KIB Sensors

[ARD]

On the IRV2 forum there is a discussion once again on the KIB sensors and I thought, I'd bring it over here with respects to the problem I am having. Last year I had a lot of problems with my KIB sensors on my gray and black tanks. Newmar had KIB out twice, ultimately replaced and recalibrated my sensors, as well as moved my water pump because that was affecting the levels too. Although not perfect, the sensors did pretty well for about 8 months. Sometimes it would take 24 hours to right themselves after dumping. Then I started having problems. When my gray tank levels would increase, the black tank levels would go down.

When I was at Newmar the past few weeks, I told them about my problem and that they should fix it under warranty, as it is a known problem and they knew when I left last year that they weren't 100%. Of course, they did the spiel of cleaning my tanks 1st. I told them no problem, put as many chemicals in my tanks as you want, but that is not the problem. They recalibrated my sensors and gave me the upgrade. Not even a week later since I left Newmar, I was doing a sewer rinse. When I dumped the tanks, black level is at 5%. It doesn't zero out. As I fill the black tank and it reaches 45%, it stays there for a bit and then starts going down even though I'm continuing to fill it up. I tried this several times and each time, it stopped at 45% and then goes down. I will try again with a flow meter so I can see how far I can go. I did not go to the point of hearing gurgling in the toilet because I was afraid I couldn't run fast enough to turn the water off. Someone had suggested disconnecting the power source and that might reboot the sensors. That had no impact on my sensor readings.

Thank you Red Baron for responding on the other thread.

 

[redbaron]

@ARD - Replying here now.

The strips can be replaced by NIRV. It is a big job, as the wetbay panel must be removed. IMHO, this is your problem now.

The strips are very hard to see, and if there is any area that is not adhered, it will behave the way you are describing. I used my cell phone to get a good video of mine, and was able to see where the corners, and bottom had an airgap.

newmar replaced them, and those too failed. Turns out the process they used to replace it was a problem. The last time they did the replacement, I had them use a fine grade sandpaper to rough up the tank, then clean with rubbing alcohol and allow it to dry. Then apply the sensor pad. While the sensor pad was being put on, he removed the backing and stuck it to the backside of his hand !!!

I stopped the whole process, and requested they get another, as that strip was now ruined. They didn't believe me that this was an issue, and called KIB tech to come over. He backed me up, and I got a new pad properly installed on both Gray and Black tanks.

 

[Neal]

When I last put my SeeLevel strips on I removed and reattached them to get the alignment better as it was hard to reach/position for black/gray - however - I took black gorilla tape (like duct tape) and put that over the sensors as well for reassurance they won't come off. So don't hesitate to put a strong tape over top of them for anyone that does install sensor strips.

The SeeLevel installer guy that does it at rallies uses an orbital sander which is what I did on the pegboard side followed by alcohol (91%). I never saw a SeeLevel strip work its way off, they do adhere well. Not sure on the KIB stuff.

I don't know about KIB but SeeLevel also instructs you to route the wires from the sensor strip so they exit off the sides and do not go up over the ends where some of the electricals are. I don't know if Newmar knows of this or if it's required.

 

[redbaron]

The KIB and Seelevel strips are identical as far as how they adhere. Same glue, same process for install.

 

[ARD]

@redbaron - Eee gads. This is going to be fun. Thank you so much for your help. I appreciate it.

 

[ARD]

Thanks @redbaron for your help. I spoke with Newmar and they agreed on the new sensors. It would seem that the manner in which they place the sensors is important and I doubt NIRVC will allow me to observe. I am going to ask to speak to the technician who will work on my coach. Any suggestions on what to say to him to have them properly installed? Thanks!

 

[Neal]

As the one with the credit card you better believe I would be allowed to observe. I would simply ask them "hey, when you have the new sensors installed I'd like to view them prior to reinstalling the wet bay panel." You want to inspect them and make sure they are adhered from top to bottom and not curling off which would be an indication of poor adhesion. I would ask if they would also put tape (I use gorilla tape) over top of the sensors for additional protection against the sensors from separating from the tank. These sensor strips will likely be about 2-3 foot back from the wet bay panel and something you can inspect and take pictures of. You can probably see them now if you take your camera and hold up behind your wet bay panel from below and look in between the black and gray tanks as there is a separation between them down the center. This is where the sensors are, about a foot back on the sides of the tanks.

 

[ARD]

As the one with the credit card you better believe I would be allowed to observe

Hah! Yeah, it's all on Newmar's dollar. I will attempt to observe. I just want to make sure I know what I'm observing...the roughing up the tank for placement, etc.

 

[Neal]

I didn't sand mine that I installed next to Newmars sensors, I did that on the pegboard side once as I was struggling with readings there which is the wrong place. It could actually affect adhesion as I'd rather have a good adhesion surface vs. a rough one. I would not be concerned with the installation or how such as sanding, alcohol prep etc. but you can certainly "ask" in other words offer that they would consider to ensure good adhesion as you're concerned about not having to ever do this again.

