Is Winnebago flushing out the Newmar cadre?

[DavidL]

Is there any objective data showing a quantitative decline in quality (a bit of an oxymoron I know)? I would imagine quality could actually be on the rise but with the more rapid introduction of features with more failure points, the opposite could be apparent.

In the auto industry there are a few metrics used: JDPower surveys to new vehicle customers. Because auto industry makes many more vehicles per make / model / year, you can get some good statistics. RVs are much smaller volume so might be a bit sketchy.
Warranty repair order analysis of type of work, parts used. You won't get this from the RV manufacturer. But highly valuable data. This is the number one asset used by an OEM for internal measurement of quality and cost.
Customer pay repair order analysis: Third party companies grab data from the dealer's management system. Sell the data to the OEM for analysis. I am doubtful RV industry uses this method due to smaller scale.

You might think that adding electronic gizmos make the product less reliable. Over time, the opposite has been proven to be true. Those gizmos are engineered to a higher level, the manufacturer is more automated and less prone to human error, and the gizmos generally consolidate more functions into one box for cost reduction that eliminates more wire and more connections (which are the major issues to unrelibiability). Of course this can make things harder to diagnose and big boxes are easier to substantiate above keystone markup to inflate cost. But those big boxes typically also have much better internal diagnostics (Diagnostic Trouble Codes or DTCs) that make diagnosis much easier.

I am betting that the reality is quality has gone up, not down, but that's hard to prove, but cross industry a fact.
And because overall quality has risen across most all products, our expectations have risen too.

 

[Stuart W]

So far after owning a new 16,18 and 23 Newmar I would say for the most part quality is better in 23 with a lot of room left for improvement.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

David, to your point about devices being engineered better, I totally agree with you. As a degreed engineer myself I can both understand and be amazed by the evolution of many things we touch and use every day. My concern is two fold, lying with the introduction of new technologies still in their infancy and the human error aspect. Fanuc robots don't have a bad day but Bob who's dog passed away last night might be a little less on point today as he tightens clamps for the ISX cooling system. Of the failures I read about here that have been rectified, many appear to be related to human error, whether a loose cooling hose clamp, an absent house gasket on the chassis or a tag axle that's not tracking centered behind the drive axle (and can't be adjusted). These issues all had hands on them that didn't know better or didn't care enough to do the job correctly. Methods are constantly being refined to reduce this as a possibility and to check the work after performed as function of QA.

The expectations I agree with as well, if buying a coach that costs 15% more, it should be 15% better, inflation has helped to guarantee that won't happen.

 

[Joe Hogan]

Part of the problem measuring "Quality" at the RV mfg level is they are engineers, designers, assemblers and fabricators. You have to dig deep into the failure and cause to understand what is failing and why.
Is it equipment that is 3rd party, is it design, engineering, assembly or uneducated operators using equipment incorrectly?
For instance a residential refrigerator may be reliable in a home but unable to withstand the constant movement, vibration, G Forces of an RV. Whose failure is that?? Interesting debate but doesn't help the guy on a vacation in the desert with melting ice cream.
This is the same for any of the installed components. Unfortunately the RV MFG is going to be held responsible for any failure.
Then there are design and assembly issues that are clearly the MFG problem. A leaky roof? Improper installation or sealant failure? It is a hard problem to sort.

 

[AbdRahim]

Adding electronics makes things too complicated.I prefer switches. I don’t need or want computers to turn on lights, flush the toilets or move slides. Some of us prefer simple and easy. That goes for cars trucks etc. I am fighting and driving against these new cars. Quite annoying. I want full control and to make the decisions, not and onboard cadre of computers.

 

[DavidL]

Adding electronics makes things too complicated.I prefer switches. I don’t need or want computers to turn on lights, flush the toilets or move slides. Some of us prefer simple and easy. That goes for cars trucks etc. I am fighting and driving against these new cars. Quite annoying. I want full control and to make the decisions, not and onboard cadre of computers.

I clicked the switch to open my slide, forgetting that my basement door was swung up and open. That caused contact which would have been a $few thousand in paint / body damage. If there was $300 worth of electronics to automatically check for door open / don't open slide, then that would have been a savings for sure.

Sometimes the cost difference / simplicity isn't obvious.

 

[AbdRahim]

I guess I prefer control and less spent on technology to makedecisions for me - at least the option to forgo the fancy technology.

 

[Jim]

I clicked the switch to open my slide, forgetting that my basement door was swung up and open. That caused contact which would have been a $few thousand in paint / body damage. If there was $300 worth of electronics to automatically check for door open / don't open slide, then that would have been a savings for sure.

Sometimes the cost difference / simplicity isn't obvious.

Or, perhaps, some R&D that put the basement door in a position that it couldn't happen in the first place?

 

[DavidL]

Or, perhaps, some R&D that put the basement door in a position that it couldn't happen in the first place?

Sure, and certainly the newer models have doors that open side to side. But how many of those have door alignment and latch issues? Yes, I would choose that over the doors that raise (easier access), but everything has it's issues. Most of those are economics driven (reduce manufacturing cost).

Now, the side by side don't require air shock pistons or multi position tracks on the RV side of the piston...so there is a cost savings there for sure. I am not sure on the history of why someone thought doors that lift Up is the thing to do...

 

[Neemer]

I am not sure on the history of why someone thought doors that lift Up is the thing to do...

When my old Kountry Star was aired down, I swear I had to practically low-crawl to access the storage bays with slides out.