Question Rettroband - are they worth it?

[MapNerd]

Hope they make the driver whole and give him something for the trouble.

 

[VTPete]

I bought Tyron with my new rig and I now consider it a dumb move. I was an easy mark for the guy in Finance. It will not happen next time. I guess they are peace of mind but the odds seem minuscule. Seems these blow outs occur but rarely.

 

[redbaron]

I won't buy these for my rv.

I also do not dive with a spare air, which is good for emergency. The reason is the same. The devices are there for worst case scenario. Proper training, inspection, and equipment maintenance will negate the need for either of the devices.

My steer tires are checked prior to every drive and at every fuel stop. I keep them pressured properly, and replace at 5 years.

My tag and drive tires will see 6-7 years of service.

When diving, I always have a buddy. Thats my emergency plan.

 

[Neal]

Again, wasn’t a blowout. He also said comfort drive was amazing in this event. Essentially he had a giant lump in the tire and pulled over.

 

[Neal]

Follow-up for those not on Facebook to read the dialog:

• Cause seems to be 3rd party installers and not following instructions such as using an impact driver and causing hairline cracks. As these look they are plastic and subject to this which makes me wonder how they will hold up to the heat cycles
• Brett from NIRVC as expected is on it and handling it as expected replacing the affected's front tires and reaching out to all those had 3rd party installs done

To me, these things are supposed to give you peace of mind, now you have to worry about your tire and the safety device within. Proper tire care, inflation, inspections cannot be understated and replacing your critical tires at the proper intervals or better. Being cheap will cost you more in the end.

Does anyone know if the trucker industry goes through this offering things like this for tires? Or is the continued theme of preying on the retired and marketing out of fear?

 

[Neal]

Just read on Facebook this guy had another failure and he’s having NIRVC remove them.

 

[sheridany]

@Neal would you mind posting the contents of the FB post. I am not on FB.

 

[Neal]

@Neal would you mind posting the contents of the FB post. I am not on FB.

I'm not a fan of copying content from a private group but the gist is:

1. It failed again (not sure which side)
2. Possibly an issue with the larger 365 tire
3. Speak of a newer version of Retrobands coming out

My opinion:

1. Michelin didn't make tires to have crap stuffed inside them
2. They can get very hot, we know of external temps, what are internal temps? What if the retrobands are spinning internally and building up even more heat?
3. Retrobands are plastic, can they handle the stresses and temps? Doesn't seem so
4. NIRVC bought into a very risky situation potentially a fraud of a product. Very unfortunate, could have high liability consequences

Concept sounded great, execution is a major problem.

 

[MapNerd]

I’d be more interested in knowing the failure rate before I wrote them off completely.

The first incident iirc was from a third party improperly installing them. Hard to blame NIRVC for that. ReadTheDocs!

Don’t really know the details of this one yet. Could be a similar issue. Could be a design flaw. Reserve judgement.

I basically see it as this is a new product on the market that not many people are familiar with it. Of course there are going to be problems. What matters is how they handle the problems that arise and whether or not the hits keep coming or things settle down after a few inconveniences.

I would love to see the first roadsidetire change with one of these things on when the mechanic opens up the tire to find a giant LEGO block. That’s going to be a priceless expression I’m sure.

 

[Neal]

Word from Facebook post is NIRVC is suspending all sales and installations of Retrobands until further notice. The bolts are separating internally.

 

[MapNerd]

Yikes

 

[Akdare]

As I had Rettrobands installed in March, I just received this email from Brett Davis at NIRVC...it’s long, but worth a read.

