years, some folks will go to 7 years. The write up also shows the refrigerator is a Norcold which was typical for coaches of this age. There have been issues with Norcold refrigerators and some folks replaced the refrigeration system in the existing refrigerator with a electric only system. Others have replaced the Norcolds with a residential refrigerator. Of course some folks have never had an issue and are happy with their Norcold. There is no mention of the age of the house or chassis batteries so those would be another item to check. Just my thought on potential changes / costs you might encounter. You may want to hire a RV inspector to check the coach over. When I sold my coach last fall the buyer hired an inspector. Two inspectors spent 8 hours going over my coach. I think the buyer paid about $800 for the inspection. I would also suggest you consider getting a sample of the engine oil, transmission fluid and engine coolant sent out to a lab for analysis. The lab report can help to identify any potential issues with those systems that could lead to some expensive repairs. Some inspectors may offer the fluids analysis as part of their service.

Hope this is some help.

Good luck in your search,

 

[Rich W.]

I was running out the door this morning when I last posted hence uncommonly my brief response. All of the above are good ideas. You may be looking at purchasing four tires and a bunch of batteries.

Also do a little research on fuel systems in this year range. Ive read a lot about lift pumps, and people modifying the fuel system (such as installing a FASS pump) to resolve the issue, but I don't recall which year/models. Something to ask the seller about since he seems mechanically inclined or at least has good resources.

On the fridge, a lot of folks call them “Nevercold” and my experience has been that they dont keep ice cream frozen, but it might work well and suit your purposes. And at 17 years old a replacement isn’t unreasonable. Also the flooring has been replaced and it looks good in the pics but merits a close inspection. Same thing with the door side seating.

I really like the 3 stage Jake and that its pre-DEF. Seems like a well kept coach worth a close look. As far as prices go this is a wierd market these days and hard to predict, but if you intend to keep it for at least a few years, and use it enough to get your moneys worth out of it, that wont really be an issue.

 

[catrispoli2]

@catrispoli2 Nice looking coach. As others have mentioned a review of maintenance and repair records if they are available would be good. The write up indicates new "Drive" tires. I take this to mean only the drive axel tires are new, leaving the age of the steer (front) tires and tag axel tires as unknown. I would suggest you determine the age of those so you know how close you might be to replacement. There are all kinds of opinions on when tires age out and need replacement. There are also some inspections that can be done however it may require removing the tire from the rim. A general and somewhat conservative rule of thumb is consider replacement at 5 years, some folks will go to 7 years. The write up also shows the refrigerator is a Norcold which was typical for coaches of this age. There have been issues with Norcold refrigerators and some folks replaced the refrigeration system in the existing refrigerator with a electric only system. Others have replaced the Norcolds with a residential refrigerator. Of course some folks have never had an issue and are happy with their Norcold. There is no mention of the age of the house or chassis batteries so those would be another item to check. Just my thought on potential changes / costs you might encounter. You may want to hire a RV inspector to check the coach over. When I sold my coach last fall the buyer hired an inspector. Two inspectors spent 8 hours going over my coach. I think the buyer paid about $800 for the inspection. I would also suggest you consider getting a sample of the engine oil, transmission fluid and engine coolant sent out to a lab for analysis. The lab report can help to identify any potential issues with those systems that could lead to some expensive repairs. Some inspectors may offer the fluids analysis as part of their service.

Hope this is some help.

Good luck in your search,

Thank you for your time and direction. So appreciate it!!!

 

[catrispoli2]

I was running out the door this morning when I last posted hence uncommonly my brief response. All of the above are good ideas. You may be looking at purchasing four tires and a bunch of batteries.

Also do a little research on fuel systems in this year range. Ive read a lot about lift pumps, and people modifying the fuel system (such as installing a FASS pump) to resolve the issue, but I don't recall which year/models. Something to ask the seller about since he seems mechanically inclined or at least has good resources.

On the fridge, a lot of folks call them “Nevercold” and my experience has been that they dont keep ice cream frozen, but it might work well and suit your purposes. And at 17 years old a replacement isn’t unreasonable. Also the flooring has been replaced and it looks good in the pics but merits a close inspection. Same thing with the door side seating.

I really like the 3 stage Jake and that its pre-DEF. Seems like a well kept coach worth a close look. As far as prices go this is a wierd market these days and hard to predict, but if you intend to keep it for at least a few years, and use it enough to get your moneys worth out of it, that wont really be an issue.

We are so grateful for your input. Everyone here is so kind and the advice is amazingly helpful!

 

[catrispoli2]

Newbies here. Shopping for older DP and found a 2005 Newmar Mountain Aire 4303 from a private owner. The asking is 110 and looking in Blue book (NADA) the avg retail is 76,250 with low retail 63,300. The comparative 2005 Dutch Star average retail is 95250 and low retail 79050, the new cost in 2005 for DS was 296008 while the 2005 new retail price for the MA was 336440. I'm hoping for some advice from you all on why this would be. We thought the MA was a more expensive rig in the Newmar hierarchy and in 2005 it cost more. Is there something we are missing? The rig is in great condition, well maintained with 68,000 miles. Thank you for your insights.

Thanks to everyone. We were outbid on that rig, however, everything happens for a reason. We purchased an immaculate 2006 Dutch Star 4026 and are picking her up Tuesday. I’ll be reading threads and posts on first of all garages. We will be Newmar part shopping and much more; looking to gain knowledge from all of you and share as I learn! Just wanted to let you know and thank you all again!

 

[Rich W.]

Glad to hear it and I really like that floor plan with the walk-thru bath - it can be closed off from either side for various purposes. Also dining on the passenger side, no slide under the awning, and a long enough couch. All very functional - well chosen! Heres the brochure in case you dont have it yet:

https://newmar.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/27073524/2006-dutch-star-diesel.pdf

 

[sanda]

I agree and also expect to see re-sale values drop over the next year, if not the next few months, and Scooterfan makes a good point - the low NADA value on the MA is a good bargaining tool.

With inflation running 7+ % a year it really is a gamble either way, buy now or later.

 

[Rich W.]

Agree and on something like this, you kinda have to ignore the economy and just make a decision that meets your recreational goals. Its never been considered an investment anyway. If we were trying to be sensible, we wouldnt be shopping for an RV in the first place.