MOD Silverleaf Charge Bridge Limitation / Workaround

[Neal]

Good news according to Newmar, no Silverleaf on the DutchStar

Probably shouldn't be in this thread then...please start a new thread as needed to resume the content if unrelated to the OP.

 

[Joe Dutchstar]

Here is info on Li-BIM 225

https://www.precisioncircuitsinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/00-10041-26x-Li-BIM-Rev1.pdf

 

[Kevin D Pem]

Kevin, we picked it up in November, technically last year, .
Unfortunately this has been our experience with new RVs In the first year.
The first few months of small issues that get resolved with warranty.
Consequently we go on short trips for the first six months to sort out all this stuff.
Once the initial problems settled down the RV should be good for five years or so of travel.
This one will probably be the last for us.
Good news according to Newmar, no Silverleaf on the DutchStar. So I don’t have that headache.

that's been my experience with RVs as well. But then, what I buy, has truly gone past it's expiration date, so I must start replacing everything!!!

 

[MarkMaxPayne]

Not sure why Newmar would install a BIM designed for lead acid to lead acid chemistry Bridging? (Maybe this is the problem??)

Maybe for same reason they factory installed legacy lead-acid era Xantrex solar controllers that were not compatible with lithium batteries even on their factory installed Lithionics optioned coaches pre Feb 2023 (resulting in a recent service bulletin being released last summer to remove & replace them with an upgraded solar controllers that are indeed lithium compatible). <grin>

I have the same question myself now about requiring a DC to DC charger even though the factory installed battery joiner solenoids. When I upgraded my Lithionics from 2 batteries to 3 through the dealer/factory (for a 960 Ah lithium total) I am still questioning the whole old-school battery joiner solenoid approach used on my 2023 New Aire. Very curious how things sort out with your install & inquiries to Newmar.

Victron has a new Orion TR 12/12 50 coming out, but there is the question of how to best wire in to bypass SilverLeaf trying to connect the batteries when it thinks it should while still allowing for the combiner switch on the dash to still work if needed to start the rig. Given our altenator size, am I concerned for no reason and the combiner solenoid is just fine? I rather be safe than sorry...

Best,
-Mark

 

[Joe Dutchstar]

Newgle has some useful information on this topic. Hopefully up to date.

 

[MarkMaxPayne]

I have the same question myself now about requiring a DC to DC charger even though the factory installed battery joiner solenoids. When I upgraded my Lithionics from 2 batteries to 3 through the dealer/factory (for a 960 Ah lithium total) I am still questioning the whole old-school battery joiner solenoid approach used on my 2023 New Aire. Very curious how things sort out with your install & inquiries to Newmar.

Victron has a new Orion TR 12/12 50 coming out, but there is the question of how to best wire in to bypass SilverLeaf trying to connect the batteries when it thinks it should while still allowing for the combiner switch on the dash to still work if needed to start the rig. Given our altenator size, am I concerned for no reason and the combiner solenoid is just fine? I rather be safe than sorry...

The YouTuber "Our Journey In Myles" posted a series on upgrading their older rig to Lithionics 960 Ah Lithium at NIRVC-Atlanta:

In that video he sourced and added the Lithionics Automatic Combiner Relay Controller. For an older system without SilverLeaf managing the combining of batteries for alternator charging, I get it.

However, as an owner of a 2023 Newmar rig, as I look at the ACR Logic Table on their data sheet (https://lithionicsbattery.com/wp-co...cs-Battery-ACR-Applications-Overview-RevE.pdf) I'm finding that it acts very similar to Newmar's SilverLeaf system and its factory battery combiner solenoid/relay. In fact, the enter and exit conditions for the status of HOUSE_CHARGING look like they are specific to old Lead Acid charging tables. Yes, the $HACV command can modify the house battery voltage to be different than the House < 13.8V trigger, but... If that is Lithionic's answer, I guess I'm not feeling so bad about what Newmar does straight out of the factory for those who have SilverLeaf. If only Lithionics was as chatty as BattleBorn when it comes to answering questions vs. insisting consumers only talk with their dealers (who don't know the answers either).

Best,
-Mark

 

[redbaron]

Has anyone figured out a solution for the Alternator charging lithium house batteries?

By replacing the solenoid with a DC to DC charger, i am losing the ability to charge the chassis battery from electric.

Curious if the proper solution has already been identified.

 

[Neal]

I assume this is a side effect of not going with the LiBIM?

 

[SteveMA]

When I went to LiFePo I removed the Newmar charge bridge and replaced with 2x victron Orion 12/12-30 - one going each way. That way can protect the alternator by limiting the current TO house LiFePo and have the chassis>House Orion boost voltage to 14.2 for Li and the other Orion keeps the Chassis batteries charged at a limit of 13.8 float to keep the chassis batteries charged.
Has worked great for 18 months. I am changing Both Orion 12/12-30 out for Orion 12/12-50 XS as the XS has advanced communications and reporting

 

[redbaron]

When I went to LiFePo I removed the Newmar charge bridge and replaced with 2x victron Orion 12/12-30 - one going each way. That way can protect the alternator by limiting the current TO house LiFePo and have the chassis>House Orion boost voltage to 14.2 for Li and the other Orion keeps the Chassis batteries charged at a limit of 13.8 float to keep the chassis batteries charged.
Has worked great for 18 months. I am changing Both Orion 12/12-30 out for Orion 12/12-50 XS as the XS has advanced communications and reporting

This sounds like the right design.

For input side of the chassis charger, did you just bridge directly to the house battery bank?

Is there a trigger to prevent charging when boondocking, and using the house side?

 

[SteveMA]

The Orions will allow for some logic - I have the Chassis>house set to respect and follow the indication the engine is not running (done by sensing alternator output voltage at the Orion input - this took a bit of trial&error while I came to understand how to set the voltages) so the Orion logic turns off the Chassis>House charge any time engine is shut off. Effectively this let the chassis always charge (via House>Chassis Orion) without any drain on chassis. In the end, I ran 1 new #6 from battery bay to the electrical bay and added 30A "snap breakers" at each end so that I could isolate either direction and then linked them at the top of the feed from Chassis to the original charge bridge relay. After 18 months I have never turned off these snap breakers so I suspect I could have just used the single line between the same bays that already existed. I sat around and thought about this for a while when 1st installing and wanted to play safe with the current on the #6 wire, however the current flow will follow the higher voltage so really there should not be a way to overload the #6 with the bidirectional current flow... Also, while the 12/12-30's were bluetooth control only they did allow you to turn their output off. so Boondocking and not charging the chassis batteries is always possible by shutting down House>Chassis. The new Orion Xs are on the Victron bus so they are now cloud accessable to shut down if ever needed. Once I finished all solar boon docking at Albuquerque Ballon Fiesta for 5-6 days in October was no problem and ran the generator very little (for a very small bit of Air conditioning) as we had some clouds and rain, but generally the solar keeps everything fully charged.

I will push some photos here soon. I put in a bunch of Victron Lynx distributors and Lynx 1000A shunt with the 1840 AH of LiFePo and 1800w of solar (Victron MPPT 250/100 VE-Can) and now that the Orions 12/12-30's will become 2x Orion XS 12/12-50's everything will be on VE-Can, VE-Bus or Can-Bus to allow for control and monitoring remotely.