IMPORTANT UPDATE FOR ALL RETTROBAND OWNERS Dear Rettroband Owner, For those of you whom I haven’t had the pleasure of meeting, my name is Brett Davis and I am the Founder and CEO of National Indoor RV Centers. I am also Co-Founder of Rettroband. For what it’s worth, I feel you should know I write all my own communications. Not our marketing department, and not our lawyers. I purchased my first coach in 1985. I have nine children and twenty six grandchildren. During those thirty five years, almost without exception, every time I’ve traveled I’ve had what I consider very precious cargo onboard in the form of my children and/or grandchildren. Needless to say, front tire blowouts have always been of paramount concern to me. Five years ago I met Robert Craig, Founder of Craig International Ballistics, when he was taking delivery of his coach from National Indoor RV Centers, and together we formed Rettroband. Craig International Ballistics is the largest supplier of armor to the Australian military, as well as eight other militaries around the world. Craig International Ballistic’s products range from body armor, to armored vehicles, to both fixed wing and rotary aircraft, and to vessels. Robert has thirty five years experience in manufacturing military grade armor and protective products for armored vehicles, including “run flat devices”. Robert’s and my desire was to develop a product, a “run flat device” which would free coach owners from the continual dread in the back of their minds of a front tire blowout. We both recognized the Motorhome market is a very small market, but in dire need of such a product. And, we both really desired to solve this problem. So, why am I writing you? A couple of my pet peeves over my thirty five years of RVing experiences are: Regardless of the number of times their products fail, or how widely known those failures are within the RVing community, the manufacturers almost always say “this is the first we’re hearing of this”. Whenever failures do occur, manufacturers tend to point up and down the supply chain trying to lay blame on someone else. These are only two of a myriad of frustrations I have personally experienced over my years of RVing, and which ultimately led to the founding of National Indoor RV Centers. When it comes to business I have always believed “if you have a problem, you put it up on the table so we all have a problem”. At National Indoor RV Centers we don’t hide issues, and we don’t duck from our customers. So, I am writing to inform you we have had several Rettroband failures recently, for a total of five Rettroband failures out of almost one thousand. While 5/1,000 is a very small percentage, in my opinion, one failure is one too many. We at Rettroband experienced our first failure on, none other than, September 11th, 2019. We immediately sent the failed Rettroband to the laboratory to determine the cause of the failure. The cause was found to be over tightening of the Rettroband due to improper installation. The next failure occurred June 21st, 2020, and the last three failures have been in the last three weeks which is prompting this communication. We have not received back the cause of the most recent failure from the lab yet as it just occurred a few days ago. However, it sure appears to have been over tightened as well, and is most distressing to me because we (NIRVC) installed it. I wish I had all the answers for this latest failure before writing this email, but I also didn’t want to delay in communicating what appears to be the issue and what we think the solution is. Immediately after determining the cause of the first failure, Robert started designing and engineering a solution, followed by molds, then production, and finally testing. I will try and paint a picture with words in hopes you’ll be able to visualize the problem, and therefore the solution. In our development of the product, which took 3.5 years to design, engineer, and test, Robert did extensive testing. I’ll share with you just a few of Robert‘s tests: Compression. Rettroband withstood 32,000 pounds of pressure before the Rettroband failed. Strength. On a tire testing machine acquired from Bridgestone by the Big Tyre Company, they took Rettroband up to 75.18mph and then instantly hit it with 10,000 pounds of pressure numerous times. Durability. We wanted to be certain a coach owner could safely drive to the next exit following a blowout. Below is a link to a video showing the Rettroband attached directly to the brake drum... no rim! The Rettroband has 6 tons (12,000 pounds) of weight on it, and is traveling at 45mph. FYI, the largest Alcoa aluminum rim is only rated to 10,500 pounds. As you will see, Rettroband is extremely durable, and more than capable of being driven on after a blowout. Remember, in a true blowout Rettroband will have the added benefits of being attached to a rim within a tire as compared to this video. Here is the link to the video: https://youtu.be/RmGGKxlHix0 Blowout. As many of you have seen before in the below video, we used a gas coach with a short wheelbase, and a very long overhang behind the drive axle. We also loaded the coach with ballast to the point we couldn’t get its speed above 65mph. While the test driver knew we were going to blow the tire, he didn’t know exactly when the tire would be blown. The drone shot at the 7:15 mark of the video captures the blowout from the exterior. Notice the coach doesn’t even wiggle. Then the interior camera shot at the 7:17 mark of the video captures the test driver’s hand on the steering wheel at the moment of the blowout. Notice again, the steering wheel doesn’t even wiggle. Here is the link to the video: https://youtu.be/ujVVWz-Wxjo Robert focused in testing on the pressure and compression associated with the centripetal force, and the sudden impact of a blowout. We knew it was critical during the installation of Rettrobands for the gearboxes to be centered, and tightened only until both halves touched. Preferably, we like to be able to slide a sheet of paper between the two halves. What we have found, unfortunately, is that third-party installers were using air wrenches or rattle guns, and over tightening the the gearboxes. Tightening beyond the ability to slide a piece of paper through where the two halves meet is incorrect, and we now know that apparently it may lead to Rettroband failures as the over tightening bows the two halves, and stretches the entire system causing it to work against itself. Now knowing the problem, as we now do, hopefully you’ll be able to visualize my explanation of the solution. Since “a picture is worth a thousand words” I’ll start with a series of pictures and explanations of each. Here is a drawing of the steel band which is inside the new Rettrobands:

