Old Magnum MS2812 and new Lithiums

[nsr1357]

it is not a dumb question, to be sure (I have a monopoly on "dumb" questions in most places) but the shunt is mounted in the right spot as victron directed, iboth leads are utilized and it is measuring voltage and aperage as the magnum unit is. as to "all", I am not sure what other ground you mean.

in any event, the shunt readings mirror the amperage and voltage readings that are also on the magnum 2812....the shunt is the only victron item in this set up, so the info via bluetooth is more than the magnum tells us, but even there, when it does indicate a 100% state of charge, the problems I am alluding to here, come fast and furious, nevertheless.

 

[nsr1357]

One more point! Just because the voltage is up does not mean the bank has soaked enough to be fully charged.

Soaking the battery does no harm at the voltage requested by the manufacturer.

A battery monitor is designed to keep track of state of charge. To set one up you must have a fully charged battery at startup! That means you should soak the batteries without using them for the time required for a full charge (this can be calculated). Personally I Just soak for a week to be sure.

Ultimately rock solid is obtained with properly setting things up!!!

i am not familiar with the term "soaked", but all eight batteries we have tested in this problematic area, have also been tested indvidually....by that I mean fully charged with a victron charger, one at a time, measured for current drops on their own to see if anything is amiss, and then measured again a day later or so, to see if there are any anomolies. every one of them specs out where it should.
other than the magnum panel, I do have, as mentioned, a victron shunt wired in per instructions (meaning, at the right place to it mirrors what the magunum panel is seeing and at last as it concerns voltage, amperage and it also gives, of course, a state of charge...which shows at 100%....but the batteries still do what they do and drop as they do, precipitously.
and the practical proof is, again, what happened last night off of shore power and how quickly supposedly fully charged batteries got below 13 volts with a modest load.
when all is normal..meaning shore power, panels contributing, etc.....the dishcarges come so fast, relatively speaking, that the charge cycle happens a half dozen or so times a day,

 

[nsr1357]

and after testing each battery, each of whic had been fully charged before we put each back into the array in line, showed perfect levels of charge. am I missing something?

 

[nsr1357]

If there was a draw taking the batteries down, it would show up on the shunt reading…it would show how many amps have been draw since last charge. I apologize for what might be a dumb question, but are ALL grounds running through the shunt?

hi,
i wanted to address your question about "all" grounds, and went to the manual (it appears this is connected the right way in my install):
per the manual:
"Connect the negative of the electrical system to the M10 bolt on the "LOAD MINUS" side of the shunt. Tighten the shunt bolt with a maximum torque of 21Nm. Make sure that the negative of all DC loads, inverters, battery chargers, solar chargers and other charge sources are connected “after” the shunt....."
I hope this is what you referred to and in this case, at least, they want all other ground connections "downstream", for lack of a better word.
anyway, thanks again for your time and help
ps the shunt is an ip65 500A flavor. it does give some discharge information but unless i am missing something it does not provide that data on any kind of daily basis as opposed to a cumulative one (from which, I would agree, one can calculate the differences (I have never done that but it is a good idea...thanks).

 

[Richpatty]

Is the Shunt a Victron Smart Shunt?

 

[nsr1357]

Is the Shunt a Victron Smart Shunt?

yes..just posted a model number and verbiage on connections, in particular, grounds.
thank you!

 

[Richpatty]

OK. As I have a Smart Shunt as well and it provides good info on what is happening at each moment. You should be able to see how many amps are moving across it and how much longer (usually in days) you have left.

 

[nsr1357]

OK. As I have a Smart Shunt as well and it provides good info on what is happening at each moment. You should be able to see how many amps are moving across it and how much longer (usually in days) you have left.

many thanks! it always shows a fully charged state to start with, but again, drops down very quickly along with the magnum panel.
in any event, I have a great tech person who is going to hold my hand on the phone this coming weekend, while we check the state of amperage and current on all the breakers to see if there is something draining this or somehow preventing a full charge, despite what the shunt says.
thanks again.

 

[Richpatty]

OK. Report back and let us know what you find.

 

[nsr1357]

OK. Report back and let us know what you find.

i intend to. c u all next week.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Did you do the install, or have it done? Can you send an electrical diagram?

I am more interested in the 12v high power part,like how the batteries are tied together. Where on the batteries are the charging and power coming off of the pack! And where the shunt (battery monitor is placed in comparison to the circuit! Accompany the diagram with some well lighted pictures! Then I,or someone else here May be able to see what you missed.

I want you to think of the battery pack as a turkey in the oven! Although the oven is at 350° ,and the skin is at 160° in the middle you know it is still cold! So you set the timer and allow the turkey to "soak" up the ovens heat.

Your bank is much the same! For the chemical reaction to fully react, the batteries must bask in the power applied for some time.

