NIRVC Manufacturers Defects Per Unit

[GUS2000]

Bill,
thanks for sharing that post, but i had already read it and still dont agree with the method of data analysis in this case. the data is misleading at best and doesn't really show anything of value that could be used in a decision making process. I will leave it at that..

 

[punkinhead]

All data is imperfect, but even imperfect data is better than nothing and certainly better than random personal anecdotes on the internet. I'm glad NIRVC is collecting and publishing this. I also suspect they have a lot more data but aren't sharing it publicly for competitive reasons and to not piss off the manufacturers. I'd love to see data for the first year or two of ownership but that's got to be much harder to collect and trust. That kind of warranty data would almost have to come from the manufacturers themselves which I doubt they'd publish. As an engineer I had to make decisions based on the data I had, not the data I wish I had.

 

[Headhunter]

I think compiling that kind of data that NIRVC is doing is very proactive. Not only for us as customers, but for them as a major RV seller. And I 'll tell you what, if and when I am looking at another new coach I will definitely give NIRVC a shot.

I think we really need and appreciate people like Brett and Leigh Tiffin that are involved and caring enough about their business to keep us, the general public informed.

I had or have extensive dealings with two RV Sales companies. One was recently bought out and their service prices sky rocketed. The other is just to far away and always higher on price.

Brett thank you very much for the explanation of your DPU report.

HH

 

[MarkMaxPayne]

Glad NIRVC is sharing this data. Then add in 1st year warranty repairs... I know that my first year of ownership I fixed my own issues at a 5:1 to 6:1 ratio to what I went to the dealer to resolve under warranty. I went to the dealer for either things I couldn't resolve myself, that I absolutely wanted documented, or the $ was high enough to put it back on Newmar even after factoring in spending the fuel on it. I guess my point is that the NIRVC numbers are only part of the quality story and I suspect the actual numbers are higher.

Transparency is a good thing.

Best,
-Mark

 

[GUS2000]

I think its worth mentioning that even $2M coaches have issues that have to be corrected.. we have friends with a 2024 Newell and they have had more issues with it than we have with our Newmar DutchStar... bottom line to me is that most coaches will have problems, but how they are taken care of is what matters most... as Mark stated, some of us like to do our own repairs and I am one of them... not worth it to bring a coach into a shop to sit for weeks for something that is minor and doesn't impact a trip... That being said, i always notify Newmar of any issue i find so they can have the information on what i found and how i corrected it.

 

[Winchipper]

StewartW & Others

Saw this in another forum, and after the issues you had mentioned in NEWMAR and other products, I thought you might be interested in reading this information from Brett Davis and NIRVC:

Manufacturer Defects Per Unit

Compare NIRVC's Defects Per Unit data collected across different RV Manufacturers we work with.

www.nirvc.com

Asking a Dealership who itself has to account for its current and past warranty procedures and assuming they will be accurate is a little like asking the Wolves to guard the hen house in my opinion .
I have seen inspectors find more issues after NIRVC has done a PDI . Of course they then banned them . Then when I put it up on another site they had it removed .
Infact I have a copy of the letter threatening the lawsuit . It is important for NIRVC to do this so they can pretend to be the know it alls . Imagine if CARFAX was a product of a dealership . I have no idea why a manufacturer would allow this unless they had a relationship above the norm or am interest in it . The old magazine consumer reports for an example as does JDPowers as being very separate.
Let’s face it the quality is not great coming from the factories . It truly becomes a customer adventure to make certain the coach they buy is worthy of the money spent . More so , that they won’t be living with knowing they are waiting for parts.
I have reached out to a few factories and told them I would be willing to consult on process and quality control as well as distribution and sales . No takers yet . Soon I imagine

 

[Winchipper]

Glad NIRVC is sharing this data. Then add in 1st year warranty repairs... I know that my first year of ownership I fixed my own issues at a 5:1 to 6:1 ratio to what I went to the dealer to resolve under warranty. I went to the dealer for either things I couldn't resolve myself, that I absolutely wanted documented, or the $ was high enough to put it back on Newmar even after factoring in spending the fuel on it. I guess my point is that the NIRVC numbers are only part of the quality story and I suspect the actual numbers are higher.

Transparency is a good thing.

Best,
-Mark

Please explain how you think NIRVC is being transparent ? They sell , service and store for profit . The data they provide is opinion and unsubstantiated by a third party . I too can call myself an expert and publish on a website . Does that make me an expert .