The steel band is inside each of the halves which make up the complete Rettroband. The large metal pin the gearbox threads into, will now go through the both the hole in the polyurethane composite AND the steel band. The steel band is anchored to both the large metal pins in the same half of the Rettroband. Now as the gearboxes bring the two halves together the steel band will act as a torque brake mitigating the risk of over tightening. The steel band anchors the two other metal pins to each other in the event of over tightening, as opposed to the gearboxes pulling the pins through the polyurethane. Below is a picture of the steel band inside a polyurethane Rettroband. Notice how the large metal pin is no longer going through just the hole in the polyurethane, but it also goes through the steel band.

Below is a picture of the steel band inside a rubber Rettroband:

And finally, below is a picture showing the beginnings of a crack in the old Rettroband caused by over tightening. Once the crack has started we believe its travel can be accelerated in extreme heat. For example, one of the recent failures occurred during an outside temperature of 115 degrees, with pavement temperature of 150 degrees, and inside tire temperatures of almost 200 degrees. Hence, Robert’s testing of the new Rettrobands with the steel band inside have been performed this time around inside a kiln.

I hope I’ve been able to paint a picture for you of both the problem and the solution. The in-house testing of the new Rettroband is nearing completion. Following completion of our in-house testing, once again, actual road testing using explosive charges will be carried out at the Nevada Auto Testing Center (“NATC”). NATC is a certified track and where we test blowing tires at speed on a Motorhome. This testing was scheduled to have been done this past March, but due to the Coronavirus, NATC postponed our testing dates. We are currently scheduled to do our final round of testing at the NATC in the coming weeks. I’m sure the biggest question you are all asking yourselves right now is; what’s National Indoor RV Centers and Rettroband going to do about this? For this I’ll pull back the curtain a little. At National Indoor RV Centers, we’re in the business of making customers for life. To that end, one of our training programs is a mandatory “Book Club” meeting every Monday morning at 7:30am. In this meeting all our employees participate in real life customer service experiences, both inside and outside of our company, as we go through four books on customer service over, and over again. We stress treating a customer the way we would want to be treated if our roles were reversed. We emphasize “always doing what’s right regardless of the cost”. Additionally, Robert and I are concerned about what happens to your original Rettrobands when you need to replace your tires, or you sell your coach and the new owner needs to replace the tires. We will have no knowledge or control over how the new tire shop may reinstall the Rettrobands. Whether or not they will bother to follow the instructions. We are both the kind of men “who would rather sleep well, than eat well”. Rettroband was designed and engineered to keep you and your loved ones safe in the event of a blowout, and we will “practice what we preach” and stand behind the product or service we sell. We will be replacing the bands of all Rettrobands currently on the road at no cost to you our customer, and have ceased installations of the current design. (We won’t be replacing the gearboxes as they are not the problem, and we’ve never had one fail in either testing or in the market.) Also, upon completion of the testing and compliance at the NATC, we will begin mass production of the new redesigned Rettrobands. While around the clock production will be quick, shipping 20 tons will take 47 days at sea, and another 8 days to clear customs and be at our facilities. Once they are aboard the ship, and their arrival date is know, we will begin booking appointments to swap out your bands and rebalance your tires. In the meantime, I’m sure you’re wondering what happens should a Rettroband fail, and should you drive our coach while waiting on the replacement Rettrobands? Since I am not one of the five who experienced a Rettroband failure, I can’t speak to this firsthand. However, I can pass on what I’ve been told the experience felt like, and fortunately, one of the failures was captured on a dash camera. I’ve been told it felt “like a buckboard wagon ride” for about a quarter of a mile until they could get to the side of the road. Three of the failures described it as feeling “like their tire was severely out of balance”. Here again, I believe “a picture is worth a thousand words”, and you can make your own assessment. Here is the link to the dash camera video of one of the Rettroband failures: https://vimeo.com/438243665 Now as to the question of whether you should or shouldn’t drive your coach while waiting for your replacement bands? Here, I really can’t offer any advice, because it’s similar to asking “how long is a piece of rope”. However, I can and will offer my opinion. We can start with 1,000 Rettrobands currently on the road, and then make any assumption you’d like to make on the number of miles they’ve been driven on since the first installation sixteen months ago. I’m just “spitballing” here, but let’s say they’ve averaged 5,000 miles apiece, multiplied by 1,000 Rettrobands, would equal 5,000,000 miles, out of which five bands have failed without an accident or a fatality. Personally, I feel much safer driving with the existing Rettrobands than I do driving without them, or with the other competing “run flat” devices currently available on the market today. Please be sure, I will try to keep you updated on timing, as well as answer any questions as they arise. Please feel free to call, email, or text me. It may take a little time in responding, but I will get back to you. All the best, Brett Davis