The most important is proper cleaning such as alcohol etc. but those sensor strips adhere very well. I think taking an approach of "I'd love to see them before you put the wet bay panel back on" would be a good approach so they can educate you on what's back there meanwhile you're also inspecting to ensure good adhesion. If you get some black gorilla tape (like duct tape but stronger) and offer "hey, a friend put this over top of his sensors for added protection against the sensors from detaching, could you do this for me?" is something to consider. I've gone through about $500 (literally) in SeeLevel sensor strips working to get the system right so I'm very familiar with those things. The adhesive is very good!

 

[boomer]

Our solution to empty black tank reading 75%, dump - rinse - put in 40 gallons - dump again … seems to be the only way to get Empty on black tank readings.
Oh, other than the empty condition, the gauge reads pretty darn good

 

[RKins]

After you drain and rinse your tanks, if you add about 5-10 gals of water back into the black and grey tanks before you move to your next location and add about 1/2 a bottle of Dawn dishwashing liquid and the same of a small bottle of calgon (to each tank), the dawn is very slippery and the softening of the water makes it slippery, your tanks should be cleaner when you get there and hopefully your sensors will read better. I know the topic is about sensor attachment but if they are and you're having problems not related to attachment, the above will probably help. Does on mine.

 

[turbopilot]

The KIB and Seelevel strips are identical as far as how they adhere. Same glue, same process for install.

Mine are now acting up. I have not seen any images published of these sensors. Are they always on the wet bay side of the tanks?

 

[redbaron]

Yes, as that is the low point.

The gray tank and black tank are side by side, on top of the fresh tank. The strips are installed on the sidewall of the 2 tanks closest to the wetbay.

You can get a visual without removing the panel, but wont be able to fix without removing the panel.

2019 DSDP 4369 * Active Air * NHSO

 

[turbopilot]

Yes, as that is the low point.

The gray tank and black tank are side by side, on top of the fresh tank. The strips are installed on the sidewall of the 2 tanks closest to the wetbay.

You can get a visual without removing the panel, but wont be able to fix without removing the panel.

2019 DSDP 4369 * Active Air * NHSO

Will get out my endoscope and take a look. We really need to install old fashioned liquid sight gauges on these tanks with these reliability problems. Would be easy to install aftermarket with good access to the tank.

 

[boomer]

After you drain and rinse your tanks, if you add about 5-10 gals of water back into the black and grey tanks before you move to your next location and add about 1/2 a bottle of Dawn dishwashing liquid and the same of a small bottle of calgon (to each tank), the dawn is very slippery and the softening of the water makes it slippery, your tanks should be cleaner when you get there and hopefully your sensors will read better. I know the topic is about sensor attachment but if they are and you're having problems not related to attachment, the above will probably help. Does on mine.

Again probably not appropriate for this thread, but the above and more (read below) has no effect on the issue I am seeing.
Just to be clear, I have filled the tank with 40 gallons, added chemicals (twice), drove with dawn and ice cubes and physically might have the cleanest tanks in the world. Still the only way to get zero reading on black tank is add 40 gallons after dumping. I have even left the rinse run for 20 minutes (just for fun). As an engineer my only thoughts currently is the sensors have an issue with 'nothing' being in the tank. If I dump and only put 5 gallons back in (not 40 and dump again), the gauge will read 1/8 a tank. Before adding the 5 gallons the reading will be 3/4 tank. There is something inherent in the system design that lets the gauge go down when you add water. BTW: If I drain the 5 gallons the reading will go back to 3/4.
I apologize f

 

[kenk02]

As the one with the credit card you better believe I would be allowed to observe. I would simply ask them "hey, when you have the new sensors installed I'd like to view them prior to reinstalling the wet bay panel." You want to inspect them and make sure they are adhered from top to bottom and not curling off which would be an indication of poor adhesion. I would ask if they would also put tape (I use gorilla tape) over top of the sensors for additional protection against the sensors from separating from the tank. These sensor strips will likely be about 2-3 foot back from the wet bay panel and something you can inspect and take pictures of. You can probably see them now if you take your camera and hold up behind your wet bay panel from below and look in between the black and gray tanks as there is a separation between them down the center. This is where the sensors are, about a foot back on the sides of the tanks.

Mine are at the end of the tanks right behind the panel (2019 DSDP 4369). Mine didn't read correctly. Yeah first Newmar/KIB had the tech put chemicals in for 2 days, that didn't work so KIB sent a tech to Newmar Service and reprogramed the sensor panel. Works well now. I am going to add Sealevel so I can have a panel in the wet bay.

 

[AbdRahim]

Very discouraging. I am trading up from a C with everything finally working perfectly after 4 years, including the sensors.