 

[Boat Bum]

There are three types of lies:
Lies
Damn Lies
Statistics

 

[Neemer]

Please explain how you think NIRVC is being transparent ? They sell , service and store for profit . The data they provide is opinion and unsubstantiated by a third party . I too can call myself an expert and publish on a website . Does that make me an expert .

 

[Winchipper]

Let’s talk about that video . It was a calculated response to an inspection of a coach by Blue Ox . Pierre and his wife did a YouTube video about the inspection as they do many . They never even mentioned NIRVC but , Brett and Angie told their GMs that from that point they were banned . They then sent to Blue Ox a very threatening letter and follwed with a cease directive . Told them to get an attorney ready . In my opinion it was beyond vulgar actions. I spoke up about these actions amongst others as was terminated. So I know first hand . They also discussed with a couple of the manufactures and I heard this coat Blue Ox some possible opportunities .
I can say this when Blue Ox showed up the unit was filthy and they were told it was PDI . The coach was not hooked to water but had enough in tanks to run . They ask the buyer to ask the dealership to have hooked up . It is in their contract . Inspectors do not drive the coaches.
In the video you share you can see Brett does not share the two lists. If he did you would see there are differences. Instead of using it as a learning tool Brett would rather attack the inspection . Brett clearly says that New Coaches don’t need inspections because of PDI and warranties cover .

Who caught the age of the tires ? When were they ordered ? Just one item on the lists . The customer is getting new tires now .

Brett explains why the coach is filthy inside . Maybe he keeps his coach that way , but last time I had my home inspected I made sure it was clean . Same with every vehicle I have sold . It is common sense . Frankly I am not sure why anyone would want to inspect without . I have 30 years experience in the dealership world and we always pull all the plastic and covers so we can see with a PDI .

NIRVC has a very good strategy of survival in this industry . They do the storage inside and it gives a lot of benefits to the guests , but I think it stops at that point. They again want to list and publish with no oversight . I guess if you talk smooth like on the video you put up that it is fact . I don’t think he does 1000s of new coaches a year . He may want to fact check himself .

He told all GMs that they need to have an approved list of people that are good to NIRVC and only those inspectors would be allowed . Now I see he has some push back, but all should know that was his motivation .

I still do not know what Blue Ox did wrong , but clearly this video was produced because of it. They accuse Blue Ox of wrong doing and yet is it okay they call manufactures and try to scare a small business who has a good reputation because they made a video ?

 

[Neemer]

Is anything in that video untrue?

 

[AbdRahim]

As for me, I am unlikely to buy used, but a test drive and independent inspection, in addition to my thorough inspection would be essential. If the dealer say no to any of the above, the deal is off!!

From all of what I am hearing, my opinion of NIRVC has dropped quite a few notches. It seems like the larger dealerships become, the more the emphasis shifts from customer satisfaction to profit, at the expense of the customer.

 

[Winchipper]

Untrue sometimes is an unkind word . I think these are 100 percent the opinions of those doing the video. If you don’t think an inspection is needed on a new coach because it has a warranty then that becomes your opinion . I think the quality coming from the factories has a lot to be desired and I would rather get my arms around things prior . I have heard many sales people (so I assume they been taught ) take it on a trip and come back we can take care of things . The problem is a lot of times that causes long trips, long wait times for parts and lack of use for something you may have just paid 500k for .
I think since the trip to LV for example is 1900 miles that it is the best time to have an inspection. Why do you then need to go find things ? Actually I think that is crazy opinion Brett shares . Let’s face it Brett makes a lot of money from the factory on warranty items . They are suppose to check it in and list things found such as paint . In my short tenure I saw that missed and watched it cost a sale . So assuming a dealership is the end all is not my idea of a good way to start . I have seen a unit PDI , inspected and still items are found . Less of course , but to enjoy this experience I say prudence is best .

I would really like to hear others opinions . Am I off base ? Should manufactures and customers think that NIRVC are the inspection quality police ?
I have no affiliation with Blue Ox , but I believe in small business not being stepped on . I believe in POD Cast , YouTube videos and free true speech . I don’t believe in those who try to attack it .

 

[Texas Clodhopper]

@Winchipper, you seem to have inside information and maybe I missed something but where or how do you know the information you're posting?