Unsubscribe National Indoor RV Centers 498 E State Hwy 121 Lewisville, Texas 75057 United States (800) 250-6354

 

[sheridany]

I got the same email. I am glad they are stepping up and going to make it right.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

Well, you gotta say that Brett Davis is an up-front guy! Maybe a little lengthy in his message, but very straightforward. I like that, even though I am not a Retroband user. Hopefully, the redesign will solve the failure problem. This has got to be a costly problem for Retroband/NIRVC, along with a PR nightmare. Facing the issue head-on with customers, as Brett Davis did, is the most effective way of dealing with difficult news. Good luck to them.

TJ

 

[J&JD]

I’m very surprised that the developers didn’t consider that 3rd party personnel would be working on their device. imagine all the untrained tire installers out there that will be installing/uninstalling this equipment. The owners will almost have to be involved so that the installer follows correct procedures.

 

[TJ&LadyDi]

I'm thinking that this is a design flaw that needs to be corrected. Any product that requires the care and accuracy to install described by Brett Davis needs some mechanical limiters to reduce the chance of improper installation.

TJ

 

[redbaron]

The new liners make sense. I also appreciate that they are replacing all old style retrobands. That is amazing customer service.

 

[Kevin D Pem]

In my MH days I found that bus converters would trade tires every couple of years to cross country truckers because the trucker could save some money and use up the tire long before the tire would be considered unsafe. I am sure your 22.5s could find this afterlife today. Another economy view of such devices.

I would be more in favor of a self-inflator like that in a military hummer, than put something in the tire.

 

[MapNerd]

A self inflator wont help much in the event of a front-end blowout, which is what retro-bands were designed to address. I agree self-inflators would be nice, though they’re really more practical on overland vehicles where its common to change the tire pressure based on the terrain. If you’re getting much use out of a self-inflator in a MH, something is wrong.

 

[redbaron]

I sent Brett this link, and suggested that he do the same thing with the new retroband. He responded that he is going to look into the feasibility.

Here's What It Looks Like Inside Your Tires As You Drive - Jalopnik

It’s springtime! Time to start working on your project car, learn a new wrenching skill, discover what everything is under the hood (and how it works), or just spruce up your daily driver. All month, we’ll be looking back at our best informative, maintenance and DIY articles from Jalopnik’s near...

jalopnik.com