Forgive the time delay! I have been up between 2 and 4 with symptoms, and needing a nap everyday!

 

[nsr1357]

first, no apology is necessary. I hope you don't have symptoms of anything serious.
next, i had the install done (and by an ex navy machinist, who while not an electronics expert, is a smart man with lots of mechanical skills......and/but with directions from me as helped by others. also this trailer already had a previous installation of lifeline batteries, but I got direction from battleborn to make sure that proper <new> wires were mostly used....the wire grounding to the chassis was kept as, perhaps were a couple of others, but otherwise it was a new installation. cables all came from a great supplier as suggested to me by others, that being BatteryCables USA, who sells top quality wiring and does a great job of making to spec, shipping on time, etc....I have used them a lot and think, obviously, they are first rate.
next, I do have photos....I have never actually made a diagram, although I had some very basic ones to ensure that the parallel wiring was done correctly...but I don't think they will be much help.
however, the photos are good and i could upload them tomorrow if that would suit you.
I'm very glad and thankful that you are willing to take a look. I hope we have not missed anything...well, maybe I do...as getting to the bottom of this is what I need to do.
as to the "soaking", I am sure it is me...I am still dealing with some trying artifacts of my surgical adventures recently, so I may be missing something...and I read your description...but is the point you are making that to start with, you question whether or not the batteries were properly charged up to begin?
anyway, the pictures were just taken again today, by me.......and I can take more if/as you may want them.
may I upload them without a diagram at this point?

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Well yes! It is always good to cover all bases. Then the batteries were topped off! Good! Over view pictures are important, as well as wire routing. As well lit as you can make them. A rough drawing of the circuit would be good, but pictures will suffice.

I am going through a positive change.( I am well). I know this topic is pressing,but don't overdo please!!! The generator will get you through,so take your time!!!

Oh! Take a picture of this frame ground connection!

 

[nsr1357]

Well yes! It is always good to cover all bases. Then the batteries were topped off! Good! Over view pictures are important, as well as wire routing. As well lit as you can make them. A rough drawing of the circuit would be good, but pictures will suffice.

I am going through a positive change.( I am well). I know this topic is pressing,but don't overdo please!!! The generator will get you through,so take your time!!!

Oh! Take a picture of this frame ground connection!

got it...as well as your advice. already had a ground shot and am including it
c u tomorrow......

 

[nsr1357]

OK, here some are. I have erred a bit on the side of too much rather than not enough and hope that is OK.
i understand it is a bit of a challenge for you to figure all this out from photos, and i wanted to give you every chance.
i reduced them all substantially in size but think they have, still, enough quality for you to see what needs to be seen.
I am ready to take more of anything you see! i have made multiple uploads to send what was allowed (1o images) with each post
thanks so much

 

[nsr1357]

second batch. i am assuming, correctly i hope, that you can zoom in or out on these to see what needs to be seen. again, if anything is not helpful as is, I am glad to take more. I have enough energy for this right now

 

[nsr1357]

one thing I just noticed. while the batteries in parallel are connected with 1/0 cable, my belief is that the array...the one positive and negative that comes off the group to turn the four into one, so to say.......................is supposed to be 4/0 wires and i can see that they are not.
could this be the reason that, as you suggested, the devices are reading "full charge", but in fact, not enough amperage is getting to the batteries from the magnum unit?
what about the busbars to which all this is connected. depending on their size and handling ability, if they were too small, electrically speaking (I don't know that they are), could that be affecting all this, too?
beyond the thrust of the issue at hand, could, also, 1/0 wires (or busbars) too small to handle the total current coming off of the array, be unsafe? none of the cables feel warm, for what that may be worth, not that that is a very scientific method to tell.

 

[nsr1357]

one thing I just noticed. while the batteries in parallel are connected with 1/0 cable, my belief is that the array...the one positive and negative that comes off the group to turn the four into one, so to say.......................is supposed to be 4/0 wires and i can see that they are not.
could this be the reason that, as you suggested, the devices are reading "full charge", but in fact, not enough amperage is getting to the batteries from the magnum unit?
what about the busbars to which all this is connected. depending on their size and handling ability, if they were too small, electrically speaking (I don't know that they are), could that be affecting all this, too?
beyond the thrust of the issue at hand, could, also, 1/0 wires (or busbars) too small to handle the total current coming off of the array, be unsafe? none of the cables feel warm, for what that may be worth, not that that is a very scientific method to tell.

 

[nsr1357]

ps i have turned off the charger for now, just fyi and just in case.

 

[nsr1357]

ps i have turned off the charger for now, just fyi and just in case.

a handful of other folks, have seen these photos or similar ones and pronounced all fine....but in putting together this second system I mentioned to you...the one which is not plumbed into the trailer ecosystem as all these are, 4/0 wires should, I am told, be used to connect the battery array to the victron equipment that is being used for that new system here in the trailer