 

[Neemer]

@Winchipper , this will be my last on this topic. We are not close on opinions. Nowhere in that video or any of my dealings with NIRVC have I seen or heard them claim to the know-all be-all of motorhome inspections. Brett explains his process and timeline in that video and he clearly stated that PDI does not mean the coach is ready for the customer. He also clearly states that third-party inspectors are welcome, as long as they are reputable, and his list of approved inspectors is not exclusive. All but the one called out on his website are welcome, provided they are there to work for the customer instead of promote themselves.

Full disclosure: I have purchased two coaches from NIRVC. I had dealer delivery on one and factory delivery on the other. I found the dealer delivery to be less than impressive compared to factory delivery. I did not have a third party inspection performed because I also did not see it as necessary on a brand new coach. NIRVC did not influence that decision, I was able to figure that out on my own.

NIRVC is an imperfect organization run by imperfect people, but I believe their hearts are in the right place. The video I posted speaks for itself.

 

[Winchipper]

@Winchipper, you seem to have inside information and maybe I missed something but where or how do you know the information you're posting?

I think I have valuable information. I am not really certain what inside information is . I can say this I was on another Forum and I was kicked off with virtually the same post and information . It has come clear to me that there may be a lot of influence in this industry from NIRVC .

 

[Winchipper]

I think I have valuable information. I am not really certain what inside information is . I can say this I was on another Forum and I was kicked off with virtually the same post and information . It has come clear to me that there may be a lot of influence in this industry from NIRVC .

I know for certain this video was done for this reason and includes Jase who worked directly under me . Please explain to me in your opinion what Blue Ox did wrong and just because Brett says it is okay the coach is filthy for an expecting it does not make others opinions uncorrect . I witnessed plenty of deliveries and I have been underwhelmed and put myself in the customer shoes . I have seen the experience as aggravating at best . But .. Seems like the industry standard is not good is ok .
If you like your meal undercooked , overcooked or very salty then you go to that restaurant that serves it that way . Me if I pay for a meal I want it to look good , smell good , taste good and not give me indigestion . We are all different . I again am not sure I want the fox or the wolves watching the hen house . By the way you can see how Jase is lead and how he responds . Like “yes boss” .
Did you watch the you tube presentation ? If so do you think it is acceptable to tell the inspectors to have an attorney ready ?

 

[Winchipper]

Also please explain why Blue Ox was not reputable . It is my understanding the customers were happy with the inspection and had no issue . Inspection are suppose to be independent . If it is Brett process that the coach should be filthy then he can explain that . Can he explain what the inspectors found that the PDI did not ? See if I was trying to debunk and inspector I would show facts on the PDI and compare lists.
Back in them old days the preacher would come to town and miraculously he would heal someone in the tent . Or the medicine man would show up with the wagon and have the cure . They were always soft spoken slick props and had the answers .
I have learned it is best often times to look through. You don’t see the video as what I know and how it was intended .

 

[MarkMaxPayne]

Please explain how you think NIRVC is being transparent ? They sell , service and store for profit . The data they provide is opinion and unsubstantiated by a third party . I too can call myself an expert and publish on a website . Does that make me an expert .

If you read my post again you'll find I made two statements: "Glad NIRVC is sharing this data" and "Transparency is a good thing." The second statement being after I shared I believed the data shared would actually only be a fraction of the story RE manufacturer defects and why I felt that way. Where did I say anywhere in that post "NIRVC is being transparent"?

I'll stick with both of my original points as they stand independently on their own: "Glad NIRVC is sharing this data" and "Transparency is a good thing."

Best,
-Mark

 

[Winchipper]

If you read my post again you'll find I made two statements: "Glad NIRVC is sharing this data" and "Transparency is a good thing." The second statement being after I shared I believed the data shared would actually only be a fraction of the story RE manufacturer defects and why I felt that way. Where did I say anywhere in that post "NIRVC is being transparent"?

I'll stick with both of my original points as they stand independently on their own: "Glad NIRVC is sharing this data" and "Transparency is a good thing."

Best,
-Mark

They can share any data and it can say whatever they want they want it to say . I am for free speech . None of that makes it accurate . It based upon his techs . Many have left him over the last year . Maybe they know something . Maybe they don’t . Ask the CEO about the body shop claims in the Past . Would he swear to them being correct ? Alls my point is if I am a manufacturer I would have issue with this process . Maybe Tiffin or NewMar should post how many opportunities to do business and leads they send and what the closing ratio are . Or post the dealer CSI ratings publically . How do you think that would go over?